There actually have been a lot of consternation regarding golf, but at least people are out exercising and having fun and stuff. It's not all bad. Personally I think the main issue with respect to water is the usage and usage at lower or even at market rates when perhaps they should be charging more. But if you do that, prices go up, less accessibility of the sport and then you get in trouble for being only a rich person sport. Nobody really can win there.
But I think a better question is, why aren't the Chinese increasingly alarmed by AI data centers and their impact on the environment? Or are they?
The Chinese are rebuilding their electric grid to be all renewable. It will take a couple more decades, but they are literally printing energy like we print processors.
Some other initiatives that incline me to believe the CCP has an amount of care and concern for their people are the trash incinerator build out and the health care ambitions. Generally speaking though, on average, the non-West countries seem far more optimistic about the future with Ai than we do.
> The Chinese are rebuilding their electric grid to be all renewable. It will take a couple more decades, but they are literally printing energy like we print processors.
Sure but decades will leave them very very very very far behind in the AI race so they'll still have to experience price increases before then. Plus even if they do build capacity that has cost that has to be recouped somehow.
They are deploying renewables on a scale that is hard to fathom, they have plenty of electricity across all sources for Ai, EVs, and Robots. What they aim to be is fully renewable (no fossil fuels) within a couple of decades
I suspect you are missing the data on how much energy infra they already have and are building every year
they are already ahead on both fronts as well as have the lower costs and deployment times for new energy creation, transmissions, and battery storage, in short, they are crushing it on energy infra
But there are still costs and environmental impact.
If you need water for example for data center cooling no amount of renewable energy is going to change that (I'm speaking generally, of course you could cool more efficiently or use something else), and so as China continues to build more and more as they are today they will also see impacts related to energy cost and environmental impact just like anywhere else in the world. It may manifest slightly differently, but even if Chinese energy production costs were half of what they are in the US it still costs money to build those things and you can't run them at a loss, well you can and China might, but we saw how that turned out in the housing market most recently.
My comment about building stuff decades out is that there is an intersection (imagine a graph with two lines trending in the same direction but with different slopes) where you have to increase performance to keep up, America is doing that at high cost as you can see, and so China will have to build more and build more now to keep up with scaling (there are so many underlying assumptions for these conversations it's hard to even talk about it) which will then raise energy prices and have environmental effects now, not later.
I think they are, it just doesn't appear as often. They are also limited by the chips they can get (limiting what power they can bring to bear), and also have NO PROBLEM building new power plants or other kinds of infrastructure (unlike the USA). Honestly, the biggest problem is water, since their renewable west lacks it, but even then they can just setup a data center to use more energy to substitute for less water usage.
pure whataboutism is different, and often changes topics, and is defined to be as a response to an accusation, though I personally think where/when it applies is broader
this is asking (rhetorically), for those who care about the environmental impacts of human activity (like I do), why not put that energy towards more fruitful targets? Why get so outraged at one thing, but not the things that are worse?
I do think we need to regulate data center operations, but it is nowhere near as bad as the worst offenders. I suspect the answer to my questions here are that this is the first time Americans have felt like they are being heard in a long time, so everyone is doubling down, regardless of bigger pictures.
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[ 0.22 ms ] story [ 27.8 ms ] threadwhere's the outrage?
But I think a better question is, why aren't the Chinese increasingly alarmed by AI data centers and their impact on the environment? Or are they?
Some other initiatives that incline me to believe the CCP has an amount of care and concern for their people are the trash incinerator build out and the health care ambitions. Generally speaking though, on average, the non-West countries seem far more optimistic about the future with Ai than we do.
Sure but decades will leave them very very very very far behind in the AI race so they'll still have to experience price increases before then. Plus even if they do build capacity that has cost that has to be recouped somehow.
one "very" for every month?
They are deploying renewables on a scale that is hard to fathom, they have plenty of electricity across all sources for Ai, EVs, and Robots. What they aim to be is fully renewable (no fossil fuels) within a couple of decades
No, you missed the point and you're now conflating AI capability with infrastructure cost.
they are already ahead on both fronts as well as have the lower costs and deployment times for new energy creation, transmissions, and battery storage, in short, they are crushing it on energy infra
If you need water for example for data center cooling no amount of renewable energy is going to change that (I'm speaking generally, of course you could cool more efficiently or use something else), and so as China continues to build more and more as they are today they will also see impacts related to energy cost and environmental impact just like anywhere else in the world. It may manifest slightly differently, but even if Chinese energy production costs were half of what they are in the US it still costs money to build those things and you can't run them at a loss, well you can and China might, but we saw how that turned out in the housing market most recently.
My comment about building stuff decades out is that there is an intersection (imagine a graph with two lines trending in the same direction but with different slopes) where you have to increase performance to keep up, America is doing that at high cost as you can see, and so China will have to build more and build more now to keep up with scaling (there are so many underlying assumptions for these conversations it's hard to even talk about it) which will then raise energy prices and have environmental effects now, not later.
I'd recommend reading what someone is writing and engaging with that. It's a good thing to do.
Golf CEOs aren’t autistic and adderall riddled enough to run their mouths so publicly and stupidly like tech CEOs.
this is asking (rhetorically), for those who care about the environmental impacts of human activity (like I do), why not put that energy towards more fruitful targets? Why get so outraged at one thing, but not the things that are worse?
I do think we need to regulate data center operations, but it is nowhere near as bad as the worst offenders. I suspect the answer to my questions here are that this is the first time Americans have felt like they are being heard in a long time, so everyone is doubling down, regardless of bigger pictures.