Gdynia is an often overlooked neighbor of the famous Gdańsk.
Together with Sopot and Gdańsk they make Trójmiasto (Tricity). I live here for 7 years now and this agglomeration together with Kashubian surrounding is my fav place in the earth. Worth visiting if you want to see Poland
I could never see the touristic appeal of Gdynia, but it is (or at least used to be) the very best city in PL to live in. I wouldn’t trade growing up there for anything. Unfortunately life displaced me to my least favorite city :)
There are nice houses in that price range around Otwock, Piaseczno, and similar.
1.5M-2M is sort of the price range for something big, nice, and not car-dependent right now. You can find things less nice below that.
If you're willing to go as far out as Nieporęt or Grodzisk Mazowiecki, there's a ton of things below that. It's certainly not car-dependent; lots of stores nearby, but it is a decently long train ride if you want to come into Warsaw more frequently, at least if you mind working on a train.
If you don't mind car-dependent, it's a lot cheaper than that. Places outside of Otwock, near Park Kampinoski, and similar can be had for a song.
> This would be a new Poland. Wilson called for it to include ‘territories inhabited by indisputably Polish populations’ (this would become difficult to ascertain and haunt the future of the region)
I'm Polish, out of my 8 grandfathers: 2 come from modern day central Ukraine (Vinnytsia), 2 come from modern day Belarus (Ashmyany).
It's very hard to explain to people how weak the whole concept of nation state used to be in Eastern Europe till ww2.
From Eastern Germany to the Urals, every place you would go it was a deeply cosmopolitan mix of Germans, Jews, different Slav ethnicities and depending on the regions significant Romanians, Hungarians, Turks and some other minorities.
You would cross from one village to the other and the language would change, and in minor centers neighborhood and districts changed architecture and language. Different ethnicities also generally mapped to different professions and status.
Ethnic tensions were always present, everybody literally hated and tolerated each other with Jews generally being the common scape goat.
My grandparents coming from modern day Ukraine vividly remember the violence and terror caused by UPA, the nazi-sympathizing Ukrainian militias. My mother's grandma could not forget till the day she lived (died in 2004) what she saw in her childhood village when Ukrainians came and started a massacre that saw her losing a brother, countless cousins, uncles and friends.
Of course, Poles have been the aggressors too, just a few decades before, when Poland attacked the Soviet Union in the 1920s and had its own share of ethnic violence against Ukrainians and Belarusians.
In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.
The same happens in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict. The Russians see in Ukrainians the accomplice of their biggest trauma (the Great Patriotic War against Nazi Germany).
The Ukrainians see in Russia the perpetrator of their biggest trauma (the 1920s Holodomor).
No side ever says sorry, no side ever takes responsibility, no side can move on. And Eastern Europe keeps being unhealed from its traumas and carrying this in modern age.
The history of Eastern Europe is very interesting, in how that came to be. A combination of pure immigration and settlement of peoples from the more populous low countries and Rhine valley to Eastern Europe. There was expulsion of Jews from central and western Europe, leading them to migrate to Eastern europe for the comparative religious tolerance. Then there was the hanseatic league, which created German cities, settlements and districts throughout the East to bring goods west as part of a vast trade network. Then German miners and engineers being brought east to exploit mineral wealth. This isn't taught much in the western schools, but its fascinating confluence of factors that lasted hundreds of years in early modern europe that created this total lack of homogenous populations in eastern europe.
I'm Slovak, and when I was a kid, I was really wondering what is the thing that makes people Slovak, what is the unifying thing. And only later in life I realized, that there is not much to it. It's just people that happened to be living in this area and stayed throughout the different times. Many cultures came and left. All the slavic languages we kind of fluid for a very long time, the standardization is recent, if you look at it from global point of view. The sad part is, this is not really even taught in local schools. And I also find it fascinating, that it's such a wild blend of cultures and yet the country/nature where the people lived formed them to something unique.
It really is. I didn't much like history as a kid, but I like it a lot more as an adult. Last summer we toured through the Baltics as I've wanted to go for decades, and then this summer we toured Poland as my partner had never been. Every place I go to, museum I visit, plaque I read, is another puzzle piece in the migration of people across the whole region. By comparison migration in western europe seems like it was far less fluid.
> when Poland attacked the Soviet Union in the 1920s
Eh, it was more complicated than that. Basically a gradual build up from 1918 advancement of Polish forces from west and Soviet from east into the territories abandoned by German armies, then "border incidents" then regular army clashes, and eventually a full blown offensive by Poland and counteroffensive by Soviets.
