Back in the day, I had an early pre-release Xbox One Devkit and mouse and now I realize it was likely outfitted with Dazzle camouflage - but we just called it zebra.
I have seen a few Erlkönigs (German term for camouflaged pre-production models) IRL. On the Autobahn, they are not that rare. You get to see one for every few thousand kilometers driven.
This is an odd article that tries to elevate some random grunt in the field painting their truck white stripes to grand battlefield strategy in the face of autonomous AI killer drones. Neither are the latter real nor is the former actually in widespread use, and it obviously is not effective, not least because the drones it's talking about barely have the resolution at altitude to resolve that detail.
>not least because the drones it's talking about barely have the resolution at altitude to resolve that detail.
the drones are used in groups. That is for example how we have a lot of footage of the drones hitting targets. The drone observers or especially the intelligence drone guiding the group would frequently carry much better camera than the actual kamikaze drones (especially when it comes to high-resolution IR cameras which are expensive). In the fully autonomous AI mode the drone is usually given small target area where to operate (in particular because they aren't yet smart enough to differentiate Ukranians from Russians, so you'd like to confine their operations to a limited area and not letting it into the totally free hunt) and regular 4K camera is sufficient there. Again, there is a lot of footage on YT an TG.
You are mixing more things. There's lots of ISR drones flying around, from DJIs at 50-150m altitude to bigger fixed wing platforms at 1000-1500m. Their point is to find targets, do BDA and monitor, but not autonomously; it's guys sitting in Discord calls and entering data into BMS.
Most kamikaze drones are FPVs. They can not do anything autonomously because at $300 a pop in a totally GNSS denied environment, after 10 seconds past takeoff none of them have the faintest clue where they are. That's why you see all that footage, they just skip the part where for the first 20 minutes some guy with goggles is navigating them. The bigger fixed wing kamikaze drones like the Hornet above might have better onboard options like VO or triangulating radio beacons, but by all the evidence they are still guided by operators and triggered to dive manually. The biggest issue for all these systems is maintaining their video data link; if they were truly totally autonomous, nobody would bother.
If anyone here is into drones, manufactures, ideas, or wants to either use their drone piloting skills or learn how to pilot drones. Ukraine is recruiting for positions.
Just beware that being part of the drone team isnt some comfy safe job far from danger, they are the most hated type of unit currently since they are deciding large part of this war (and any future war it seems). I see videos of ie glide bombs used by both sides targetting specifically positions of drone teams.
If all this is clear and you go ahead, all the power to ya, fighting evil in this world is highly commendable.
> fighting evil in this world is highly commendable
Except more often than not it is fighting not evil but sleeping civilians who don't support this war, which is not even war in the strict sense of the word, but a deliberate meatgrinder set up to devour as much human beings on both sides as its orchestrators can get away with, for as long as possible.
Is there any evidence suggesting that Ukraine is targeting civilians?
And what 'orchestrators' exactly do you think benefit from sending their soldiers through a meat grinder? Yes, Russia (not Ukraine) has done a lot of that, but you seem to think that getting their own soldiers killed was their goal..?
My evidence is waking up in the night from the sound of explosions in a city 150 km from the active front line, and then reading about a civilian building hit in the morning. Sometimes even walking in person to see the aftermath.
I don't have any hard evidence that drones that hit Russian civilian buildings are even launched from Ukraine. What is known for a fact, is that they often belong to the same waves of attacks that hit industrial and military facilities. And for a fact, certain remote operators are responsible for that.
See, most will find my POV heavily tinfoil-headed, but try to understand it: I don't consider Russians and Ukrainians as two sides of the conflict. The real sides are some third party in control of military forces and narratives of both sides vs the populace of both countries. This is a war of false flag operations that are always blamed by that 3rd party on either Russian or Ukrainian side. A war of psychological terror, resource and manpower exhaustion.
For example, I don't see any plausible explanation how drones with a radar cross-section of a Cessna are able to fly from Ukraine 1500-2000 km deep into Russia, other than either being turned the blind eye to by the Russian air defense, or straight up launched and controlled by entities within the country.
That it is pretty possible, can be understood by in depth reading on 1999 explosions in Moscow and Volgodonsk which inaugurated Putin's rule, and peculiar details like that slip when Zhirinovsky spoke about the Volgodonsk explosion before the event proper. Also, the prevented explosion in Ryazan (look up "Ryazan sugar"). And by mere living in Russia and noticing things around.
There is always an SMS warning in advance of every wave of attacks, but drones fly unimpeded and it is only in the vicinity of towns and cities that the air defense kicks in, often sending "the debris" neatly into residential buildings.
No attacks on key infrastructure were ever made that would cut war logistics on both sides, both sides never attempted to attack any key (like, really key, not some sacrifice rooks or bishops) figure of its "enemy" Khomeini or Maduro style, in fact, nothing is ever made that should have been made in a real war. Only slow, deliberate, controlled smoldering. Fighting over strategically meaningless villages and towns with losses in many tens of thousands, only to back down and then try to recapture with same losses multiple times.
All in all it takes living here and boiling in it, nothing I wrote could be obvious or even entertained as possible to a foreigner who doesn't follow the news daily and only sees the broadest strokes presented by foreign mass media.
