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Ask HN: How to recover Google auth after phone stolen?

1 points by keymasta ↗ HN
As we know, google has been effective at automating a lot of their systems, to the point where it can feel like there isn't any help available from a human. So what is supposed to be the plan when this type of situation happens?

Basically I have a situation that after my phone was stolen, I can't get into any of my accounts that are either connected to google, or connected to the phone via 2FA. This has made it complicated/impossible not only to get info about my phone, but also my banking, email, drive, etc.

Of course they offer you "multiple options" to recover an account, but not if you forgot your old email's password. At that point the options you get are,

  a) Use old phone (obviously the phone is long gone)
  b) Use current phone (the phone is gone)
  c) Use old email (I haven't used it in like 12 years)
Does anyone know if their is a process to appeal 2FA or anything to deal with this type of situation?

I'd imagine that this has happened to people many many times, and given how phones and particularly, google auth have become so critical to accomplishing essential tasks within society, there must be some way. Or maybe it's just like, once you're phone is gone, you are completely over with society? If anyone has any experience with this or inside knowledge please share it!

I'm sure people here have heard of this, and maybe experienced it themselves.

114 comments

[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 103 ms ] thread
runjake
The only secret option I know of is to have a popular social media account and complain online.

Other than that, I copy/pasted your post into Claude and it had some good ideas.

phildougherty
need to save your recovery keys (text file) before you lost the phone
pixl97
Excellent idea... shit my house just burned down with my phone.
mococa
There's no way, no human contact. That's why I de-googled myself.
lotsofpulp
No human contact is a plus for security, as the human is the weakest link that can give up your authentication to someone that isn’t you.
ks2048
The human factor is walking into your local branch with your face and an ID - something that can’t be done on a large scale by bots.
vel0city
This has often been abused with mobile phone carriers to get SIM cards issued for targets by just knowing enough customer details. This then allowed them to intercept SMS 2FA challenges and access even more sensitive accounts.
sampullman
If you don't have the authenticator backup codes and you didn't turn on cloud sync in the app, you might be out of luck.

You can get a replacement SIM though and use it with a new phone, so the phone number recovery option should work.

dz0ny
Happened to me, I was able to get SMS and recovery codes, but Google still required additional verification on now lost phone :D. On the end I acutely found the phone and was able to restore access. So what they do after couple of days of failed attempts the require additional verification, lets call it 3 step.
cute_boi
I have passkeys, authenticator etc... and everything except phone number, and now i am unable to login my account in other device.

Google sucks, they are randomly denying access because their dumb model can't figure out not everyone is trying to steal account.

kaycey2022
This feels objectively worse than writing down a password somewhere
Apreche
You were supposed to save your backup codes.
ticulatedspline
Isn't there an SMS option? buy a new phone and have them send you an OTP via SMS.

> once you're phone is gone, you are completely over with society?

yes, I'm waiting for the Black-Mirror episode where someone drops their phone and basically dies, can't contact anyone, can't unlock or start their car, can't get an uber, can't pay for anything, can't navigate without gps, can't log into anything etc.

keymasta
Pretty similar to how my life feels right now.
ticulatedspline
As an old curmudgeon I recoil at any service I can't interact with sans-phone. I hardly use mine for anything.

Just be glad your phone number is tied to your account, if you lose the number itself you are royally screwed, and basically anyone who gets your old number owns all your accounts now.

kxrm
Same, it is kind of strange. Back in 2005 I was one of the first to carry the full internet on my phone and now I am leading the charge to avoid having to carry the internet in my pocket.

If your product or service requires a phone, I just don't do business with you. I know I sound like archaic recommending this, but we (as a society) need to push back on your phone being the key to your life.

My phone is no more special than my laptop, however this requires an incredible amount of inconvenience for most people and the social pressure to carry a cellphone. As you can imagine, I do not have many friends these days.

jurgenburgen
It sounds like you solved the problem of losing access to society by losing access to society.

