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Ask HN: Where are the famous black programmers?

12 points by batgaijin ↗ HN
When people talk of the skewed population for programmers and CS students it always focuses on the man/woman divide.

Why don't we talk about the lack of diversity?

17 comments

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damniatx
no one cares about your race in technology.
ASpring
There is a huge focus in academia about bringing a more diverse set of students into the computer science spectrum. Check out some of the ACM SIGSCE papers and presentations.

I think in the coming years we will see this change.

onlyup
Honest question.. what are the limits for caring about diversity? Skin colour.. height.. food preferences.. hair colour, eye colours.

tldr: Where are the famous midget programmers?

lappi
Basically, lets say that 1% of the are midgets, then when there're 1% midgets who are programmers, we can stop caring.
1123581321
If I recall some reading correctly, black males with college degrees choose CS at least as much as white men. (I don't know about black women, though.) I take this to mean that if we focus on improving education opportunities in general, we will see more black programmers. If we obsess over CS and not college graduation rates, we essentially advocate reducing the number of blacks in other educated fields.
ig1
(Assuming we're talking US here)

Because the number of black programmers is roughly in-line with the general population when adjusted for geography and education.

According to the GSS the number of black programmers is roughly 8%.

keiferski
But the question is then: does the makeup of all ethnicities within programming reflect the general population?
ig1
At a guess I'd say whites would be under-represented and people from asian ethinc backgrounds would be over-represented (probably true across engineering subjects). But nonetheless the difference from the general population is relatively insignificant when compared to the gender gap (where the difference is huge).
OafTobark
Saw a TIL Reddit thread recently that stated Indians make up 1% of the population but account for 40% of engineering jobs or something (paraphrasing as I don't remember the exact numbers and didn't read the article linked).
bbissoon
Wow, the answers here are pretty ignorant of the factors at work. I'm a Black programmer and the first hurdle I ran into was not having access or understanding the concept of a computer until I HAD to use one. For instance, it was in high school where a guidance counselor told us we should send college applications and provide an email address - thing is - I didn't know what an email address was. I learned typing on a typewriter... I'm 26 years old, I was still learning to set margins and tabs while most of my peers were using typing applications on a computer.

My idea of a mouse was the creature that ran to and fro with the roaches in the building we lived in. For the longest, I thought Yahoo.com was the internet lol.

Second, we programmers feed off the community we surround ourselves with - hence this forum, hacker meetups etc. But in my neighborhood - it's non existent with the focus being on sports, programs for at-risk youth and countless other interest - not computers or programming. I say MY neighborhood because I can't speak for all - but the trend is highly prevalent throughout all inner city and rural communities.

The economic hardship is also a factor. Not having access to a computer goes hand in hand with school district funding, family income etc. Also, programming changes so rapidly, the moment you get your foot in - its easy to get discouraged by your lack of understanding because the technique you just learned gets optimized and becomes the new norm before you master the fundamentals.

Saying 1% of this is the same as in the field is ridiculous. Explain the NFL, NBA, FIFA, NASCAR - does those reflect the population? Some states are reaching out to the inner city to teach them to solve the very problems they face using code - other places are still fine with utilizing the tools already made and have no interest in innovating them.

OafTobark
I'm sorry but I have to assume your experience is that of an outlier. I grew up with many black friends and even those that were poor knew what a computer, mouse, etc... was, how to use one, etc... I can't imagine your experience speaking for the norm although I have no statistic to back your experience versus that of another peer in your age group.
1123581321
Respectfully, I don't think I am ignorant of this. All the problems you mention are linked to lower college graduation rates. As I said, when the college graduation rates improve, more blacks will go to college and the ones who want to will choose CS -- and college graduation rates will improve as some of those problems are fixed. Trying to pull blacks who will graduate college into CS without raising college graduation rates just pulls them out of other degree programs. Maybe you think it's an improvement because you see CS as superior; that's fair, but keep in mind members of every field of study want more racial diversity in their respective fields. I think it's better to focus on pure gains than a zero-sum game. Introducing students to code at an early age, and making it part of people's lives, will certainly increase interest in CS, and it will also increase interest in college and ability to attend it and succeed at it. It's no different than a program to introduce good books to children who normally wouldn't encounter them and who, again, would obviously be unlikely to go to college.

I live in a white rust-belt city where people definitely do not talk about anything I read on Hacker News outside of the few small developer meetups some of us have barely managed to keep going. It's the same kind of problem you have in the inner city -- low rates of education that prevent people who might have been interested in software development from really get a chance to explore it.

P.S. I learned to type on a typewriter too. I happen to count that one as an advantage.

davismwfl
Frankly, I have to agree with another post. I can care less about what the color of your skin is, are you intelligent? That is really all that matters in the end. And with really rare exception this is how I have seen true high tech businesses. The ignorant care about skin color, race etc, the rest of us care about you abilities and that is all.

It is sad to me anyone cares about anything other than your ability to deliver. It is equally as sad that people sue over race when really it is someones inability to do the job. Regardless of your race, religion or color.

devgurl36
DISCLAIMER My opinion is based only on my experiences.

I am a black female graduating with my degree in CS in the Spring. I have been fortunate enough to have completed a couple of internships during my time at school. From my experiences, color doesn't matter...knowledge does.

With that being said, I can understand other black student's need to find a mentor or role model of color. They're out there. I met a really cool developer from GaTech that thought me a lot at my last internship. Of that experience, I felt as though he wasn't guiding me because I was also black. He didn't care. It was all about performance.

I also agree with the post before mine that lack of exposure to technology in our youth is the main reason for less black developers.

bbissoon
What area of programming are you into?
albumedia
I don't think the lack of diversity is an issue at all. Programmers provide solutions to problems...computers don't care about your race, age or gender when executing code.

I'm a famous black programmer...you just haven't heard much about me :)