As to what the orchestrators benefit - it's multifaceted, but goes along the lines of slaughtering the battle-worthy passionaries who would otherwise prove dangerous to the globalist plans for CBDC, total digital control and surveillance in slavic countries, displacing them with meek migrant workers, terrorizing the remaining populace into complete apathy and acceptance of whatever new normals those plans set, training military AI on real-world bloody datasets, limiting the freedom of movement by deliberately created fuel shortages, which makes well for 15-minute cities, etc, etc per WEF, IMF, World Bank, Blackrock and whatever scum there is still in the shadow.
I am an American and what you are saying is 100% correct. You're just about 10 levels above the knowledge/understanding of the highly propagandized geeks who post here. Quoted for truth:
> I don't consider Russians and Ukrainians as two sides of the conflict. The real sides are some third party in control of military forces and narratives of both sides vs the populace of both countries. This is a war of false flag operations that are always blamed by that 3rd party on either Russian or Ukrainian side. A war of psychological terror, resource and manpower exhaustion.
It's all staged, all coordinated internationally by a secret club (Luciferians) who control all "opposing sides", all world governments and religions, exactly as you said. Everything happens according to a script, and everyone is controlled by the same script. The war is a big meat grinder designed to kill off as many worthy men and women as possible in a slow burn, just as trench warfare did in WW1.
All of this is leading to the next global war, in which they plan to crush the USA exactly as they did to Germany. I am the sort of person they plan to eliminate somewhere along the way, as are you. They won't be getting me; I hope they don't get you.
In your country are they trying to set the stage for a future fake "alien invasion", just like they have been doing here for a long time?
After the men and women of all powerful nations are destroyed and last vestiges of freeom are replaced by enslavement to a central world government, that's when the perpetual "war against the aliens" begins, as their new form of population control.
> In your country are they trying to set the stage for a future fake "alien invasion", just like they have been doing here for a long time?
They have hard time with pushing even the current stages of the agenda.
The launch of the wildly, and I mean wildly unpopular CBDC, ahem, digital rouble was postponed multiple times, but this time "the real deal" is scheduled by the Russian Central Bank for this autumn.
The selling narrative about convenience, modernity and helping fight corruption has failed miserably, and now they will force it using the fuel crisis at hand - which has all the potential to become a food crisis if (when) the autumn harvest gets disrupted.
They have already been rolling out QR codes for buying gas at odd/even days of week, by the first digit of the registration plate, etc, and the "government" messenger, also wildly unpopular but shoved down the throat to all kinds of civil servants, is on standby to become the only distribution channel for said QRs.
Here it's the opposite--they have been very quiet and cautious about pushing CBDC, flying low under the radar, moving slowly and carefully. They just eliminated the penny (1 cent coin) and have the nickel (5 cent) in their crosshairs next. Cash usage is still strong in my rural area, but card usage is continually growing.
There was a mysterious "coin shortage" which suddenly arose during COVID for unexplained reasons, which was pushed by the big chain stores. Apparently locally owned stores, credit unions, etc didn't get that memo, as they never did mention any "coin shortage." Even at the big stores, there was no problem paying with cash and receiving change. It's clear what they're doing.
More and more self-checkout registers are card-only now, with only one cash machine. Eventually that will be gone when the timing is right.
It's nice to hear that the agenda has been unpopular in your area vs. the masses of clueless sheep walking into the slaughterhouse here, but unfortunately they will get their way in the end regardless. Here all NWO goals will be achieved by complete destruction of the country and government and crushing of all resistance afterward. In Russia however, who are planned to be victors in the war, in some ways it will be worse.
One of my great grandfathers knew that WW2 was a lie and that everything was propaganda, so he decided to "opt out" of the draft. He pretended to be sick, but they didn't believe him and put him in a brig where he sat out the war. Otherwise he would have fought in the Pacific theater and would have likely died in agony in some island battle, as they had planned for him. Instead he came back home in disgrace to a victorious nation, and was branded a coward and loser for the rest of his life.
When Russia is victorious it will likewise be bad luck to have opposed the government or avoided the war, for decades to come. Be warned. It may be best to escape to Siberia and disappear into the forest for years, emerging decades later all surprised like you didn't even know there was a war, lol.
For my part, I saw all this coming many years ago and am well off grid at this point. So they won't be drafting me into this one either, and there won't be anyone left alive to shame me about it later.
I’m so fucking embarrassed to be Polish and hear this populism bullshit from Nawrocki and any other compromised russian shill.
You know who killed our people? The fucking russians. Remember when the bad guys came from Berlin? The other bad guys came from Moscow. Don’t forget that.
———
For anyone unsure what this throwaway account is talking about: when he says “not too long ago” in a discussion about a war that is happening literally today, he’s talking about 1943. If this isn’t a bad faith argument from an antagonist, then I don’t know what is.
Stop. The whole thing is ridiculous from simple historical perspective. Poland was razed down, pillaged, 'visited', 'saved', enriched and whole host of other euphemisms over the course of its hundreds of years of various types of existence by a rather long list of conquerors.
<< when he says “not too long ago” in a discussion about a war that is happening literally today, he’s talking about 1943. If this isn’t a bad faith argument from an antagonist, then I don’t know what is.
Sigh, it is not bad faith. If anything, it is bad faith to pretend past did not happen.
Please assume that the people you are talking to you are not ignorant.
