Ask HN: do you design websites so that they work without JavaScript?

Testing. I like to design/build my sites with graceful degradation so I can easily script testing (what can I say, I'm a barebones type of dev).

A lot of the decisions around this depend on what your app is doing. We are building a profiles section to our site with typical social networking features. We didn't provision at all for non-js because a) you need js to even get to the app and b) the director of engineering is an incompetent wanker and has no experience building web apps.

Normally, you need to start by breaking down what sections of an app absolutely need js code to work. Regular forms dont need any js to run. You can have a fancy form that falls back to a basic form.

Also, don't rely on js 100% for styling. Use css for everything. Except for ie6 and :hover. Bloody IE...

I don't; but that's because i mainly develop intranet websites.

But even when i do develop public facing websites, deciding to put in the effort for graceful degradation depends on your target audience.

These days i find more clients asking for UI features on websites that cannot degrade gracefully at all. Again, depends on your audience.

Yes, and it's actually easier.

The trick is not to think in terms of 'supporting graceful degradation', but in terms of 'javascript enhancements'.

Which means, do your entire app to work in html. Then add javascript wherever you can to enhance the app.

Force all your javascript to run /after/ the page loads, it's a constraint that will stop you from cheating.

An example is a delete button. Do it in html as so:

    <form class="delete" action="/delete/something" method="post"><input type="submit" value="delete"></form>

Then, with your framework of choice (jquery here):

    <script>
    runOnLoad(function(){
       $(".delete").submit(function(){
           var form = $(this);
           if (confirm("Are you sure you want to delete this?")) {
               $.post(form.attr("action"), function() {
                   form.replaceWith("Deleted!");
               });
           }
           return false;
       });
    });
    </script>

(Code untested)

So instead of the delete button causing you to go to a new page, it will just popup a confirmation, and when you click 'ok' will do the ajax call, and change the button into a 'Deleted!' message.

With a decent framework, the code to 'enhance' will maybe add a tiny bit of overhead in terms of loc and time, (this example for instance, 3 lines more than if it was javascript only).

But you get a much easier to debug app and it works everywhere to boot.