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Ask HN: How to recover Google auth after phone stolen?

1 points by keymasta ↗ HN
As we know, google has been effective at automating a lot of their systems, to the point where it can feel like there isn't any help available from a human. So what is supposed to be the plan when this type of situation happens?

Basically I have a situation that after my phone was stolen, I can't get into any of my accounts that are either connected to google, or connected to the phone via 2FA. This has made it complicated/impossible not only to get info about my phone, but also my banking, email, drive, etc.

Of course they offer you "multiple options" to recover an account, but not if you forgot your old email's password. At that point the options you get are,

  a) Use old phone (obviously the phone is long gone)
  b) Use current phone (the phone is gone)
  c) Use old email (I haven't used it in like 12 years)
Does anyone know if their is a process to appeal 2FA or anything to deal with this type of situation?

I'd imagine that this has happened to people many many times, and given how phones and particularly, google auth have become so critical to accomplishing essential tasks within society, there must be some way. Or maybe it's just like, once you're phone is gone, you are completely over with society? If anyone has any experience with this or inside knowledge please share it!

I'm sure people here have heard of this, and maybe experienced it themselves.

76 comments

[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 33.5 ms ] thread
runjake
The only secret option I know of is to have a popular social media account and complain online.

Other than that, I copy/pasted your post into Claude and it had some good ideas.

phildougherty
need to save your recovery keys (text file) before you lost the phone
pixl97
Excellent idea... shit my house just burned down with my phone.
mococa
There's no way, no human contact. That's why I de-googled myself.
lotsofpulp
No human contact is a plus for security, as the human is the weakest link that can give up your authentication to someone that isn’t you.
ks2048
The human factor is walking into your local branch with your face and an ID - something that can’t be done on a large scale by bots.
vel0city
This has often been abused with mobile phone carriers to get SIM cards issued for targets by just knowing enough customer details. This then allowed them to intercept SMS 2FA challenges and access even more sensitive accounts.
sampullman
If you don't have the authenticator backup codes and you didn't turn on cloud sync in the app, you might be out of luck.

You can get a replacement SIM though and use it with a new phone, so the phone number recovery option should work.

dz0ny
Happened to me, I was able to get SMS and recovery codes, but Google still required additional verification on now lost phone :D. On the end I acutely found the phone and was able to restore access. So what they do after couple of days of failed attempts the require additional verification, lets call it 3 step.
cute_boi
I have passkeys, authenticator etc... and everything except phone number, and now i am unable to login my account in other device.

Google sucks, they are randomly denying access because their dumb model can't figure out not everyone is trying to steal account.

Apreche
You were supposed to save your backup codes.
ticulatedspline
Isn't there an SMS option? buy a new phone and have them send you an OTP via SMS.

> once you're phone is gone, you are completely over with society?

yes, I'm waiting for the Black-Mirror episode where someone drops their phone and basically dies, can't contact anyone, can't unlock or start their car, can't get an uber, can't pay for anything, can't navigate without gps, can't log into anything etc.

keymasta
Pretty similar to how my life feels right now.
ticulatedspline
As an old curmudgeon I recoil at any service I can't interact with sans-phone. I hardly use mine for anything.

Just be glad your phone number is tied to your account, if you lose the number itself you are royally screwed, and basically anyone who gets your old number owns all your accounts now.

kxrm
Same, it is kind of strange. Back in 2005 I was one of the first to carry the full internet on my phone and now I am leading the charge to avoid having to carry the internet in my pocket.

If your product or service requires a phone, I just don't do business with you. I know I sound like archaic recommending this, but we (as a society) need to push back on your phone being the key to your life.

My phone is no more special than my laptop, however this requires an incredible amount of inconvenience for most people and the social pressure to carry a cellphone. As you can imagine, I do not have many friends these days.

SAI_Peregrinus
The same way you recover any other deleted data for which you didn't make a backup: you don't. You eat the loss & make new accounts. Then you remember to make and test backups for the future.

Even if they had customer support, if that customer support had a backdoor to unlock your account it would be regularly used by malicious parties to steal people's accounts & data.

dvngnt_
They could do ID verification
wccrawford
Everything you listed, plus a recovery email option, plus backup codes, plus SMS.

That's already a lot and anything easier would allow people to just take over accounts that they don't have a right to.

SoftTalker
You're going to have more success working with the providers of the other accounts and services rather than Google. That means a lot more legwork on your part but banks and other online services all have processes to deal with lost passwords. In some cases you may have to physically go somewhere with ID and other documents.

Consider it a learning experience.

pards
Going forward, consider using an authenticator that securely syncs across multiple devices to remove the single point of failure risk.