In this case, I believe I am substantially more up to date with both Ukrainian and Polish politics than you are. From your comments, it appears your knowledge on the topic is superficial at best.
Hmm, lets assume you know more than anyone on this board regarding Ukrainian and Polish politics ( you may well do that ). But this only confers knowledge upon you, but not, for lack of a better term, wisdom and understanding. I do not suggest I am a paragon of the latter ( or the former for that matter ), but I know just enough to know evasion ( 'Nobody is pretending this didn’t happen. Least of all the Ukrainians.' ), when I see one.
Polish estimates are closer to 20k, btw. And Polish forces executed thousands of Ukrainians as well during the same events.
Also don't forget russians executed 22k Polish prisoners of war in 1940 and lied about it for decades.
Germans killed millions of Polish citizens - but they are good people now, not like Ukrainians who are holding back russians? Russians who are casually invade neighbors once in a while and committing atrocities
Hmm, it is mildly fascinating that it has to be said. Germans in government typically don't celebrate the adherents to the events that Poles were subjected to. Ukrainian government on the other hand uses lets call it something of an ambiguous framing to make it charitable. Similarly, Russia was saving Poles from WW2 ( all while effectively enforcing its particular brand of crazy upon the land ).
Now, Ukraine is absorbing Russia's onslaught ( and that is something Poles benefit from even if they don't admit it ), but lets be clear. They ( Ukraine ) are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
If Russian civilians stopped sleeping and took up arms against their government, then maybe this war could end. The people responsible are all members of the Russian government, and Russian people's apathy (or in many cases support for the war) enables them.
Let's see how you'll manage to stop your own governments from implementing total digital panopticon via Chat Control etc, from mongering wars half the equator away from your country, and everything else you won't like in what future holds for the West and the world in general.
That is just a wikipedia page. Russia could have easily set that up. But now that we discussed it people can choose what to verify and what to believe.
I suppose the answer for anyone living in Gaza would be don't be a human and don't live there. And definitely don't use a mobile phone if you happen to be a human living in Gaza.
A drone isnt terribly hard, or costly. It is a solved problem. The interesting bits are the software and even those are "easy" -- more so with "ai" in the aid of development. Ukraine isn't paying for "testing" either, they just send things to the front and try them against Russians.
Dazzle camouflage doesn't work on killer drones. Even civilian LLMs recognize that the object on the photograph is a military truck, except they can't explain why it's been painted to resemble a zebra. Most dedicated machine vision models easily lock in on a boxy shape moving along a road. If anything, the stripes make the trucks easier to see.
The real answer to killer drones is a CIWS that can cover 2pi steradians and attack multiple drones at the same time, because otherwise it will be just swarmed by drones that quietly glide towards it, engines off, from several directions before entering the final dive.
Which is total overkill for the job. It very well might cost more to fire a Phalanx at the drone than the value of the drone. And the Phalanx has IIRC 20 seconds of fire before it needs extensive downtime for reloading.
They need something in the realm of a big automatic shotgun.
Depends on the target, some large ISR drones totally need big 20mm rounds but you scale the system down to machine guns and shotguns and build out integrated air defence systems with electronic actively scanning radar and sensors to detect and track the threats to kill
The way the US military works, throwing rolls of toilet paper at the drone from the deck of the shop is likely more expensive than the drone said toilet paper is hurling towards.
A CIWS can only fire at one direction at a time, so 2+1 drones has an extremely high chance of taking it out for around $2500 or less. CIWS is multiple magnitudes more expensive.
We're moving into the "waves of drones with orchestration" phase and expensive directional systems won't survive that, and cost on the drone swarms is still drastically lower. Won't matter if you added ten ciws and ten fire-finding radars.
Modern dedicated AA gun systems claim multi-km engagement ranges against small drones, and 60 degree/second slew rates. A drone capable of beating that engagement time would be better described as a guided missile, and will certainly not cost $2500. The flaws in gun systems are in the cost required for good coverage, not their effectiveness against targets that do enter their engagement ranges.
CIWS might be effective against fixed wing since they fly mostly in straight lines, it won’t work effectively against multirotors that can quickly change direction and maneuver around, now add swarm of them, and it will overwhelm CIWS. That of course, assuming it was detected which is a whole process by itself.
You’re talking about dodging bullets or shrapnel here. Source on that a multi rotor has that level of manoeuvrability while also carrying a lethal payload and enough battery for a viable engagement range?
/r/CombatFootage will show that even with strong explosive payloads the modern quads used by Ukraine are surprisingly mobile. They’re incredibly quick and manoeuvrable still, much to my surprise.
I do not actually suggest watching those videos, they are NSFL.
There’s a pretty big gulf between “very quick” and “capable of dodging air bursting autocannon rounds without sacrificing forward momentum”.
Incidentally, modern drone footage is actually not nearly as bad as stuff from earlier in the war. Increased lethality of the FPVs means much fewer conscripts deciding to take a 5.45mm retirement plan.
Right. There is no way a drone can dodge a stream of bullets. They essentially arrive instantaneously at the drone from its perspective. A bullet from these flies at 1km/s and there are a lot of bullets. The bigger problem is getting a good lock on the drone but if you can track it any AA cannon will turn it into mashed drone.
