> If you express something, it should have a constructive purpose.
I feel like trying to make any expression constructive is one of those 'nice in theory' but also 'not a thing that has ever or will ever be done by any human being, because it's an insane inhumane thing to practice' ideals.
You cannot make every expression of opinion constructive. Take the case of this post. There is no need for constructive criticism or expression here, because the people doing this are not doing it out of good will. It then follows that any use of energy to provide that constructive expression is an unnecessary waste of goodwill.
You would be naive to expect anything else. Corporations only exist to make profit. They will never take an action that risks that.
Some people, for some inexplicable reason, believe that companies like Google who often voice support for left wing politics do that for any other reason than that it's profitable.
Google relies on (corrupt) collaboration with the US government so they will never disobey their orders to parrot your political beliefs.
You can make too much of this. Countries regularly have different names for foreign or shared places. The "English Channel" is "La Manche", Cologne is Köln. Like the English language, it's pretty much down to "that's what I call it". If people continue to call it "Lake Ontario" that's what it will be.
It's a country's leader petulantly ordering their entire country to call a lake by a new name that wrongly implies it belongs to them, which it doesn't, in order to spite their main trading partner because they rejected a trade deal that would massively harm them.
Going through those, it looks as if only about 50% stuck, mostly from World War II, so here's hoping. I'm not sure if using the name is in any way enforced?
That is not the point. Are you trying to minimize the phenomenon and cause and root? The point is, the actions taken by the appointed, what they reveal, the reactions from other parts, what they reveal, what will come next.
The disagreeing part better formulate an argument.
The title of this article implies they changed it before being forced/asked. As stupid as the whole thing is, the executive order was signed. This article is just about how the government’s own maps aren’t updated yet.
This wasn’t a case of Google updating based on a mere suggestion or guessing at what our mad king wants. It’s still silly, it’s still petty, but this article reads (and is titled) like clickbait to me. Instead we should focus on the absurdity of the EO.
Interestingly, Executive Order 12770, signed in 1991 by President George H.W. Bush, established the metric system as the official system of measurement in the USA.
Google still defaults to miles for some reason.
I get that these cases have their differences, but I think it’s reasonably thought provoking and worth at least a single moment of attention if we’re already on the topic.
Not really. Metric Conversion Act Of 1975 would be a better reference, but it didn’t go that far, only saying that Metric is preferred, and the choice is voluntary.
The EO you referenced is about what units the federal government uses, not setting an official system of measurement for the entire US.
it's actually the same thing - T's EO only governs how the Fed Gov references Lake Ontario on its maps; it doesn't force private companies to use the name (it has no authority to do so)
That's exactly what every executive order is: it's what the federal government uses. It's not binding for anyone else. It doesn't have the power of law. Google is under absolutely no obligation to do this. They do it explicitly to appease Trump.
The EO changes the official name of the geographical feature as recognized by the US government.
All the large map providers ingest a data feed from the USG (and other governments for other localizations) which names various geographical and place entities. That data goes through a pipeline (basically a CI pipeline) to build the map artifact and tiles served to users.
Google just has a particularly good and low latency pipeline. Google got there in a couple days. Apple will get there in a week or two. The USGS will get there in god-knows-when. Mapquest has said they’re not going to update the name, which presumably means their pipeline is old and creaky.
The article itself even acknowledges that the USGS GNIS database has already been updated to reflect the change. Unless someone at Google manually edits the entity, it will be automatically renamed with no human input (although, for very large, highly visible entities the validation stage may block the build and flag it for manual review)
It's an executive order, not a law. There is absolutely no reason for Google, MapQuest or anyone else to change the name of the lake in their map. Google chooses to do so, MapQuest chooses not to. That says nothing about the speed of their pipeline, and everything about their desire to appease the government.
Your own response isn't even internally consistent.
> The USGS will get there in god-knows-when.
> The article itself even acknowledges that the USGS GNIS database has already been updated to reflect the change.
