> “We even did a sensitivity study to see if the range is reduced in very cold climates, and we found that, even in the most unfavorable conditions, EVs still reduce emissions by a substantial amount,” Miotti says.
the range is so bad that he couldn’t even finish the thought about range
that’s hilarious and I’m an EV driver, in warm and sunny southwest though
My experience - in the Nordics, but this is transferable - is they are also much nicer to own and drive. I don’t know anyone who went electric and then went back. The generation who went electric a few years ago is now on their second or third electric car. The makes and models in favour is changing (cue tangent on Tesla brand death in Europe) but the power source choice is not. So as more people get one, I expect their market share to just climb and climb.
Unless things have changed, when I looked a couple of years ago, I couldn't make the math math. The cost difference outweighed the savings, IIRC, even if we assumed electricity to be free.
The bigger problem, though, was that the EV we were considering (a Prius) was scarce. So even though I couldn't make the alleged price make sense … well, if there's no supply, then the price may as well be $∞.
So IDK, since that lack of supply also seems to suggest other people disagree (or put utility to the ecological aspects).
How do they account for the cost of having to rent ICE vehicles for road trips that do not suit EVs (some do, and some do not)? Do they factor in the cost of insurance, which some say is much higher for their EVs?
I have owned PHEVs and like them quite a bit, but if I'd bought them new I still wouldn't have reached the payback period. It seems that a PHEV typically costs $12k more than the ICE version, so the payback period is quite long (I think I estimated it to be 50k miles, assuming you charge for free at work, and gas is $5/gallon).
EVs and PHEVs can be great for some people, and some may even save money with them (maintenance is blessedly low). But I find it unlikely that for "most" US drivers, they would save money (and of course they would save on emissions, this is kind of a useless thing to add to the headline).
Why would you rent ICE for road trip tho? It's so incredibly inconvenient, noisy, poor performing and constant headache of even making there due to poor reliability. With occasional chance of burning or poisoning your family with fumes.
The overall calculation is very personal to each household.
Do you even need a car?
Do you live in a house or an apartment?
If you're in an apartment, is there car parking with charging infrastructure?
If you're in a house, do you own it or are you renting?
Do you have solar panels?
How long is your daily drive?
How often do you need to travel further than the car's range?
How much can the car recharge overnight?
Can you plug the car in anywhere to charge overnight?
What public charging infrastructure is nearby?
What rate are you charged for electricity?
I'm in a house with solar and battery and have had a 2014 Nissan Leaf for nearly two years. It costs $11k, and in that time has saved us around $2,500 in petrol. We've since purchased another EV, replacing a petrol family car, both of which have about the same range with a 'full tank', except the EV costs about $5 to go from empty to full whilst the petrol car was about $70. We've only had the new one about 3 months, so I can't speak to reliability over an extended period. Both cars are charged overnight just at 10A, 240V, no fast charge and so far they cover our normal daily usage no worries.
I'm aware that I'm lucky in that my situation seems to be a perfect use-case for EVs.
(I'm also not in the US, and so the recent EV was cheaper or at least comparable to equivalent petrol cars; someone mentioned a 'payback period', in my case it doesn't apply).
I personally think hyping emissions as a benefit for drivers is a case in total misunderstanding of human motivations and desires. It's not a benefit for drivers. It's a benefit for everyone else who only has to breath the brake dust off the EV instead of the brake dust plus exhaust. The benefit is not captured by the driver so doesn't matter to the driver. The people that care about the concept of emissions almost universally don't care about actual emissions, they care about the flexing and social standing being able to claim zero emissions gives them in their social circle. It matters not if the car actually has zero emissions or if the manufacturer is pulling a Volkswagen and cheating to those guys.
The selling point for EVs is the much nicer ride they now produce (much quieter interior, much better acceleration, usually much better technology package) and the potentially much cheaper operation depending on your driving situation.
I am an example of the new electric car buyer. I test drove a toyota crown and a toyota bz and the bz surprised me with how much drastically better it was to drive. I then did the math on operating it and vs my 12 year old SUV it will save me between 3 and 5 thousand a year on fuel costs and probably another few hundred on maintenance because I now have 3 kids and drive 25k - 30k kms a year vs 10k kms when I bought the suv. If the battery actually last 10 years I will likely save 30-50 thousand on op costs so it was a no brainer to go electric. If the battery pricing improves and the terrible charging infra improves, when I go to replace my second car in five years I will probably go electric there too, mostly depending on the charging infra since I still do some longer inter city/province driving for which the bz will be a pain in western Canada.
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[ 0.26 ms ] story [ 13.8 ms ] threadthe range is so bad that he couldn’t even finish the thought about range
that’s hilarious and I’m an EV driver, in warm and sunny southwest though
The bigger problem, though, was that the EV we were considering (a Prius) was scarce. So even though I couldn't make the alleged price make sense … well, if there's no supply, then the price may as well be $∞.
So IDK, since that lack of supply also seems to suggest other people disagree (or put utility to the ecological aspects).
I have owned PHEVs and like them quite a bit, but if I'd bought them new I still wouldn't have reached the payback period. It seems that a PHEV typically costs $12k more than the ICE version, so the payback period is quite long (I think I estimated it to be 50k miles, assuming you charge for free at work, and gas is $5/gallon).
EVs and PHEVs can be great for some people, and some may even save money with them (maintenance is blessedly low). But I find it unlikely that for "most" US drivers, they would save money (and of course they would save on emissions, this is kind of a useless thing to add to the headline).
Do you even need a car?
Do you live in a house or an apartment?
If you're in an apartment, is there car parking with charging infrastructure?
If you're in a house, do you own it or are you renting?
Do you have solar panels?
How long is your daily drive?
How often do you need to travel further than the car's range?
How much can the car recharge overnight?
Can you plug the car in anywhere to charge overnight?
What public charging infrastructure is nearby?
What rate are you charged for electricity?
I'm in a house with solar and battery and have had a 2014 Nissan Leaf for nearly two years. It costs $11k, and in that time has saved us around $2,500 in petrol. We've since purchased another EV, replacing a petrol family car, both of which have about the same range with a 'full tank', except the EV costs about $5 to go from empty to full whilst the petrol car was about $70. We've only had the new one about 3 months, so I can't speak to reliability over an extended period. Both cars are charged overnight just at 10A, 240V, no fast charge and so far they cover our normal daily usage no worries.
I'm aware that I'm lucky in that my situation seems to be a perfect use-case for EVs.
(I'm also not in the US, and so the recent EV was cheaper or at least comparable to equivalent petrol cars; someone mentioned a 'payback period', in my case it doesn't apply).
The selling point for EVs is the much nicer ride they now produce (much quieter interior, much better acceleration, usually much better technology package) and the potentially much cheaper operation depending on your driving situation.
I am an example of the new electric car buyer. I test drove a toyota crown and a toyota bz and the bz surprised me with how much drastically better it was to drive. I then did the math on operating it and vs my 12 year old SUV it will save me between 3 and 5 thousand a year on fuel costs and probably another few hundred on maintenance because I now have 3 kids and drive 25k - 30k kms a year vs 10k kms when I bought the suv. If the battery actually last 10 years I will likely save 30-50 thousand on op costs so it was a no brainer to go electric. If the battery pricing improves and the terrible charging infra improves, when I go to replace my second car in five years I will probably go electric there too, mostly depending on the charging infra since I still do some longer inter city/province driving for which the bz will be a pain in western Canada.