Have you considered having backups instead? Carry a physical credit card, make sure you have a backup phone uncharged at home ready for a swap?

kxrm
> It sounds like you solved the problem of losing access to society by losing access to society.

Perhaps, but frankly I have been more on the lookout for people like me. Natural filter for compatibility?

> Have you considered having backups instead? Carry a physical credit card, make sure you have a backup phone uncharged at home ready for a swap?

I mean, I carry a wallet. Most vendors and society still take cash or card. Where the real friction comes in is staying connected to a community. Everyone wants to keep social connections virtual for some odd reason. As a remote worker I definitely get the virtues of remote interaction, but sometimes meeting people in person has benefits. It does not have to be all-or-nothing and it feels like we are moving to an all-or-nothing digital way of life.

ipaddr
I never understood why people would bring their phones in public. From getting stolen, lost or broken to the tracking and border accessing your social media accounts, personal photos and bank information it makes very little sense when no one actual calls anyone anymore.
memcg
When I dropped my landline after more than 40 years, I transferred the number to a flip phone. This number is also used my family members as a backup phone number for 2FA and voice. Everyone has access to voice mail and can leave messages for others if a phone is lost, broken or stolen.
ryanhecht
Something I learned the hard way: it's a bad time if you are a Google Fi customer and your Android phone with an eSim becomes inoperable while traveling :)
dogmatism
just in general, it's difficult if your phone with an esim dies/lost/stolen (ie no access) to move the esim over. It's especially annoying if it just died, because instead of just popping the sim over you end up in a maze with the carrier (unless you are lucky enough to other lines on the account you have access to)
washadjeffmad
Went through the same last month. I had to both buy a new phone and still have my old one repaired to be able to authenticate to set up the new one.

I was a CyanogenMod user before switching to Pixel, and that experience was a monumental shove towards moving to Graphene.

foobarchu
My wife recently had this happen to a work acquaintance. They are a recent immigrant who has only lived in New York since moving here, who was sent out to the Midwest where there is no public transportation and driving is mandatory, and is staying at a hotel. She lost her phone, and thus could not get anywhere or communicate with anyone, and couldn't pay for anything due to her phone being where all her money is stored (no physical credit cards or anything). Luckily, my wife was able to get her around and help her out until they eventually discovered it was in a lost and found. If she had been alone, I don't know what she would have done.

Imagine being on vacation and you lose your phone, or it breaks. You offloaded your payments to digital and have no cards or cash, you can't get in your hotel room because you used a digital key like hotels all want you to, maybe you brought a car but oops it's a Tesla and you're depending on your phone as the key because it's less stuff to carry!

hexapus
I recently switched to a Minimal Phone with an e-ink screen, and it sucks (which is the point, obviously). One of the things that sucks is NFC. The payment terminals constantly have a hard time grabbing it, and when they do, they often throw a bizaare "multiple cards detected" error, which is extra strange, since I only have one card stored.

I have a separate sleeve wallet, which I can attach to the back of the phone magnetically that contains my physical debit card + drivers license. If I lost the phone, there's probably at least a 50/50 chance that I'd still have the wallet sleeve in my pocket at least, so I'd at least have my ID and a way to pay for things...but if I lost them both, I'd be pretty screwed.

Convenience is nice, but switching to a shitty phone made me realise I can live without a lot of convenient things, and it's safer not to keep all your eggs in one black rectangle.

pid0x17
We need to better educate non-technical users about making multiple local backups of things like password managers, TOTP seeds, etc.

Yes, even writing the most important ones on a piece of paper and keeping it somewhere safe (like a safe in your house) is an option, as long as you have a low threat model, of course.

lyfeninja
I lost my phone, and slacks recovery model is essentially like this.
SAI_Peregrinus
The same way you recover any other deleted data for which you didn't make a backup: you don't. You eat the loss & make new accounts. Then you remember to make and test backups for the future.

Even if they had customer support, if that customer support had a backdoor to unlock your account it would be regularly used by malicious parties to steal people's accounts & data.

dvngnt_
They could do ID verification
wccrawford
Everything you listed, plus a recovery email option, plus backup codes, plus SMS.