Yes, both USGS and the Department of the Interior's executive leadership have been replaced by this Administration with Trump lackeys who fell over themselves to boast in a memo just how quickly they'd made the change.
> Mapquest has said they’re not going to update the name, which presumably means their pipeline is old and creaky.
But "whatever your local country calls it" isn't always clear! There are plenty of places where the official name differs from the commonly-used name.
For example, in The Netherlands the official name for The Hague is 's-Gravenhage - but in practice virtually everyone calls it Den Haag, including the government itself. But it won't be on any official document like a passport. Similarly 's-Hertogenbosch is also very often abbreviated to Den Bosch, and calling it by its full name in casual conversation would sound quite pompous.
So what to do? Use the official name everywhere? Use the name people use in practice everywhere? Google Maps went with the colloquial name for Den Haag and the official name for 's-Hertogenbosch, so clearly there is no one-size-fits-all policy being applied.
The same applies to the current renaming. Sure, Trump and a handful of diehard cultists will call it "Lake America", but the US population as a whole is undoubtedly going to stick with the Lake Ontario they know and love for the foreseeable future.
So does Google Maps follow what the country calls it, or what the president calls it?
Trade negotiations aside, and probably an unpopular opinion, but as someone who grew up on the US side of that Great Lake with friends and relatives on both sides of the border, I'm actually digging that a Great Lake is now the namesake for the United States, and especially that one.
Normally one might not envision New York as having spectacular scenery, but the Thousand Islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Islands) also contain some of the most beautiful natural landscapes that straddle national borders anywhere, and both of our great nations should be proud to share these beautiful areas.
I'm so tired of this revisionist history bullshit. Trump isnt doing this because its good for anyone except himself and his band of bullies who's only goal is to overthrow anything democratic and instill a lifetime fascist leader.
Users on the Kagi forum are reporting mixed results. Some US users still see Lake Ontario, some Canadian users see Lake America. They also seem to agree that it should be classified as incorrect behavior.
As of this morning I started seeing new results. Now, a search for "Lake Ontario" returns both names.
As a Kagi customer, I find this was just about the worst way to handle it. I pay for a search engine because I want searches to cater to MY need for accurate and unbiased information. If a search engine can decide that someone else' political expedience is more important, there's a fundamental problem.
In case it was remotely in doubt, Kagi just demonstrated that they have the ability to change the labels that Mapbox gives them. It's fine if there was some implementation glitch if it comes with an explanation.
Currently I'm watching Kagi silently change results. If they're doing it for Lake Ontario, how can I be confident they aren't doing it with other search results?
I've been keeping an eye on the USGS "Recent Earthquakes" web-based app (it has a PWA as well) and reloading it once a day or so. But even though I heard the USGS mention rapidly updating the name, perhaps on X, the "Recent Earthquakes" map is still indicating Lake Ontario as of right now.
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[ 0.28 ms ] story [ 9.9 ms ] threadIf you express something, it should have a constructive purpose. Sheerly reactive curses rarely fit in that.
I feel like trying to make any expression constructive is one of those 'nice in theory' but also 'not a thing that has ever or will ever be done by any human being, because it's an insane inhumane thing to practice' ideals.
You cannot make every expression of opinion constructive. Take the case of this post. There is no need for constructive criticism or expression here, because the people doing this are not doing it out of good will. It then follows that any use of energy to provide that constructive expression is an unnecessary waste of goodwill.
What do you think this very writer is, a demiGod?
> any use of energy to provide that constructive expression is
A duty.
> not doing it out of good will
That subset is just noise, we go on with the debate.
And your point does not exempt anyone from constructiveness.
Just goes to show how on board those corporations are with this sort of narcissistic authoritarianismm
Some people, for some inexplicable reason, believe that companies like Google who often voice support for left wing politics do that for any other reason than that it's profitable.
Google relies on (corrupt) collaboration with the US government so they will never disobey their orders to parrot your political beliefs.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_politically_motivated_...
Going through those, it looks as if only about 50% stuck, mostly from World War II, so here's hoping. I'm not sure if using the name is in any way enforced?