Pre-programmed evasion. Give the drone a flight path, it's expected to position itself randomly within a certain distance of that flight path. At longer ranges it's feasible to dodge a bullet that way (which is why soldiers do a highly evasive path against a sniper) and even at short ranges if you can beat the tracking system it doesn't matter if you can beat the bullet.
That’s not the problem. These machines only have so much thrust, and are only aerodynamic in one direction. Sudden high-speed lateral acceleration is very costly from an energy budget perspective. Randomly dodging around bleeds off speed and may actually reduce survivability by increasing the time taken to cross the danger zone. This is made worse by most of the time the drone needs to aim for a weak spot or critical system to do damage, so terminal guidance is already fairly constrained. You don’t see drone pilots trying to jink around because the best move is to punch the accelerator and try to minimise the time your opponent has to react.
I can’t quantify the “viable engagement range” you had, but in our tests we had around 50min endurance, around 35lb payload, and 14in body but with larger props. Now larger props do impact prop acceleration to a degree, so it’s not “racing” level maneuverability, but good enough to dodge shotgun shots, and again, this is all with the presumption that you know where it is and from where it’s coming and heading.
I have seen a few Ukrainian drone videos that cross over onto regular subreddits, and this subreddit is far more graphic. Do not take this 'NSFL' lightly.
> It's important to note that the risk of misuse is significantly lower for individuals who have never had typical speech patterns
How to Hide from Killer Drones:
It's important to note that that the risk of being riddled with drone bullets is significantly lower for individuals who have never had human physical characteristics.
This title scared me, not for myself but more thinking about how kids will probably need to learn these things next. We are such strange 'intelligent' creatures who have figured out everything but not to be at peace with each other.
After WW II German u-boat captains said they were never particularly bothered by dazzle camouflage. Ten years from now I have a feeling we'll get the same information from drone operators.
Not just distance, class (ie type of ship), speed and direction too.
Having seen some freaky good examples, I'm not sure how it wouldn't work? It might not matter, but it seems to work (and I can't see how it wouldn't matter)?
For example, you see a ship on the horizon, you can't tell the class - so whether it's likely to be in a group, or if it's a ship previously reported in this area - you can't tell the direction, etc ... you observe the ship, now you can plot the direction, speed. The ship fires on you, now you likely know the class.
Dazzle isn't meant to hide. Dazzle is meant to confuse a human trying to estimate course and speed in order to send an unguided torpedo at it. You need to look at hit rates to judge effectiveness.
By "drone operators" I meant organizations that operate drones, not necessarily pilots. I would be very surprised to discover this sort of paint scheme threw off drones in any meaningful way. I've seen video footage of drones automatically identifying and bracketing vehicles painted this way.
> The probable result will be an arms race pitting increasingly sophisticated machine vision systems against cleverer and cleverer methods for fooling them.
FPV drones are a thing. In, fact, I suspect most drones in the NATO-Russia war are FPV rather than fully autonomous.
* It supplies most ammunition and arms and much of the equipment.
* It funds most of the war effort, including arms & ammunition, salaries, covering some of the civilian budget etc. Total expenditure by "Western" countries in the period 2014-2026 is 380 Billion USD [1] and the vast majority of that is by NATO; some by other US allies.
* Its members train Ukrainian forces.
* It imposes wide sanctions against Russia (along with a few other US allies).
* Ukraine has already signed off half of all of its material resources to the US, the lead state of NATO [2].
* A negotiations process in Istanbul, having reached a draft agreement which would have concluded the war, in early 2022, was vetoed by NATO, or at least the US and the UK. [3]
And this is in the context of NATO's long-standing strategy of expanding eastwards towards Russia, which includes introducing Ukraine into its sphere of influence and possibly inducting it as a member at some point.
You're not exactly wrong, but it's disingenuous to paint the expansion of a defensive alliance of independent nations in the same light as annexation of sovereign nations by military force.
For accuracy, replace "NATO" with "countries united in condemnation of Russia's invasion".
The iron curtain pushed west on tanks; it's being pushed back by choice. Russia inoculated citizens against its own propaganda by disappearing their friends and loved ones. Read Solzhenitsyn.
NATO is an offensive alliance, and its activities in this century have demonstrated this. Unless you mean "defensive" as in the now-renamed US "Department of Defense".
> of independent nations
Also, many of its members are only partially independent, when it comes to global strategic matters. And that's not getting into whether EU member nations are in fact independent; I can introduce you to many greek people who would say otherwise... Many Brittons also consider their state to be somewhat subservient to the US on such matters.
> annexation of sovereign nations by military force.
Hey, that consideration didn't bother Ukraine in taking control of Crimea when the USSR broke up...
To be less facetious though: Ukraine's sovereignty after the 2014 coup, and certainly by 2022, was also imperfect. To the level of Biden as US VP exercising veto power over who serves as their attorney general.
But certainly, the annexation of the Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts is such an annexation from a technically sovereign state. With Donetsk and Lugansk, Russia did not annex; those areas seceded from Ukraine, declared independence and fought a protracted war against the Ukrainian Army for some years. They also faced quite a bit of regular shelling targeting the civilian population, from their presumptive sovereign. Eventually, albeit under Russian influence, they asceded into the Russian Federation.
Be that as it may - like I said, NATO is involved to the extent that it should rightly be seen as a proxy war of NATO against Russia.