That's already a lot and anything easier would allow people to just take over accounts that they don't have a right to.

SoftTalker
You're going to have more success working with the providers of the other accounts and services rather than Google. That means a lot more legwork on your part but banks and other online services all have processes to deal with lost passwords. In some cases you may have to physically go somewhere with ID and other documents.

Consider it a learning experience.

pards
Going forward, consider using an authenticator that securely syncs across multiple devices to remove the single point of failure risk.

I use Proton Authenticator now [0]

Authy used to do this, then they enshittified their app and bricked the desktop version.

[0]: https://proton.me/authenticator

mixmastamyk
Does your browser have the email password saved?
autoexec
Man, passwords sure are nice aren't they! All you have to do is remember one because your password manager remembers all the rest of your randomly generated passwords for you and as long as you keep a backup of the password database you never have to worry about this bullshit.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
Freak_NL
OTP works with a password manager too. I have Authy on my Android, and Pass on my Linux computers. The second is backed up properly. This approach just means that enabling 2FA (which is mostly OTP in any case) just means registering the OTP URI in two locations instead of one.

Additional benefit: I can generate an OTP for any service protected like this without having to get my phone from wherever it is.

thrownaway561
Honestly.... This is why I have everything in Bitwarden. All 2FA runs through it so even if my phone got stolen, I could still access everything. I honestly don't understand why more people don't pay the $10 a year and just use Bitwarden.
phainopepla2
Having your passwords and 2FA with the same provider carries some risk. If someone can access your Bitwarden account they will have full access to all your accounts.
vel0city
What's your plan when you lose access to Bitwarden?

What happens when your Bitwarden gets compromised?

patshead
> All 2FA runs through it

I hope that isn't true, because I sure can't think of a good way to use Bitwarden's TOTP as 2FA for Bitwarden! :)

vablings
FIDO2 USB Security key -> Bitwarden (With master password) -> Every other 2FA method

I have 3 FIDO2 USB Security keys, One I carry with my persons at all times, one that stays with my main machine at all times and an offsite backup that is sitting in a friend's server, if my house burns down, I can either physically collect the key or use USB-IP to authenticate back into bitwarden and enroll a new key. (Actually all 3 are at home right now but that's ok)

My phone is logged into Bitwarden so even then I can recover my passwords and data in case of a serious incident immediately.

Even if both my house and my friend's house burn down at the same time, I can still recover my data from my phone unless my phone is left in the house, all of which to say I still have the recovery phrase written down in a box somewhere in a different country

ectoloph
I always feel conflicted with this.

Using my password manager to store 2FA codes is convenient, but it adds a layer of indirection if they are elsewhere.

But if you've compromised my password manager, you almost certainly have enough access to my machines to get to the alternatives.

beej71
It's a good reminder to everyone who uses 2FA. Be sure you have multiple ways in for when your phone becomes unusable.
teekert
Yeah I lost my phone some months ago. Quite the panick because I am also MS365 admin for 2 orgs... 3 hr later a trucker called my wife using the iPhone emergency contact feature (what a hero). Now I bought an iPad that stays at home and has all the apps. Honestly, I should also put a second phone somewhere else.

Also frees me up to experiment a bit more on the Phone side (just got a Pixel 10 with GrapheneOS), although, so far it all just works (with Google Services of course).

bentcorner
At one time I heeded advice not to rely on 2FA SMS because you know it's not secure, so I kept everything in a 2FA app.

Well through an unfortunate sequence of button clicks I wiped my 2FA state and had a hell of a time getting into the apps that I removed my SMS from.

In theory yes SMS is an attack vector but personally the safety and convenience of SMS is more valuable than the odds that someone impersonates me at my mobile provider.

(Also I stopped using that 2FA app and just use a keepass db stored in onedrive).

mrj
This is why my self-hosted Vaultwarden is my one password that I have to remember and requires no 2fa, which is the only important account that doesn't have 2fa.