The disagreeing part better formulate an argument.
This wasn’t a case of Google updating based on a mere suggestion or guessing at what our mad king wants. It’s still silly, it’s still petty, but this article reads (and is titled) like clickbait to me. Instead we should focus on the absurdity of the EO.
MapQuest has chosen to stick with "Lake Ontario", just as they did with "Gulf of Mexico", and are seeing app downloads surge as a result.
Google still defaults to miles for some reason.
I get that these cases have their differences, but I think it’s reasonably thought provoking and worth at least a single moment of attention if we’re already on the topic.
The EO you referenced is about what units the federal government uses, not setting an official system of measurement for the entire US.
Well, actually, no.
The EO changes the official name of the geographical feature as recognized by the US government.
All the large map providers ingest a data feed from the USG (and other governments for other localizations) which names various geographical and place entities. That data goes through a pipeline (basically a CI pipeline) to build the map artifact and tiles served to users.
Google just has a particularly good and low latency pipeline. Google got there in a couple days. Apple will get there in a week or two. The USGS will get there in god-knows-when. Mapquest has said they’re not going to update the name, which presumably means their pipeline is old and creaky.
The article itself even acknowledges that the USGS GNIS database has already been updated to reflect the change. Unless someone at Google manually edits the entity, it will be automatically renamed with no human input (although, for very large, highly visible entities the validation stage may block the build and flag it for manual review)
> The USGS will get there in god-knows-when.
> The article itself even acknowledges that the USGS GNIS database has already been updated to reflect the change.
Yes, both USGS and the Department of the Interior's executive leadership have been replaced by this Administration with Trump lackeys who fell over themselves to boast in a memo just how quickly they'd made the change.
> Mapquest has said they’re not going to update the name, which presumably means their pipeline is old and creaky.
No, it means no such thing.
The one with the modified executive seal on it?
It's unfathomable to me that there are no videos on YouTube that show their modified seal for private profit on b ibles and beer pong sets.
For example, in The Netherlands the official name for The Hague is 's-Gravenhage - but in practice virtually everyone calls it Den Haag, including the government itself. But it won't be on any official document like a passport. Similarly 's-Hertogenbosch is also very often abbreviated to Den Bosch, and calling it by its full name in casual conversation would sound quite pompous.
So what to do? Use the official name everywhere? Use the name people use in practice everywhere? Google Maps went with the colloquial name for Den Haag and the official name for 's-Hertogenbosch, so clearly there is no one-size-fits-all policy being applied.
The same applies to the current renaming. Sure, Trump and a handful of diehard cultists will call it "Lake America", but the US population as a whole is undoubtedly going to stick with the Lake Ontario they know and love for the foreseeable future.
So does Google Maps follow what the country calls it, or what the president calls it?
Historically, Lake America has made an enormous difference to the development of the early United States, along with the St. Lawrence Seaway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Lawrence_Seaway).
Normally one might not envision New York as having spectacular scenery, but the Thousand Islands (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Islands) also contain some of the most beautiful natural landscapes that straddle national borders anywhere, and both of our great nations should be proud to share these beautiful areas.
And if it's showing up as "Lake America" inside of the US on Kagi Maps, it's most likely because of Mapbox, and not Kagi.
https://kagifeedback.org/d/11381-lake-ontario-showing-up-wit...
As of this morning I started seeing new results. Now, a search for "Lake Ontario" returns both names.
As a Kagi customer, I find this was just about the worst way to handle it. I pay for a search engine because I want searches to cater to MY need for accurate and unbiased information. If a search engine can decide that someone else' political expedience is more important, there's a fundamental problem.
In case it was remotely in doubt, Kagi just demonstrated that they have the ability to change the labels that Mapbox gives them. It's fine if there was some implementation glitch if it comes with an explanation.
Currently I'm watching Kagi silently change results. If they're doing it for Lake Ontario, how can I be confident they aren't doing it with other search results?
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?extent=42.09007...