> With Donetsk and Lugansk, Russia did not annex; those areas seceded from Ukraine, declared independence and fought a protracted war against the Ukrainian Army for some years.
The European Court of Human Rights investigated this in their verdict relating to the shootdown of the Malaysian airliner. The court found no evidence of any separatist movement, any seccession or independence. Instead, the court found that the whole thing had been under Russian military command from the get-go, carried out by a mix of Russian military, operatives of special services and local collaborators acting under direct orders from Russians.
Why do you see that institute as the authority on the secession of Donetsk and Lugansk? Both in principle, and considering how the legal procedure you refer to was purely ex-parte, by an institute of an entity belligerent to Russia, so that both the court and the parts involved were all hostile to it.
> Russians did the same in the 1940s*
So, going back to the cold war is insufficient, you want to make analogies to Stalin's USSR in the 1940s? That's almost all the way to Godwin's law.
Still, you are making my point, in that the war in Ukraine is perceived as NATO's war, or the US-and-EU's war, to fend off the evil Russians like in the old days.
> Why do you see that institute as the authority on the secession of Donetsk and Lugansk?
It is one of the most respected courts on the planet, and the verdict is long and detailed when it comes to describing the smokescreen Russians deployed to hide their role. All the key facts are nicely laid out, notable people and events are mentioned.
> So, going back to the cold war is insufficient, you want to make analogies to Stalin's USSR in the 1940s? That's almost all the way to Godwin's law.
Not at all. There are more recent examples too, from the 1990s:
Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are just some of the oldest examples of this. At this point, you have to be intentionally trolling to take these "people's republics" propped up by Russian military with any credibility.
> Still, you are making my point, in that the war in Ukraine is perceived as NATO's war, or the US-and-EU's war, to fend off the evil Russians like in the old days.
No, the level of US and European involvement does not warrant such framing. North Korea has gone further than any of them and deployed actual troops by tens of thousands to the frontlines in support of Russia, and yet nobody calls it a North Korean-Ukrainian war because that would be a poor description of the nature of this war.
> NATO is certainly participating:
> * It supplies most ammunition and arms and much of the equipment.
NATO is a coordination office. Its purpose is to provide the higher levels of command structure to coordinate multi-national forces when activated. It does not own ammunition, arms nor other equipment, nor does it decide where they go (except in wartime). Similarly, NATO has not imposed any sanctions against Russia, because it does not control anything.
Instead, the most important decision-making platform is the so-called Ukraine Defense Contact Group, which consists of 57 countries, of which only 32 are members of NATO.
> * A negotiations process in Istanbul, having reached a draft agreement which would have concluded the war, in early 2022, was vetoed by NATO, or at least the US and the UK.
Not true. At the time, most of Ukraine's supporters were pushing them toward any kind of deal with Russians at the expense of Ukraine's interests, until the discovery of Bucha massacre made that pressure untenable. The whole narrative that NATO, the US, or Boris Johnson personally forced Ukraine to continue fighting comes from selective quoting of David Arakhamia, a member of Ukraine's negotiating team.
> And this is in the context of NATO's long-standing strategy of expanding eastwards towards Russia
There is no such strategy and no such "context" except in the Russian state propaganda. Central and Eastern European countries have had to fight tooth and nail to gain entry. One of the best examples of this were Poland's threats to sink Clinton's re-election campaign with Polish-American votes if he tried to block Poland's entry into NATO.
Many countries are sending aid to Ukraine, as well as some are sending aid and troops to russia. You should call it WW3, where NATO is fighting Axis powers (russia, NKorea, Iran).
>> Ukraine has already signed off half of all of its material resources to the US, the lead state of NATO
That is not what signed document is about, you should try to read the content instead of what russia today said about it.
>> A negotiations process in Istanbul, having reached a draft agreement which would have concluded the war, in early 2022, was vetoed by NATO, or at least the US and the UK.
No agreement was reached as russia wanted a surrender. putin should have taken a deal back then and keep control of the occupied lands.
ps: I hope you are paid well for spreading russian narratives.
If only it was simple rage bait. As a member of this thing we call "civilization" I can't help but wonder how the hell we got to this point. #rhetorical
“Attack drones” have been around for basically as long as civilisation itself. It’s just a recent development that they’ve been made out of metal and not meat. So we never got to this point, we’ve been at this point the entire time.
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[ 0.19 ms ] story [ 55.2 ms ] threadhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazzle_camouflage
the drones are used in groups. That is for example how we have a lot of footage of the drones hitting targets. The drone observers or especially the intelligence drone guiding the group would frequently carry much better camera than the actual kamikaze drones (especially when it comes to high-resolution IR cameras which are expensive). In the fully autonomous AI mode the drone is usually given small target area where to operate (in particular because they aren't yet smart enough to differentiate Ukranians from Russians, so you'd like to confine their operations to a limited area and not letting it into the totally free hunt) and regular 4K camera is sufficient there. Again, there is a lot of footage on YT an TG.
Most kamikaze drones are FPVs. They can not do anything autonomously because at $300 a pop in a totally GNSS denied environment, after 10 seconds past takeoff none of them have the faintest clue where they are. That's why you see all that footage, they just skip the part where for the first 20 minutes some guy with goggles is navigating them. The bigger fixed wing kamikaze drones like the Hornet above might have better onboard options like VO or triangulating radio beacons, but by all the evidence they are still guided by operators and triggered to dive manually. The biggest issue for all these systems is maintaining their video data link; if they were truly totally autonomous, nobody would bother.
https://usforces.army/en
If all this is clear and you go ahead, all the power to ya, fighting evil in this world is highly commendable.
