It’s still not thinking just because we call the reasoning texts “thoughts”. To imply otherwise in the direction of these models truly “thinking” is just a failure to understand the technology.
1) I'm with you in that I'm critical of people who mindlessly say things like "Claude lied to me", and maybe even "ChatGPT hallucinated".
2) On the other hand I'm also critical of people who assert that "Ackshelly you didn't do any 'work' by putting the crate from this table to that table" or "sweet potatoes are not 'potatoes' at all, so don't call them potatoes".
In physics, words like 'work', 'power', 'heat' have very specific meanings. The 'heat death of the universe' is thought to be near absolute zero Kelvin a.k.a. frigging cold, no heat anywhere. The meaning of 'work' in physics has a certain overlap with what is called 'work' outside of physics (to wit, a number of different things). A typical biologist or taxonomist's view on species is much more nuanced than the ordinary guy-with-some-general-educational-background's view on the subject: the latter will tend to see species as an absolute given which science just has to uncover. Sure scientists can err but ultimately the truth of biological species is often conceived as incontrovertible by the informed layman instead of what it is: a tool for thought, a human measure brought in to help make sense of chaotic data. Darwin already said as much.
Maybe physics should never have chosen terms like 'force', 'work', 'power'. As a German speaker let me remark that especially 'power' is a bit puzzling; German has 'Leistung' instead which I think is a bit clearer. But even when scientists go and create their own terms like 'energy' or 'quantum leap', neither of which existed before being introduced with a specific scientific definition attached to them, the public often goes and appropriates them anyway. So "he's got such a cold energy" ("cold" being associated with lack of thermal energy) and "a massive quantum leap" (i.e. "a sizeable advancement" instead of "the smallest possible change") are colloquially possible.
Look at more squishy terms from squishier sciences like 'language' as used by linguists and things become even more difficult. Sure, "the language of Islamic architecture in early medieval Spain" is a nice and valid book title and no linguists will take exception. But talk about the new research on the "language of birds" in the newspaper and you will ruffle some feathers.
One has to acknowledge that people are challenged with finding words to describe a new phenomenon. Sure, we could stop at 'calculate' or 'compute', as in "ChatGPT computed some falsehoods" instead of saying it 'lied'. But even when I say that "ChatGPT's answer was wrong" doesn't 'answer', alone and by itself, already imply a degree of intentionality that is (or should be, as far we can tell) absent from a process that purely relies on solving one big formula with a pinch of randomness thrown in? Then again, "what is the calculator's answer?" was already used in the 1970s when pocket calculators were all the rage.
Poor choices are still poor choices. Words are very curious things with very infinite meanings, shifting between context. There’s probably something to be said about how we shape our languages and how ambiguity of meaning can prevent those who just don’t know from knowing. You know what I mean?
Sure maybe the English language is choosing to adopt the word “thinking” for what is going on here. Some people are choosing “reasoning”. It’s all the same to me though. The thought outputs aren’t any different that the final message for me, regardless of its shape.
I don’t have a better alternative, but I’m pretty sure this just makes people who aren’t in the industry dumber when they see it.
It doesn’t really matter. There’s no way the training loop necessary is sustainable and these things are a fad. How long? Idk. But language will change and there will be a day where using an LLM requires as much training as reading old religious texts. Got to learn more language.
We can add you to the list of smart folks who have lost their minds over this topic, and all for a failure to understand the basic computer science on which they're built.
I guess if you get too far away from the metal (and too high up in the boardroom), it's easy to lose touch.
These things behave like humans. Because of their training. And we have no language to discuss their actions.
When my agents refuse to follow my instructions - I ask them why. Typically they will explain that they think my design is misguided and theirs is better. We'll reach a consensus and move forward.
How on earth are we supposed talk about that without using anthropomorphic language?
This is a very poor take and based on his education and the things he has done - he surely does not think this....he's pumping LLM based startups his/(others) companies are funding...embarassing for him intellectually but probably quite beneficial financially
Look at some of the shit John Carmack now says for God's sake. Throw enough money at anyone and they turn into an idiot
Or, maybe your understanding is wrong. He may be incentivized to say it, but you haven’t provided any reason to not believe these systems are “thinking.”