I guess you can interpret it as Poland invading soviet russia (no soviet union yet btw).
But yeah Poland wasn't innocent anyway. For example it did the Putin's Crimean trick on Lithuania back in interwar. That was much more clear-cut.
> In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.
Poland did mea culpa after WW2. The whole thing is based on recognizing that Poland has been imperialist and did bad things and that it's in the end bad for Poland to continue trying to control these territories because it pushes us into conflict against Russia without the support of the other countries.
On the other hand admiting guilt and renouncing imperialism makes us clearly the lesser evil for the countries in between and gives us buffer zone in case Russia turns evil again (which we predicted, and which did happened).
It was the basis for Polish eastern foreign policy for last 37 years and still is (it's another question for how long it stays that way if far-right wins the next elections tho).
In the case of Poland, though, the post-war situation had more to do with Stalin wanting to punish Poland for interfering in Ukraine, as well as put more distance between the core of the Soviet Union and Germany, by seizing Polish territory in the east to give to the Ukrainian SSR, but in exchange and to weaken Germany, most of Prussia in Germany was seized and given to Poland, with the attending population transfers. In any case, with the Warsaw Pact, any revanchist sentiments that may have remained in Poland weren't going to get off the ground.
> In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.
When has anyone ever done that? I don't think it's an Eastern Europe problem. You can unify disparate groups under one flag for a time, but top down coercion only goes so far. Look at how well the former Ottoman territories get along today.
The entire continent was basically in a constant state of flux (and perpetual wars) through most of its history, ending with WWII in the West, with the fall of the USSR in most of the Central and Eastern Europe, and then continuing with some regional score-settling in the Balkans.
And even this is a bit reductionist: Spain was a dictatorship until about 1975! How crazy is that. This is basically the recent past of the EU.
For the misery of Central and Eastern Europe specifically, "Bloodlands" by Snyder is a good book. And this gets me to my second point: I think you're veering too far into relativism. Yes, every country did some shitty things - that's the history of the world for ya - but the Russian Empire and the German / Austrian / Prussian Empire can be singled out as especially awful when you look at the past 300-500 years. Even just by the simplest metric of the number of people displaced and killed, it's many orders of magnitude worse than what anyone else has done. This distinction is important because the legacy of bloody imperialism continues on the Russian side today - beyond Ukraine - and it's most certainly not excused by the fact that, dunno, Poland occupied Moscow once.
Fun fact: Bond villain Ernst Blofeld is from Gdynia!
As is half of my family, incidentally. In fact, the names of some of my relatives are written on the wall inside the museum pictured in the article. I lived there for 10 years. Lovely place to live.
lol nobody cares or wants to wonder at modernist architecture. These are at best nice buildings to live in, except the prices already caught up with German and Dutch cities so nothing to see there.
I enjoyed my time living in Trojmiasto - a few years in Gdansk, and a few in (the outskirts of) Gdynia. One day I'll move back and make it my forever-home.
With that said - "poets wrote of the city’s machinery and its modernist architecture" - who in their right mind would appreciate anything concerning the architecture of (central) Gdynia? It's a bleak collection of square concrete blocks with heavy traffic snaking its way in-between the buildings... It sucks to walk in, it sucks to stay in, and generally it just sucks to be in.
31 comments
[ 0.42 ms ] story [ 11.2 ms ] threadWarsaw?
But as a Californian, the two cities feel as different as Arcata and Eureka.
For the same price, one can find a full house, bordering on 300m², in the forests around Warsaw.
I would have loved to have bought into the tricity area a half-decade ago.
No you can't if you want a remotely nice house that is not in the middle of nowhere and fully car-dependent.
1.5M-2M is sort of the price range for something big, nice, and not car-dependent right now. You can find things less nice below that.
If you're willing to go as far out as Nieporęt or Grodzisk Mazowiecki, there's a ton of things below that. It's certainly not car-dependent; lots of stores nearby, but it is a decently long train ride if you want to come into Warsaw more frequently, at least if you mind working on a train.
If you don't mind car-dependent, it's a lot cheaper than that. Places outside of Otwock, near Park Kampinoski, and similar can be had for a song.
Both of them are just up the Baltic a bit from Gdenmark and Gdeutschland.
What a great phrase.
I'm Polish, out of my 8 grandfathers: 2 come from modern day central Ukraine (Vinnytsia), 2 come from modern day Belarus (Ashmyany).
It's very hard to explain to people how weak the whole concept of nation state used to be in Eastern Europe till ww2.
