I’m quite shocked that this was even open to abuse to begin with. Clearly, the US has very strict immigration and green card laws. So enforcement has been lax? Or were deals made under the table with these companies and previous administrations?
It's part of the same system. The system is a largely fraudulent one throughout. Doesn't matter if you're applying for an initial H1B or a PERM.
This system is ostensibly there so that we can draw that skilled 10X engineer or brilliant researcher in India, UK, Romania, Australia, whatever, to America - to boost our companies and get his/her productivity into our GDP instead of some other country's companies and GDP. If used that way, I am all for it. Most of us have met many non-citizens who are very obviously a net benefit to our country due to their talent and ambition.
But this system is used in practice to depress all of our wages, to knock out rungs on the career ladder for new graduates, and to create a semi-indentured workforce more tolerant of low pay and poor working conditions, by bringing over completely average developers of the variety that you could just as easily get by putting up a table at your local college's career day.
I don't blame the workers who accept this offer, as being paid on the low end of our scale here is obviously an upgrade or they wouldn't take it. But it's a betrayal of our domestic workers. A financial hit for some of us, and for those earlier in their career, a major blocker to them getting jobs in the first place.
An individual immigrant violating US immigration law is dealt with very strictly.
A money-making interest violating US immigration law is a completely different matter, because capital loves nothing more than cheap labor and is willing to subject labor to the ordeal of being the individual immigrant dealing with US immigration law, so long as they don't cost as much as Americans.
Hmm? Green card fraud is pretty easy and very common. You put out an ad for the job role. Then you sort the fake resumes to the top and fail them in the interview.
Visa programs have been widely abused for decades. This just addresses the PERM portion for a few companies. The abuses of the OPT, CPT programs are insidious and have resulted in a job market that completely disincentives the hiring of new grad Americans.
It's not uncommon to find job postings that are "H1B only". Companies won't even consider citizens. H1B, H4 EAD have become a way for ethnic nepotism and kickback programs to operate without consequences and get American companies to fire Americans in favor of foreign workers.
This is just the smallest step in the right direction.
> President Donald Trump’s administration is suspending tech giant Microsoft from a program to apply for green cards for workers who come to the U.S. to live and work using H-1B visas
Everything described in the article, is about H1-B. So yes, the action is preventing greencard applications for those H1-B visas, but that is functionally the same as restricting Microsoft's access to H1-Bs since a future green card sponsorship is the reason many are there working for them on that visa.
The article is about green card applications. Not h1b sponsorship
> that is functionally the same as restricting Microsoft's access to H1-Bs since a future green card sponsorship is the reason many are there working for them on that visa.
That's quite a stretch. Only to some extent is true
I’m sure the tech CEOs thought they would have some kind of “most favored” status by ingratiating themselves, but everyone who has ever buddied up with a dictator eventually finds out that they too are disposable.
You can be a democratically elected dictator. A dictator is defined by the powers they possess, not by the process by which they obtained power.
There is an ongoing argument in the US that a person was elected, therefore everything they do after that has the blessing of the electorate. Funny thing though, the people don’t really have a crystal ball to see into the future how their elected official will decide betray the country in the name of a “mandate”.
Fixing the visa program is a thing that can be done to improve things across the board. Punishing individual companies that the executive "arbitrarily" chooses is dictator shit.
When you think about it, they're just dictators of their own companies. They're used to everyone doing as they say with little resistance. And of course, the first set of interests they're incentivized to look out for is their own through share grants.
They thought "hiring" a guy like them to be President would mean having a sympathetic ear for all sorts of issues that keep them from "unlocking value for shareholders", but forgot that sympathy has no place in business.
As for H1B, it's been abused and can be used to make the people in the US on that visa an indentured servant. There's definitely reforms that need to be made, and an interest in hiring people from the US that needs to be taken up, but as with all things, the guy doing it is too contemptible of a leader to look past.
You think tech ceos care? Come on, this is a great way to weaken labor across the industry. Threaten current immigrants with literal concentration camps, threaten Americans by condemning them to homelessness + death while massive attacks to welfare programs continue unabated.
What do you think happens when you lose your ability to provide for shelter or healthcare for yourself? Go talk to people that are now homeless because they lost their jobs.
Lay offs are a potential death sentence, there is a very real reason why suicides increases track nearly 1-to-1 with unemployment rates.
That's the dice roll you have in this country as a worker.
I'm not tracking how you think getting of this particular visa program "weakens labor" when what it will actually do is strengthen labor by decreasing labor supply and increasing individual bargaining power of workers.
Has Microsoft done much toadying? I don't recall seeing their name appear in many of the articles about tech CEOs and companies debasing themselves at Trump's feet. I've seen plenty about Apple and Facebook and obviously Musk, but I don't remember seeing much about Microsoft. I wonder if that lack of ingratiation is part of why MS is being targeted here but the other large tech companies aren't?
