I think that everybody who supports the use of nuclear weapons should look at these pictures and listen to the experiences by the survivors of the blast about what it was actually like just afterwards and think critically about if any creature deserves to be subjected to that
Horrific, yes. However, estimates for the total number of people killed by Imperial Japan during World War II (primarily 1937–1945) range from roughly 20 to 30 million or higher across the Asia-Pacific theater, and they refused unconditional surrender until 2 atomic bombs stopped them killing who knows how many more.
I don't support the use of nuclear weapons (and I'm 100% sure that should Iran get it, they'd wipe Israel off the map) but I honestly think Japan got a better "deal" than eastern Europe by getting two nukes, surrendering, and not being conquered by Russia and becoming a satellite of the USSR.
They haven't suffered decades of communism and have seen an extremely successful recovery from WWII in a short amount of time.
The reason they sided with the nazis --and two nukes were a harsh price to pay for having picked the wrong side-- is because they knew Russia would come after Japan.
The two nukes stopped Russia's thirst for Japan on the spot.
We'd be living in a very different world if the two nukes didn't happen and it's not clear at all Japan would still be japanese.
P.S: I've got family in Japan and I've been many times and I'll probably be going on vacation there next summer. I love Japan.
People who say this gloss over the horrific fire bombing of Tokyo, etc (so bad B-29 crews could smell the bodies burning from thousands of feet above...). Hiroshima and Nagasaki were no worse than that.
I always wonder if people who make this argument would be against nuking Berlin or other major German cities if it would have stopped the European war much earlier.
> I think that everybody who supports the use of nuclear weapons should […]
I think that everybody—pro and con—should read 140 Days to Hiroshima: The Story of Japan's Last Chance to Avert Armageddon by David Dean Barrett who uses Japanese sources (including Cabinet minutes) to look at Japan's decision making process before, during, and after the bombs were dropped.
The first bomb was dropped on August 6. On August 9 the Japanese War Cabinet met in the morning and got confirmation that it was a new type of weapon—and decided to not surrender. They then got news around 13:00 that in the morning a second, similar bomb was dropped, and they—could not decide to surrender or not. The War Cabinet was dead-locked 3–3, so they called in the full Cabinet and it was also dead-locked, and so they called in the Emperor, who broke the dead-lock and decided to 'stop the war'.†
And even after the Emperor himself made the call, there were still elements of the Japanese military that wanted to keep fighting and attempted a coup:
So if it took two bombings (and the Emperor's personal involvement) I'm not sure how people can think zero bombings would have allowed the war to end. (The Japanese had already known for a year before the bombings that they could not win militarily).
The other two options were blockading Japan, causing mass starvation, or an invasion:
> […] and think critically about if any creature deserves to be subjected to that
I would think critically about if any creature deserves to be subjected to the being ruled by Imperial Japan given the Rape of Nanking and other things:
I've never seen the ones from the ground, truly an apocalyptic sight if I've ever seen one. I can't imagine what it would be the to be person actually taking that shot. I bet they are forever changed. Thank you for posting! a welcome change if only for a minute from the deluge of openAI posts.
The fascination with this is more than a little disturbing.
Somewhat reassuring to see that many comments here interpret the images as a call to eliminate nuclear weapons. But it's hard to image our current ape man species moving away from mass murder as an international policy implementation.
The propensity of our primate species for self annihilation doesn't pose much hope for extended survival.
Innate murderous tendencies that may have encouraged the caveman's survival will surly be what wipes us out...
Impressive photographs, especially the ones on the ground. It is no wonder that they capitulated soon after the second one. The statistical reality of the war must have been frightening but the visual impact must have been overwhelming. To stare up at a pillar of cloud representing an unprecedented form of destruction that ends cities in a single bomb. Terrifying.
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[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 31.9 ms ] threadThey haven't suffered decades of communism and have seen an extremely successful recovery from WWII in a short amount of time.
The reason they sided with the nazis --and two nukes were a harsh price to pay for having picked the wrong side-- is because they knew Russia would come after Japan.
The two nukes stopped Russia's thirst for Japan on the spot.
We'd be living in a very different world if the two nukes didn't happen and it's not clear at all Japan would still be japanese.
P.S: I've got family in Japan and I've been many times and I'll probably be going on vacation there next summer. I love Japan.
I think that everybody—pro and con—should read 140 Days to Hiroshima: The Story of Japan's Last Chance to Avert Armageddon by David Dean Barrett who uses Japanese sources (including Cabinet minutes) to look at Japan's decision making process before, during, and after the bombs were dropped.
* https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51089656-140-days-to-hir...
* https://www.nationalww2museum.org/about-us/notes-museum/140-...
The first bomb was dropped on August 6. On August 9 the Japanese War Cabinet met in the morning and got confirmation that it was a new type of weapon—and decided to not surrender. They then got news around 13:00 that in the morning a second, similar bomb was dropped, and they—could not decide to surrender or not. The War Cabinet was dead-locked 3–3, so they called in the full Cabinet and it was also dead-locked, and so they called in the Emperor, who broke the dead-lock and decided to 'stop the war'.†
And even after the Emperor himself made the call, there were still elements of the Japanese military that wanted to keep fighting and attempted a coup:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyūjō_incident
So if it took two bombings (and the Emperor's personal involvement) I'm not sure how people can think zero bombings would have allowed the war to end. (The Japanese had already known for a year before the bombings that they could not win militarily).
The other two options were blockading Japan, causing mass starvation, or an invasion:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Downfall
> […] and think critically about if any creature deserves to be subjected to that
I would think critically about if any creature deserves to be subjected to the being ruled by Imperial Japan given the Rape of Nanking and other things:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanjing_Massacre
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
† The Japanese do not use the word "surrender" in their announcement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirohito_surrender_broadcast
> It is an impressive sight.
The fascination with this is more than a little disturbing.
Somewhat reassuring to see that many comments here interpret the images as a call to eliminate nuclear weapons. But it's hard to image our current ape man species moving away from mass murder as an international policy implementation.
The propensity of our primate species for self annihilation doesn't pose much hope for extended survival.
Innate murderous tendencies that may have encouraged the caveman's survival will surly be what wipes us out...