Except more often than not it is fighting not evil but sleeping civilians who don't support this war, which is not even war in the strict sense of the word, but a deliberate meatgrinder set up to devour as much human beings on both sides as its orchestrators can get away with, for as long as possible.
And what 'orchestrators' exactly do you think benefit from sending their soldiers through a meat grinder? Yes, Russia (not Ukraine) has done a lot of that, but you seem to think that getting their own soldiers killed was their goal..?
I don't have any hard evidence that drones that hit Russian civilian buildings are even launched from Ukraine. What is known for a fact, is that they often belong to the same waves of attacks that hit industrial and military facilities. And for a fact, certain remote operators are responsible for that.
See, most will find my POV heavily tinfoil-headed, but try to understand it: I don't consider Russians and Ukrainians as two sides of the conflict. The real sides are some third party in control of military forces and narratives of both sides vs the populace of both countries. This is a war of false flag operations that are always blamed by that 3rd party on either Russian or Ukrainian side. A war of psychological terror, resource and manpower exhaustion.
For example, I don't see any plausible explanation how drones with a radar cross-section of a Cessna are able to fly from Ukraine 1500-2000 km deep into Russia, other than either being turned the blind eye to by the Russian air defense, or straight up launched and controlled by entities within the country.
That it is pretty possible, can be understood by in depth reading on 1999 explosions in Moscow and Volgodonsk which inaugurated Putin's rule, and peculiar details like that slip when Zhirinovsky spoke about the Volgodonsk explosion before the event proper. Also, the prevented explosion in Ryazan (look up "Ryazan sugar"). And by mere living in Russia and noticing things around.
There is always an SMS warning in advance of every wave of attacks, but drones fly unimpeded and it is only in the vicinity of towns and cities that the air defense kicks in, often sending "the debris" neatly into residential buildings.
No attacks on key infrastructure were ever made that would cut war logistics on both sides, both sides never attempted to attack any key (like, really key, not some sacrifice rooks or bishops) figure of its "enemy" Khomeini or Maduro style, in fact, nothing is ever made that should have been made in a real war. Only slow, deliberate, controlled smoldering. Fighting over strategically meaningless villages and towns with losses in many tens of thousands, only to back down and then try to recapture with same losses multiple times.
All in all it takes living here and boiling in it, nothing I wrote could be obvious or even entertained as possible to a foreigner who doesn't follow the news daily and only sees the broadest strokes presented by foreign mass media.
As to what the orchestrators benefit - it's multifaceted, but goes along the lines of slaughtering the battle-worthy passionaries who would otherwise prove dangerous to the globalist plans for CBDC, total digital control and surveillance in slavic countries, displacing them with meek migrant workers, terrorizing the remaining populace into complete apathy and acceptance of whatever new normals those plans set, training military AI on real-world bloody datasets, limiting the freedom of movement by deliberately created fuel shortages, which makes well for 15-minute cities, etc, etc per WEF, IMF, World Bank, Blackrock and whatever scum there is still in the shadow.
> I don't consider Russians and Ukrainians as two sides of the conflict. The real sides are some third party in control of military forces and narratives of both sides vs the populace of both countries. This is a war of false flag operations that are always blamed by that 3rd party on either Russian or Ukrainian side. A war of psychological terror, resource and manpower exhaustion.
It's all staged, all coordinated internationally by a secret club (Luciferians) who control all "opposing sides", all world governments and religions, exactly as you said. Everything happens according to a script, and everyone is controlled by the same script. The war is a big meat grinder designed to kill off as many worthy men and women as possible in a slow burn, just as trench warfare did in WW1.
All of this is leading to the next global war, in which they plan to crush the USA exactly as they did to Germany. I am the sort of person they plan to eliminate somewhere along the way, as are you. They won't be getting me; I hope they don't get you.
In your country are they trying to set the stage for a future fake "alien invasion", just like they have been doing here for a long time?
After the men and women of all powerful nations are destroyed and last vestiges of freeom are replaced by enslavement to a central world government, that's when the perpetual "war against the aliens" begins, as their new form of population control.
They have hard time with pushing even the current stages of the agenda.
The launch of the wildly, and I mean wildly unpopular CBDC, ahem, digital rouble was postponed multiple times, but this time "the real deal" is scheduled by the Russian Central Bank for this autumn.
The selling narrative about convenience, modernity and helping fight corruption has failed miserably, and now they will force it using the fuel crisis at hand - which has all the potential to become a food crisis if (when) the autumn harvest gets disrupted.
They have already been rolling out QR codes for buying gas at odd/even days of week, by the first digit of the registration plate, etc, and the "government" messenger, also wildly unpopular but shoved down the throat to all kinds of civil servants, is on standby to become the only distribution channel for said QRs.
God bless you, my friend.
There was a mysterious "coin shortage" which suddenly arose during COVID for unexplained reasons, which was pushed by the big chain stores. Apparently locally owned stores, credit unions, etc didn't get that memo, as they never did mention any "coin shortage." Even at the big stores, there was no problem paying with cash and receiving change. It's clear what they're doing.