From Eastern Germany to the Urals, every place you would go it was a deeply cosmopolitan mix of Germans, Jews, different Slav ethnicities and depending on the regions significant Romanians, Hungarians, Turks and some other minorities.
You would cross from one village to the other and the language would change, and in minor centers neighborhood and districts changed architecture and language. Different ethnicities also generally mapped to different professions and status.
Ethnic tensions were always present, everybody literally hated and tolerated each other with Jews generally being the common scape goat.
My grandparents coming from modern day Ukraine vividly remember the violence and terror caused by UPA, the nazi-sympathizing Ukrainian militias. My mother's grandma could not forget till the day she lived (died in 2004) what she saw in her childhood village when Ukrainians came and started a massacre that saw her losing a brother, countless cousins, uncles and friends.
Of course, Poles have been the aggressors too, just a few decades before, when Poland attacked the Soviet Union in the 1920s and had its own share of ethnic violence against Ukrainians and Belarusians.
In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.
The same happens in the Russo-Ukrainian conflict. The Russians see in Ukrainians the accomplice of their biggest trauma (the Great Patriotic War against Nazi Germany).
The Ukrainians see in Russia the perpetrator of their biggest trauma (the 1920s Holodomor).
No side ever says sorry, no side ever takes responsibility, no side can move on. And Eastern Europe keeps being unhealed from its traumas and carrying this in modern age.
You probably mean great grand parents. You can only have 2 grandfathers.
And I feel that the Balkans are even more representative, although my perspective may be skewed because I live there.
Eh, it was more complicated than that. Basically a gradual build up from 1918 advancement of Polish forces from west and Soviet from east into the territories abandoned by German armies, then "border incidents" then regular army clashes, and eventually a full blown offensive by Poland and counteroffensive by Soviets.
I guess you can interpret it as Poland invading soviet russia (no soviet union yet btw).
But yeah Poland wasn't innocent anyway. For example it did the Putin's Crimean trick on Lithuania back in interwar. That was much more clear-cut.
> In any case, Eastern Europe is deeply plagued and poisoned by all of this past violence. No one is able to have a mea culpa moment, no one is able to admit their own guys were bloody murders often killing thousands of people like cattle. No one can admit their ancestors crap.
That's just false.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giedroyc_Doctrine
Poland did mea culpa after WW2. The whole thing is based on recognizing that Poland has been imperialist and did bad things and that it's in the end bad for Poland to continue trying to control these territories because it pushes us into conflict against Russia without the support of the other countries.
On the other hand admiting guilt and renouncing imperialism makes us clearly the lesser evil for the countries in between and gives us buffer zone in case Russia turns evil again (which we predicted, and which did happened).
It was the basis for Polish eastern foreign policy for last 37 years and still is (it's another question for how long it stays that way if far-right wins the next elections tho).
When has anyone ever done that? I don't think it's an Eastern Europe problem. You can unify disparate groups under one flag for a time, but top down coercion only goes so far. Look at how well the former Ottoman territories get along today.
Germans, Britons
That is disputed, there are sources that say that (mostly Russian based) and others that say it was the Soviets marching West to conquer Europe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJjhNVpSQzw
The entire continent was basically in a constant state of flux (and perpetual wars) through most of its history, ending with WWII in the West, with the fall of the USSR in most of the Central and Eastern Europe, and then continuing with some regional score-settling in the Balkans.
And even this is a bit reductionist: Spain was a dictatorship until about 1975! How crazy is that. This is basically the recent past of the EU.
For the misery of Central and Eastern Europe specifically, "Bloodlands" by Snyder is a good book. And this gets me to my second point: I think you're veering too far into relativism. Yes, every country did some shitty things - that's the history of the world for ya - but the Russian Empire and the German / Austrian / Prussian Empire can be singled out as especially awful when you look at the past 300-500 years. Even just by the simplest metric of the number of people displaced and killed, it's many orders of magnitude worse than what anyone else has done. This distinction is important because the legacy of bloody imperialism continues on the Russian side today - beyond Ukraine - and it's most certainly not excused by the fact that, dunno, Poland occupied Moscow once.
As is half of my family, incidentally. In fact, the names of some of my relatives are written on the wall inside the museum pictured in the article. I lived there for 10 years. Lovely place to live.
With that said - "poets wrote of the city’s machinery and its modernist architecture" - who in their right mind would appreciate anything concerning the architecture of (central) Gdynia? It's a bleak collection of square concrete blocks with heavy traffic snaking its way in-between the buildings... It sucks to walk in, it sucks to stay in, and generally it just sucks to be in.