If I wake up in a bathtub missing a kidney I can still get to my passwords and 2fa sources stored with it. Some accounts require SMS (annoyingly) so I'd have to buy a phone but the auth and credit card numbers I need to do that are in Vaultwarden, too.

I don't have good solutions now for OP (other than buy a new phone through your carrier and transfer the number). But everyone else do think through your personal DRP. Generate backup codes and put them somewhere safe, too.

bazmattaz
Welll yeh until a Hargrove fails on your self hosted server
nyx
[delayed]
627467
True.. but now you have more devices to have to secure against attacks...

Edit: this "feature" did save me when my home hosted vaultwarden died due to hdd failure.

mrj
I "self host" on Hetzner for Hargrove avoidance
jeroenhd
You can add a passkey (preferably a physical one) to authenticate. You can also add a software passkey but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Actually keeping your recovery options recent is the trick. Print out your recovery codes or store them somewhere safe. Check regularly (yearly, maybe more often) that there's a way to access your critical accounts.

For Google, you can also grab the cheapest Android phone you can find, sign in, and maybe boot it once a month or so to keep the tokens active.

If you've set up your account to only accept one source of 2FA and you lose thst source of 2FA, you lose your account. Same happens when you set up your account to only accept your password and then lose your password. If you lose your recovery email/2FA backup codes, you lose access, unless you're special enough to convince customer support that you are who you claim you are and not just a bot trying to hack you.

If you've lost your account and haven't set up any recovery mechanisms, you're probably out of luck. Your best bet will be looking for an old browser session with enough trust from Google's side to get access without reconfirming your 2FA trust.

jakub_g
Yup, having _two_ active devices which are logged in to Google (and possibly other services that you rely on that opt you in to app-based 2FA) + with backups of 2FA is a must at this point. When I buy a new phone, I make it a "primary", and keep my old phone as "backup".

If you're not into cloud-based password/2FA syncing, Google Authenticator supports local export/import across devices via a QR code. For passwords, I use KeePass Portable / Keepass2Android + syncing between devices from time to time through a USB-C pendrive (The source of truth KP DB is on pendrive, and both phones work off a local on-device cache).

You don't need to have your phone stolen for things to get messed up. If your screen breaks, you can't type in a PIN anymore, can't unblock with a fingerprint, and you effectively can't access anything on the phone. ADB won't connect because screen is off, and you can't unlock / accept a new external connection etc.

cj
> buy a new phone, I make it a "primary", and keep my old phone as "backup".

Sadly this is why I never end up trading in my phone. Always feels too risky to not have an overlap period.

tonymet
can you recover one of the old contact points (phone or email) for a reset code?

I would send a paper letter to the Google legal contact. It's the only way to get escalated support.

I agree the covenant for account recovery has been broken. Every 6 months, a new artifact is expected to access the account, without adequate preparation for the recovery.

happyopossum
All those times you logged in and were prompted to verify your backup email address, and when you set up 2FA and were given recovery codes, and when given the option to sync 2FA codes to another copy of the authenticator app: This Is Why.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this - hopefully everyone else here can take it as a cautionary tale.