I entirely agree. They are looking at many countries like those in Latin America, to hire cheaper labor there either vis local subsidiaries or local outsourcing/consulting firms
Generally I would rather them offshore talent than bring in foreign workers to our soil. I would make an exception for the actual exceptional people we need for jobs but not for the run of the mill developers or whatever we seem to be bringing in by the truckload.
The issue is they might run out of normal countries. In developing countries they would quickly become target of local corrupt officials. They would basically suck out whatever they can from companies that would attempt to do billion dollar business there. You can think of them as some mob from mafia movies. There is no way Microsoft would prefer to deal with that kind of folk instead of just hiring American people
Microsoft is located in Bangalore and Hyderabad. Both of those cities are not exactly known for their corruption.
If you want corruption, then Delhi is your best bet.
Private Businesses should not be able to offer citizenship as a side payment to their employees, they should stick to offering cash. If you are the french foreign legion and you want to reward military recruits with citizenship, then at least it's a government that is receiving the benefit and selling the citizenship, but private business should not be able to sell citizenship, or an easier way to get citizenship, to anyone. It's not a resource that belongs to them.
This requires a constitutional amendment to actually make reality - as long as the Birthright Citizenship clause of the 14th amendment stands, any program that lets you physically stand on US soil is de facto offering citizenship to your children (who can then sponsor you + other family members for family immigration later in life).
But you need an employer filing petition on your behalf. That's the fucked up part. It should be like in any other country: If you have lived in the US for at least 5 years (assuming you got here legally), you should be able to file a green card petition, or even directly apply for citizenship yourself, without your employer even knowing.
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[ 0.28 ms ] story [ 14.7 ms ] threadThis system is ostensibly there so that we can draw that skilled 10X engineer or brilliant researcher in India, UK, Romania, Australia, whatever, to America - to boost our companies and get his/her productivity into our GDP instead of some other country's companies and GDP. If used that way, I am all for it. Most of us have met many non-citizens who are very obviously a net benefit to our country due to their talent and ambition.
But this system is used in practice to depress all of our wages, to knock out rungs on the career ladder for new graduates, and to create a semi-indentured workforce more tolerant of low pay and poor working conditions, by bringing over completely average developers of the variety that you could just as easily get by putting up a table at your local college's career day.
I don't blame the workers who accept this offer, as being paid on the low end of our scale here is obviously an upgrade or they wouldn't take it. But it's a betrayal of our domestic workers. A financial hit for some of us, and for those earlier in their career, a major blocker to them getting jobs in the first place.
A money-making interest violating US immigration law is a completely different matter, because capital loves nothing more than cheap labor and is willing to subject labor to the ordeal of being the individual immigrant dealing with US immigration law, so long as they don't cost as much as Americans.
Boom, perm green card. Every big company does it.
Are you sure it means no citizens? That seems strange. I read that as if you need visa support, you should have h1b already.
> President Donald Trump’s administration is suspending tech giant Microsoft from a program to apply for green cards for workers who come to the U.S. to live and work using H-1B visas
Everything described in the article, is about H1-B. So yes, the action is preventing greencard applications for those H1-B visas, but that is functionally the same as restricting Microsoft's access to H1-Bs since a future green card sponsorship is the reason many are there working for them on that visa.
The article is about green card applications. Not h1b sponsorship
> that is functionally the same as restricting Microsoft's access to H1-Bs since a future green card sponsorship is the reason many are there working for them on that visa.
That's quite a stretch. Only to some extent is true
oh wait...
There is an ongoing argument in the US that a person was elected, therefore everything they do after that has the blessing of the electorate. Funny thing though, the people don’t really have a crystal ball to see into the future how their elected official will decide betray the country in the name of a “mandate”.
They thought "hiring" a guy like them to be President would mean having a sympathetic ear for all sorts of issues that keep them from "unlocking value for shareholders", but forgot that sympathy has no place in business.
As for H1B, it's been abused and can be used to make the people in the US on that visa an indentured servant. There's definitely reforms that need to be made, and an interest in hiring people from the US that needs to be taken up, but as with all things, the guy doing it is too contemptible of a leader to look past.
The only ones who lose are the workers.
Lay offs are a potential death sentence, there is a very real reason why suicides increases track nearly 1-to-1 with unemployment rates.
That's the dice roll you have in this country as a worker.
Yup.
https://news.microsoft.com/en-in/microsoft-idc-celebrates-25...
Private Businesses should not be able to offer citizenship as a side payment to their employees, they should stick to offering cash. If you are the french foreign legion and you want to reward military recruits with citizenship, then at least it's a government that is receiving the benefit and selling the citizenship, but private business should not be able to sell citizenship, or an easier way to get citizenship, to anyone. It's not a resource that belongs to them.
At the time we all saw the H1B1 program as a way for companies to hire cheaper labor that they can treat poorly.