I use Proton Authenticator now [0]

Authy used to do this, then they enshittified their app and bricked the desktop version.

[0]: https://proton.me/authenticator

mixmastamyk
Does your browser have the email password saved?
autoexec
Man, passwords sure are nice aren't they! All you have to do is remember one because your password manager remembers all the rest of your randomly generated passwords for you and as long as you keep a backup of the password database you never have to worry about this bullshit.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
Freak_NL
OTP works with a password manager too. I have Authy on my Android, and Pass on my Linux computers. The second is backed up properly. This approach just means that enabling 2FA (which is mostly OTP in any case) just means registering the OTP URI in two locations instead of one.

Additional benefit: I can generate an OTP for any service protected like this without having to get my phone from wherever it is.

thrownaway561
Honestly.... This is why I have everything in Bitwarden. All 2FA runs through it so even if my phone got stolen, I could still access everything. I honestly don't understand why more people don't pay the $10 a year and just use Bitwarden.
phainopepla2
Having your passwords and 2FA with the same provider carries some risk. If someone can access your Bitwarden account they will have full access to all your accounts.
vel0city
What's your plan when you lose access to Bitwarden?

What happens when your Bitwarden gets compromised?

patshead
> All 2FA runs through it

I hope that isn't true, because I sure can't think of a good way to use Bitwarden's TOTP as 2FA for Bitwarden! :)

vablings
FIDO2 USB Security key -> Bitwarden (With master password) -> Every other 2FA method

I have 3 FIDO2 USB Security keys, One I carry with my persons at all times, one that stays with my main machine at all times and an offsite backup that is sitting in a friend's server, if my house burns down, I can either physically collect the key or use USB-IP to authenticate back into bitwarden and enroll a new key. (Actually all 3 are at home right now but that's ok)

My phone is logged into Bitwarden so even then I can recover my passwords and data in case of a serious incident immediately.

Even if both my house and my friend's house burn down at the same time, I can still recover my data from my phone unless my phone is left in the house, all of which to say I still have the recovery phrase written down in a box somewhere in a different country

beej71
It's a good reminder to everyone who uses 2FA. Be sure you have multiple ways in for when your phone becomes unusable.
teekert
Yeah I lost my phone some months ago. Quite the panick because I am also MS365 admin for 2 orgs... 3 hr later a trucker called my wife using the iPhone emergency contact feature (what a hero). Now I bought an iPad that stays at home and has all the apps. Honestly, I should also put a second phone somewhere else.

Also frees me up to experiment a bit more on the Phone side (just got a Pixel 10 with GrapheneOS), although, so far it all just works (with Google Services of course).

mrj
This is why my self-hosted Vaultwarden is my one password that I have to remember and requires no 2fa, which is the only important account that doesn't have 2fa.

If I wake up in a bathtub missing a kidney I can still get to my passwords and 2fa sources stored with it. Some accounts require SMS (annoyingly) so I'd have to buy a phone but the auth and credit card numbers I need to do that are in Vaultwarden, too.

I don't have good solutions now for OP (other than buy a new phone through your carrier and transfer the number). But everyone else do think through your personal DRP. Generate backup codes and put them somewhere safe, too.

bazmattaz
Welll yeh until a Hargrove fails on your self hosted server
nyx
[delayed]
jeroenhd
You can add a passkey (preferably a physical one) to authenticate. You can also add a software passkey but that kind of defeats the purpose.

Actually keeping your recovery options recent is the trick. Print out your recovery codes or store them somewhere safe. Check regularly (yearly, maybe more often) that there's a way to access your critical accounts.

For Google, you can also grab the cheapest Android phone you can find, sign in, and maybe boot it once a month or so to keep the tokens active.

If you've set up your account to only accept one source of 2FA and you lose thst source of 2FA, you lose your account. Same happens when you set up your account to only accept your password and then lose your password. If you lose your recovery email/2FA backup codes, you lose access, unless you're special enough to convince customer support that you are who you claim you are and not just a bot trying to hack you.

If you've lost your account and haven't set up any recovery mechanisms, you're probably out of luck. Your best bet will be looking for an old browser session with enough trust from Google's side to get access without reconfirming your 2FA trust.

jakub_g
Yup, having _two_ active devices which are logged in to Google (and possibly other services that you rely on that opt you in to app-based 2FA) + with backups of 2FA is a must at this point. When I buy a new phone, I make it a "primary", and keep my old phone as "backup".

If you're not into cloud-based password/2FA syncing, Google Authenticator supports local export/import across devices via a QR code. For passwords, I use KeePass Portable / Keepass2Android + syncing between devices from time to time through a USB-C pendrive (The source of truth KP DB is on pendrive, and both phones work off a local on-device cache).