More and more self-checkout registers are card-only now, with only one cash machine. Eventually that will be gone when the timing is right.
It's nice to hear that the agenda has been unpopular in your area vs. the masses of clueless sheep walking into the slaughterhouse here, but unfortunately they will get their way in the end regardless. Here all NWO goals will be achieved by complete destruction of the country and government and crushing of all resistance afterward. In Russia however, who are planned to be victors in the war, in some ways it will be worse.
One of my great grandfathers knew that WW2 was a lie and that everything was propaganda, so he decided to "opt out" of the draft. He pretended to be sick, but they didn't believe him and put him in a brig where he sat out the war. Otherwise he would have fought in the Pacific theater and would have likely died in agony in some island battle, as they had planned for him. Instead he came back home in disgrace to a victorious nation, and was branded a coward and loser for the rest of his life.
When Russia is victorious it will likewise be bad luck to have opposed the government or avoided the war, for decades to come. Be warned. It may be best to escape to Siberia and disappear into the forest for years, emerging decades later all surprised like you didn't even know there was a war, lol.
For my part, I saw all this coming many years ago and am well off grid at this point. So they won't be drafting me into this one either, and there won't be anyone left alive to shame me about it later.
God bless you too, friend!
I’m so fucking embarrassed to be Polish and hear this populism bullshit from Nawrocki and any other compromised russian shill.
You know who killed our people? The fucking russians. Remember when the bad guys came from Berlin? The other bad guys came from Moscow. Don’t forget that.
———
For anyone unsure what this throwaway account is talking about: when he says “not too long ago” in a discussion about a war that is happening literally today, he’s talking about 1943. If this isn’t a bad faith argument from an antagonist, then I don’t know what is.
<< when he says “not too long ago” in a discussion about a war that is happening literally today, he’s talking about 1943. If this isn’t a bad faith argument from an antagonist, then I don’t know what is.
Sigh, it is not bad faith. If anything, it is bad faith to pretend past did not happen.
In this case, I believe I am substantially more up to date with both Ukrainian and Polish politics than you are. From your comments, it appears your knowledge on the topic is superficial at best.
Also don't forget russians executed 22k Polish prisoners of war in 1940 and lied about it for decades.
Germans killed millions of Polish citizens - but they are good people now, not like Ukrainians who are holding back russians? Russians who are casually invade neighbors once in a while and committing atrocities
Now, Ukraine is absorbing Russia's onslaught ( and that is something Poles benefit from even if they don't admit it ), but lets be clear. They ( Ukraine ) are not doing this out of the goodness of their hearts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E2%80%93Ribbentrop_Pac...
It's a Ukrainian site with English selected. You couldn't figure that out?
Who is that?
That is just a wikipedia page. Russia could have easily set that up. But now that we discussed it people can choose what to verify and what to believe.
Except the Ukraine kind of went out and built it.
People in this thread keep talking about DJI, and off the shelf US drones.
Ukraine has move so far beyond commercial products (but still in use) that it's laughable.
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ukraines-drones-can-n...
https://www.kyivpost.com/post/60152
A drone isnt terribly hard, or costly. It is a solved problem. The interesting bits are the software and even those are "easy" -- more so with "ai" in the aid of development. Ukraine isn't paying for "testing" either, they just send things to the front and try them against Russians.
https://www.science.org/content/article/zebra-stripes-confus...
The real answer to killer drones is a CIWS that can cover 2pi steradians and attack multiple drones at the same time, because otherwise it will be just swarmed by drones that quietly glide towards it, engines off, from several directions before entering the final dive.
The Phalanx defense systems you see on naval vessels.
They need something in the realm of a big automatic shotgun.
Remember, in WWII Carrots were the secret weapon used to defeat the night fighters.
[Todo: Add link to Poe's Law]
Also can't use CIWS near troops and fpvs.
S1-SUN and equivalent are the answer there.
CIWS is just best for a different threat model.
We're moving into the "waves of drones with orchestration" phase and expensive directional systems won't survive that, and cost on the drone swarms is still drastically lower. Won't matter if you added ten ciws and ten fire-finding radars.
Again, great on a ship.
The Army did a bunch of different testing on this recently.
I do not actually suggest watching those videos, they are NSFL.
Incidentally, modern drone footage is actually not nearly as bad as stuff from earlier in the war. Increased lethality of the FPVs means much fewer conscripts deciding to take a 5.45mm retirement plan.
/s
They’re looking for camouflaged military trucks.
What they’re not looking for is a convoy of Zambonis painted in Toronto Maple Leafs white and blue.
/r/CombatFootage (NSFL)
> It's important to note that the risk of misuse is significantly lower for individuals who have never had typical speech patterns
How to Hide from Killer Drones:
It's important to note that that the risk of being riddled with drone bullets is significantly lower for individuals who have never had human physical characteristics.
[0] https://research.google/blog/restoring-speaker-voices-with-z...
Having seen some freaky good examples, I'm not sure how it wouldn't work? It might not matter, but it seems to work (and I can't see how it wouldn't matter)?
For example, you see a ship on the horizon, you can't tell the class - so whether it's likely to be in a group, or if it's a ship previously reported in this area - you can't tell the direction, etc ... you observe the ship, now you can plot the direction, speed. The ship fires on you, now you likely know the class.