splitwheel
This happened to me on my iPhone 8 many years ago. I reset it to let my son use it, and did not have google authenticator in mind. I had to reset each account with the providers. Now I use a cloud account to sync these. I reset most accounts with an SMS or email one time code -- which led me to remove SMS and email as recovery options from google. And, I put a code on t-mobile to prevent sim transfer.
luka
I'll fill out a "help my friend" form internally unless someone beats me to it (I have a 1hr meeting coming up). The gmail address in question is the same one as on your website?
dgunay
That's nice of you, but I'd urge anyone with influence at Google to consider 1) many many many more people who use Google services probably don't know or run in the same circles as Googlers who can bail them out of such a scenario, and 2) these people, being much less likely to understand 2FA, are also more likely to accidentally lock themselves out. An separate class of people who know how a system works or have connections to its operators become nose blind to its terrible UX because they have access to workarounds.
senordevnyc
All true, but I’m guessing the set of people at Google who can fill out that form is about 1000x larger than the ones who have the ability to influence the underlying product decisions that led to this situation.
asdff
Consider the fact that they have made this difficult a sign that they have no interest in making it easy.
ihg5000mrtnav
Sorry to bother, but I have been without access to the account I use for my YouTube channel for months because I stupidly entered a random phone number many years ago and it is now demanding access to it. If you would be willing to fill out that form for me, I would greatly appreciate it. Account is this username at gmail. Thanks!
luka
Did you try going through the normal account recovery procedure? During that procedure, did you have to provide an alternative email address that you have access to?
ihg5000mrtnav
The account recovery procedure only asks for the last password I remember (which I know is correct) and then says "You can’t recover your account at this time because Google doesn’t have enough info to be sure this account is yours."

I know the email, password, (wrong) phone number on file, and associated YouTube channel. I am logging in from a different IP address but on the same ASN and approximate geolocation that I always logged in and used the account from.

luka
"Try another way" until you can give an alternative email address that you have access to.
ihg5000mrtnav
I have tried all combinations of entering password, entering the phone number, try another way, etc., and it never lets me enter an alternative email address.
luka
[delayed]
ihg5000mrtnav
Attempt 1: Entered email, got captcha, clicked "try another way". Result: Google couldn’t verify this account belongs to you. Try again later or use Account Recovery for help.

Attempt 2: Entered email, got captcha, completed captcha, got enter last password screen, clicked "try another way". Form asked to confirm phone number. Entered phone number, sent code (which I can't get), clicked "I don't have my phone". Site asked for alternate email, which I provided and supplied the code. Result: "Reply to your Google support email or contact to let the team know you've successfully completed your account recovery request. To try signing in again, follow the steps in our Help Center on how to recover your account."

Attempt 3: Entered email, got captcha, completed captcha, got enter last password screen, entered password, got asked to confirm phone number, clicked "I don't have my phone". Site asked for alternate email, which I provided and supplied the code. Result: "Reply to your Google support email or contact to let the team know you've successfully completed your account recovery request. To try signing in again, follow the steps in our Help Center on how to recover your account."

All attempts were done with new Chrome Incognito windows and no other Incognito windows open. I still can't sign in at all. Is this account just permanently locked?

luka
Attempt 2 enabled the potential internal escalation to proceed.

The form is now asking me for details that we best talk non-publicly about. What's the best place to contact you privately, other than HN?

j1elo
Recovery is similar to leaving a copy of your door keys to a trusted neighbour (a tradition in some places, it comes in handy when someone goes out and realizes they forgot the keys inside...), so in that comparison, having a recovery email unused for 12 years feels like leaving your backup keys to a neighbor that you never saw ever again in more than a decade.

This kind of posts are a valuable trigger for all others who are reading it. To the author: good luck, I hope you sort your situation soon! I'm now headed to check my accounts for what recovery options I left in there.

tamimio
Well that’s why you should have software 2FA and even backing up the tokens so you can generate that one time code even if you lost access to your main authenticator, having your phone as the only 2FA is like having those yubikey hardware used as 2FA without making a redundant one, losing it, you lost access, which is usually known since no one would use yubikey without being tech savvy to start with, now google or other companies are turning phones as an attestation method for the crowd, you might soon in the future become citizen-less because your digital ID can only be proven in the lost phone.
stefan_
While we are on this, is there a comprehensive guide on how to "theft-proof" your iPhone? Not in the sense of preventing the theft, but rather the fallout on all our various online service access.

Using the iPhone backup to setup a new phone is a good reminder every time that not half of the stuff comes back correctly..

asdff
I'm not sure you'd really need a guide. Just use the phone as a phone and pretend like it isn't a smartphone. Suddenly you are teleported back into 2005: physical credit cards, physical transit passes, online banking via a desktop website. It is still up to you what era you decide to live in technologically today.