You don't need to have your phone stolen for things to get messed up. If your screen breaks, you can't type in a PIN anymore, can't unblock with a fingerprint, and you effectively can't access anything on the phone. ADB won't connect because screen is off, and you can't unlock / accept a new external connection etc.

cj
> buy a new phone, I make it a "primary", and keep my old phone as "backup".

Sadly this is why I never end up trading in my phone. Always feels too risky to not have an overlap period.

tonymet
can you recover one of the old contact points (phone or email) for a reset code?

I would send a paper letter to the Google legal contact. It's the only way to get escalated support.

I agree the covenant for account recovery has been broken. Every 6 months, a new artifact is expected to access the account, without adequate preparation for the recovery.

happyopossum
All those times you logged in and were prompted to verify your backup email address, and when you set up 2FA and were given recovery codes, and when given the option to sync 2FA codes to another copy of the authenticator app: This Is Why.

I'm sorry you're dealing with this - hopefully everyone else here can take it as a cautionary tale.

splitwheel
This happened to me on my iPhone 8 many years ago. I reset it to let my son use it, and did not have google authenticator in mind. I had to reset each account with the providers. Now I use a cloud account to sync these. I reset most accounts with an SMS or email one time code -- which led me to remove SMS and email as recovery options from google. And, I put a code on t-mobile to prevent sim transfer.
luka
I'll fill out a "help my friend" form internally unless someone beats me to it (I have a 1hr meeting coming up). The gmail address in question is the same one as on your website?
dgunay
That's nice of you, but I'd urge anyone with influence at Google to consider 1) many many many more people who use Google services probably don't know or run in the same circles as Googlers who can bail them out of such a scenario, and 2) these people, being much less likely to understand 2FA, are also more likely to accidentally lock themselves out. An separate class of people who know how a system works or have connections to its operators become nose blind to its terrible UX because they have access to workarounds.
senordevnyc
All true, but I’m guessing the set of people at Google who can fill out that form is about 1000x larger than the ones who have the ability to influence the underlying product decisions that led to this situation.
asdff
Consider the fact that they have made this difficult a sign that they have no interest in making it easy.
ihg5000mrtnav
Sorry to bother, but I have been without access to the account I use for my YouTube channel for months because I stupidly entered a random phone number many years ago and it is now demanding access to it. If you would be willing to fill out that form for me, I would greatly appreciate it. Account is this username at gmail. Thanks!
luka
Did you try going through the normal account recovery procedure? During that procedure, did you have to provide an alternative email address that you have access to?
ihg5000mrtnav
The account recovery procedure only asks for the last password I remember (which I know is correct) and then says "You can’t recover your account at this time because Google doesn’t have enough info to be sure this account is yours."

I know the email, password, (wrong) phone number on file, and associated YouTube channel. I am logging in from a different IP address but on the same ASN and approximate geolocation that I always logged in and used the account from.

luka
"Try another way" until you can give an alternative email address that you have access to.
ihg5000mrtnav
I have tried all combinations of entering password, entering the phone number, try another way, etc., and it never lets me enter an alternative email address.
j1elo
Recovery is similar to leaving a copy of your door keys to a trusted neighbour (a tradition in some places, it comes in handy when someone goes out and realizes they forgot the keys inside...), so in that comparison, having a recovery email unused for 12 years feels like leaving your backup keys to a neighbor that you never saw ever again in more than a decade.

This kind of posts are a valuable trigger for all others who are reading it. To the author: good luck, I hope you sort your situation soon! I'm now headed to check my accounts for what recovery options I left in there.

tamimio
Well that’s why you should have software 2FA and even backing up the tokens so you can generate that one time code even if you lost access to your main authenticator, having your phone as the only 2FA is like having those yubikey hardware used as 2FA without making a redundant one, losing it, you lost access, which is usually known since no one would use yubikey without being tech savvy to start with, now google or other companies are turning phones as an attestation method for the crowd, you might soon in the future become citizen-less because your digital ID can only be proven in the lost phone.
stefan_
While we are on this, is there a comprehensive guide on how to "theft-proof" your iPhone? Not in the sense of preventing the theft, but rather the fallout on all our various online service access.

Using the iPhone backup to setup a new phone is a good reminder every time that not half of the stuff comes back correctly..

asdff
I'm not sure you'd really need a guide. Just use the phone as a phone and pretend like it isn't a smartphone. Suddenly you are teleported back into 2005: physical credit cards, physical transit passes, online banking via a desktop website. It is still up to you what era you decide to live in technologically today.