FPV drones are a thing. In, fact, I suspect most drones in the NATO-Russia war are FPV rather than fully autonomous.
You can call it NATO-Iran, or NATO-NKorea war as well.
Ukraine-Nkorea war? At least there were direct contacts between their forces.
* It supplies most ammunition and arms and much of the equipment.
* It funds most of the war effort, including arms & ammunition, salaries, covering some of the civilian budget etc. Total expenditure by "Western" countries in the period 2014-2026 is 380 Billion USD [1] and the vast majority of that is by NATO; some by other US allies.
* Its members train Ukrainian forces.
* It imposes wide sanctions against Russia (along with a few other US allies).
* Ukraine has already signed off half of all of its material resources to the US, the lead state of NATO [2].
* A negotiations process in Istanbul, having reached a draft agreement which would have concluded the war, in early 2022, was vetoed by NATO, or at least the US and the UK. [3]
And this is in the context of NATO's long-standing strategy of expanding eastwards towards Russia, which includes introducing Ukraine into its sphere of influence and possibly inducting it as a member at some point.
----
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_financial_aid_to_Ukrai...
[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93United_States_...
[3] - https://responsiblestatecraft.org/2022/09/02/diplomacy-watch...
For accuracy, replace "NATO" with "countries united in condemnation of Russia's invasion".
The iron curtain pushed west on tanks; it's being pushed back by choice. Russia inoculated citizens against its own propaganda by disappearing their friends and loved ones. Read Solzhenitsyn.
NATO is an offensive alliance, and its activities in this century have demonstrated this. Unless you mean "defensive" as in the now-renamed US "Department of Defense".
> of independent nations
Also, many of its members are only partially independent, when it comes to global strategic matters. And that's not getting into whether EU member nations are in fact independent; I can introduce you to many greek people who would say otherwise... Many Brittons also consider their state to be somewhat subservient to the US on such matters.
> annexation of sovereign nations by military force.
Hey, that consideration didn't bother Ukraine in taking control of Crimea when the USSR broke up...
To be less facetious though: Ukraine's sovereignty after the 2014 coup, and certainly by 2022, was also imperfect. To the level of Biden as US VP exercising veto power over who serves as their attorney general.
But certainly, the annexation of the Zaporizhia and Kherson oblasts is such an annexation from a technically sovereign state. With Donetsk and Lugansk, Russia did not annex; those areas seceded from Ukraine, declared independence and fought a protracted war against the Ukrainian Army for some years. They also faced quite a bit of regular shelling targeting the civilian population, from their presumptive sovereign. Eventually, albeit under Russian influence, they asceded into the Russian Federation.
Be that as it may - like I said, NATO is involved to the extent that it should rightly be seen as a proxy war of NATO against Russia.
The verdict: https://hudoc.echr.coe.int/?i=001-244292
Why do you see that institute as the authority on the secession of Donetsk and Lugansk? Both in principle, and considering how the legal procedure you refer to was purely ex-parte, by an institute of an entity belligerent to Russia, so that both the court and the parts involved were all hostile to it.
> Russians did the same in the 1940s*
So, going back to the cold war is insufficient, you want to make analogies to Stalin's USSR in the 1940s? That's almost all the way to Godwin's law.
Still, you are making my point, in that the war in Ukraine is perceived as NATO's war, or the US-and-EU's war, to fend off the evil Russians like in the old days.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abkhazia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia
Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania are just some of the oldest examples of this. At this point, you have to be intentionally trolling to take these "people's republics" propped up by Russian military with any credibility.
No, the level of US and European involvement does not warrant such framing. North Korea has gone further than any of them and deployed actual troops by tens of thousands to the frontlines in support of Russia, and yet nobody calls it a North Korean-Ukrainian war because that would be a poor description of the nature of this war.This phrasing, referring to the Maidan in 2014 as a "coup" is reliable indicator of pro-Russia crankery.
> With Donetsk and Lugansk, Russia did not annex; those areas seceded from Ukraine, declared independence
Yep, here is more of it.
Instead, the most important decision-making platform is the so-called Ukraine Defense Contact Group, which consists of 57 countries, of which only 32 are members of NATO.
Not true. At the time, most of Ukraine's supporters were pushing them toward any kind of deal with Russians at the expense of Ukraine's interests, until the discovery of Bucha massacre made that pressure untenable. The whole narrative that NATO, the US, or Boris Johnson personally forced Ukraine to continue fighting comes from selective quoting of David Arakhamia, a member of Ukraine's negotiating team. There is no such strategy and no such "context" except in the Russian state propaganda. Central and Eastern European countries have had to fight tooth and nail to gain entry. One of the best examples of this were Poland's threats to sink Clinton's re-election campaign with Polish-American votes if he tried to block Poland's entry into NATO.>> Ukraine has already signed off half of all of its material resources to the US, the lead state of NATO
That is not what signed document is about, you should try to read the content instead of what russia today said about it.
>> A negotiations process in Istanbul, having reached a draft agreement which would have concluded the war, in early 2022, was vetoed by NATO, or at least the US and the UK.
No agreement was reached as russia wanted a surrender. putin should have taken a deal back then and keep control of the occupied lands.
ps: I hope you are paid well for spreading russian narratives.