Things are moving so fast that I don't think even Paul understands much about the change that is brewing nor it's scale, no one knows what's going to happen.
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[ 0.24 ms ] story [ 11.4 ms ] thread2) On the other hand I'm also critical of people who assert that "Ackshelly you didn't do any 'work' by putting the crate from this table to that table" or "sweet potatoes are not 'potatoes' at all, so don't call them potatoes".
In physics, words like 'work', 'power', 'heat' have very specific meanings. The 'heat death of the universe' is thought to be near absolute zero Kelvin a.k.a. frigging cold, no heat anywhere. The meaning of 'work' in physics has a certain overlap with what is called 'work' outside of physics (to wit, a number of different things). A typical biologist or taxonomist's view on species is much more nuanced than the ordinary guy-with-some-general-educational-background's view on the subject: the latter will tend to see species as an absolute given which science just has to uncover. Sure scientists can err but ultimately the truth of biological species is often conceived as incontrovertible by the informed layman instead of what it is: a tool for thought, a human measure brought in to help make sense of chaotic data. Darwin already said as much.
Maybe physics should never have chosen terms like 'force', 'work', 'power'. As a German speaker let me remark that especially 'power' is a bit puzzling; German has 'Leistung' instead which I think is a bit clearer. But even when scientists go and create their own terms like 'energy' or 'quantum leap', neither of which existed before being introduced with a specific scientific definition attached to them, the public often goes and appropriates them anyway. So "he's got such a cold energy" ("cold" being associated with lack of thermal energy) and "a massive quantum leap" (i.e. "a sizeable advancement" instead of "the smallest possible change") are colloquially possible.
Look at more squishy terms from squishier sciences like 'language' as used by linguists and things become even more difficult. Sure, "the language of Islamic architecture in early medieval Spain" is a nice and valid book title and no linguists will take exception. But talk about the new research on the "language of birds" in the newspaper and you will ruffle some feathers.
One has to acknowledge that people are challenged with finding words to describe a new phenomenon. Sure, we could stop at 'calculate' or 'compute', as in "ChatGPT computed some falsehoods" instead of saying it 'lied'. But even when I say that "ChatGPT's answer was wrong" doesn't 'answer', alone and by itself, already imply a degree of intentionality that is (or should be, as far we can tell) absent from a process that purely relies on solving one big formula with a pinch of randomness thrown in? Then again, "what is the calculator's answer?" was already used in the 1970s when pocket calculators were all the rage.
Sure maybe the English language is choosing to adopt the word “thinking” for what is going on here. Some people are choosing “reasoning”. It’s all the same to me though. The thought outputs aren’t any different that the final message for me, regardless of its shape.
I don’t have a better alternative, but I’m pretty sure this just makes people who aren’t in the industry dumber when they see it.
It doesn’t really matter. There’s no way the training loop necessary is sustainable and these things are a fad. How long? Idk. But language will change and there will be a day where using an LLM requires as much training as reading old religious texts. Got to learn more language.
We can add you to the list of smart folks who have lost their minds over this topic, and all for a failure to understand the basic computer science on which they're built.
I guess if you get too far away from the metal (and too high up in the boardroom), it's easy to lose touch.
It's fun sci-fi to think that people are machines, too. Descartes started it.
When my agents refuse to follow my instructions - I ask them why. Typically they will explain that they think my design is misguided and theirs is better. We'll reach a consensus and move forward.
How on earth are we supposed talk about that without using anthropomorphic language?
This is a very poor take and based on his education and the things he has done - he surely does not think this....he's pumping LLM based startups his/(others) companies are funding...embarassing for him intellectually but probably quite beneficial financially
Look at some of the shit John Carmack now says for God's sake. Throw enough money at anyone and they turn into an idiot
I wish we would stop and ask that question and ponder if that’s what we want.
It feels a lot like power has been concentrating such that a minuscule minority get to set that direction.
Not questioning but can you share a few so that it can serve as warning reference.
What a delusional world we’re heading towards. :(