Yes, in general people place a lot of value in the wisdom that comes with age so long as the person isn’t senile.
Obviously with autocrats this isn’t applicable but there’s nothing inherently nonsensical or inexplicable about why mostly old dudes rule much of the world.
>Yes, in general people place a lot of value in the wisdom
I don't think that holds as an explanation given that 1. there's not a lot of wisdom going around among the geriatric leaders of the world, 2. this is a pretty rapidly increasing trend, not some fact of history.
Historical leaders used to be younger, including after accounting for increased lifespans. Just look at the founding of the American Republic. It's much more a sign of two things. Increased decadence and civilizations that are themselves at the end of their rope, and in democracies in particular a geriatric population that keeps voting itself into power based on their own interests.
I haven’t done the math but I’m assuming if you look at the founding fathers and life expectancy for the general population in the 18th century they would have represented what people in their 60s represent today relative to the rest of the population.
Also you can’t really talk about a geriatric population ‘voting itself into power’ if it makes up such a small proportion of the population. Young people just abstain from voting in western democracies, which is a choice just as much as voting one way or the other is. Yes, a person votes in his own self interest - that’s how that works.
>Yes, a person votes in his own self interest - that’s how that works
No, that's not how that works, some Rousseau might be in order. What early Republicans still recognized is the concept of general will. That a polity is not just the sum of its individual interests but an orientation of each member towards the shared common good. A democracy that is governed by self interest, in which simply put each vote is bought is a democracy in decayed state.
That this doesn't even register with people any more and is perceived as the norm is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying that most current democratic nations are at the end of their life.
There's a reason why every American worker is paying 6% of their income to give checks to the richest cohort in society, and any politician is afraid to touch the program.
Can you expand on what you mean? I may be ignorant but my understanding of the system is you would technically get more back percentage wise as a low wage worker? Of course this is not just some cost benefit analysis, that money means more if you make less while you are still paying in. This is not a comment on the system at large, just more specifically I want to understand what you are implying.
Every young person in America is paying 6% (3% directly, 3% by their employer) of every pay check into a wealth redistribution program. Who receives the money from that program? Baby Boomers, who have an average wealth of $1.8 million, only ~$400k of which is in that house they don't feel pressure to down-size out of. The remaining ~$1.4 million is spread across a number of liquid-able assets that they could use to fund their lifestyle if they choose to [1].
It's funny that most politicians promise taxes on the wealthy to support social programs without mentioning that the overwhelming majoring of said programs involve forcing young people who don't own homes and aren't having families to give UBI to millionaires.
Yes. But. Just like long-enduring CEOs of increasing disrupt-able enterprises, long-lived politicians accumulate obligations to their donors in a manner that limits their policy latitude.
Sadly, such long-tenured politicians also happen to be old. The old-ness is mostly not actually the problem. It is the constraints.
The term "Senate" comes from the Latin word "senex" meaning "old man", and obviously the US inherited the term "Senate" from ancient Rome. This is a basic structure of society.
The issue is that this particular group of people older than 65 at this particular time in world history (which you happen to be living in) are Boomers who are probably the most child-like, foolish, and ignorant generation of people in world history, due to the circumstances of their upbringing (post-WW2, high technology, opulence, drug use, sexual revolution, peace in the developed world).
This isn't ageism, since normally old people do tend to have more wisdom and knowledge than young people.
There is something that really went wrong with the Boomer generation. The goal of every society is basically to survive their Boomer generation which many are not really seeming to manage.
Notice that Senate wasn't the only governing party in ancient Rome. Also "old" is relative. It meant "too old to serve in military", with Sulla's reforms the minimum age was 31 and even before that most influential senators were 40-50.
For emperors: out of 80 only 14 were over 65. 2 resigned/died at 66, 1 at 67, 2 ruled only few months, so really 9 out of 80. Rome is not the place to look for old rulers
All the cries of ageism but there have been countless leaked reports of US Senators being treated for dementia and clearly cognitively impaired senators still serving. They're doing a weekend at bernies with McConnell right now!
Absolutely there are sharp people >65, but there is no question that cognitive decline starts in middle age and the risk for dementia increases dramatically past 65.
Then there is the argument, which imo is even stronger, of an inverting demographic pyramid and inter generational economic warfare to preserve pensions for people who won't live to see the effects of their policies. This is not at all sustainable and creates misery for the working class who will soon lack sufficient democratic power to vote their way out of it.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner, etc..
Not even that, IMO. In the past when the world was stable for centuries, it made sense to have seniors with a long experience to drive the public, see Roman senators as an example.
Nowadays the world changes so fast it does not make sense anymore.
My grandfather was born when radio was a luxury and died after living through another revolution, the TV. Internet was not so widespread.
While after him I witnessed the rise of TV, the birth of Internet and whatever other media it spawned. It's like living through 4x the advancements of our previous generation.
We can't expect a 70-80 years old to understand the world of today.
Good points, but I don't think its at all about wisdom, but about wealth and power which typically takes some time to accumulate.
It's a concession by governments to give the pultocrats a seat at the table, lest they decide to use their power to overthrow the ruling order. Tale as old as time.
>Absolutely there are sharp people >65, but there is no question that cognitive decline starts in middle age and the risk for dementia increases dramatically past 65.
I understand what they are defending, but it is still weird to have most of the USA presidents being born before the 50s. They don't have skin in the game. They will be dead before they see the consequences of their policies
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[ 0.19 ms ] story [ 8.2 ms ] threadWhich is ironic because I am younger than most HNers and Substackers who espouse this opinion and find it to be a weird form of ageism.
To me, a 45 year old and a 65 year old are equally out of touch or "old", so it feels like a pot calling a kettle black.
Obviously with autocrats this isn’t applicable but there’s nothing inherently nonsensical or inexplicable about why mostly old dudes rule much of the world.
I don't think that holds as an explanation given that 1. there's not a lot of wisdom going around among the geriatric leaders of the world, 2. this is a pretty rapidly increasing trend, not some fact of history.
Historical leaders used to be younger, including after accounting for increased lifespans. Just look at the founding of the American Republic. It's much more a sign of two things. Increased decadence and civilizations that are themselves at the end of their rope, and in democracies in particular a geriatric population that keeps voting itself into power based on their own interests.
Also you can’t really talk about a geriatric population ‘voting itself into power’ if it makes up such a small proportion of the population. Young people just abstain from voting in western democracies, which is a choice just as much as voting one way or the other is. Yes, a person votes in his own self interest - that’s how that works.
You’re not really supposed to just vote in your self-interest. It’s a proxy for violence.
No, that's not how that works, some Rousseau might be in order. What early Republicans still recognized is the concept of general will. That a polity is not just the sum of its individual interests but an orientation of each member towards the shared common good. A democracy that is governed by self interest, in which simply put each vote is bought is a democracy in decayed state.
That this doesn't even register with people any more and is perceived as the norm is exactly what I'm talking about when I'm saying that most current democratic nations are at the end of their life.
That, and people who are old enough to collect social security are rich.
Combine those two facts.
It's funny that most politicians promise taxes on the wealthy to support social programs without mentioning that the overwhelming majoring of said programs involve forcing young people who don't own homes and aren't having families to give UBI to millionaires.
[1]: https://usafacts.org/articles/how-has-wealth-distribution-in...
Sadly, such long-tenured politicians also happen to be old. The old-ness is mostly not actually the problem. It is the constraints.
The issue is that this particular group of people older than 65 at this particular time in world history (which you happen to be living in) are Boomers who are probably the most child-like, foolish, and ignorant generation of people in world history, due to the circumstances of their upbringing (post-WW2, high technology, opulence, drug use, sexual revolution, peace in the developed world).
This isn't ageism, since normally old people do tend to have more wisdom and knowledge than young people.
There is something that really went wrong with the Boomer generation. The goal of every society is basically to survive their Boomer generation which many are not really seeming to manage.
The rest, off the rails.
2/5 stars.
For emperors: out of 80 only 14 were over 65. 2 resigned/died at 66, 1 at 67, 2 ruled only few months, so really 9 out of 80. Rome is not the place to look for old rulers
So are they the worst ever, or, like, just probably? If you are going to say something, don't weasel.
Absolutely there are sharp people >65, but there is no question that cognitive decline starts in middle age and the risk for dementia increases dramatically past 65.
Then there is the argument, which imo is even stronger, of an inverting demographic pyramid and inter generational economic warfare to preserve pensions for people who won't live to see the effects of their policies. This is not at all sustainable and creates misery for the working class who will soon lack sufficient democratic power to vote their way out of it.
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for dinner, etc..
Nowadays the world changes so fast it does not make sense anymore.
My grandfather was born when radio was a luxury and died after living through another revolution, the TV. Internet was not so widespread. While after him I witnessed the rise of TV, the birth of Internet and whatever other media it spawned. It's like living through 4x the advancements of our previous generation.
We can't expect a 70-80 years old to understand the world of today.
It's a concession by governments to give the pultocrats a seat at the table, lest they decide to use their power to overthrow the ruling order. Tale as old as time.
I understand what they are defending, but it is still weird to have most of the USA presidents being born before the 50s. They don't have skin in the game. They will be dead before they see the consequences of their policies
Don't worry, they used their time to make sure their kids are filthy rich. Yours though...
A lunatic, who's also clearly stupid is a far more pressing concern.