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Stop blogging about how fun coding is

14 points by frendiversity ↗ HN
You devalue the profession and craft when you do this. In some contexts, sure, it can be rewarding and enjoyable. The same can be said about just about any other job. It can be fun to push shopping carts around or paint or whatever.

By proclaiming how "fun" and "rewarding" it is, you are leaving it open to Tom Sawyer fence-painting political arguments which devalues the very real tedium and decade-long learning curve experience required, along with your own intelligence.

22 comments

[ 6.3 ms ] story [ 53.4 ms ] thread
benaiah
But everyone sees the tedium. The tedium is obvious. You go in, you sit at a desk all day typing, and you go home. This is obviously not the case for every job, and very simplified, but it's the case in most jobs, and, more importantly, it's the popular conception of programming. The blog posts explain the gold at the end of the rainbow - why programming is enjoyable.

Many people write posts on why exercise is rewarding, yet exercise is often soul-crushingly tedious. Everyone knows about the tedium - it's obvious. The light at the end of the tunnel is not.

It's also pragmatic - people don't want or need to be reminded that coding can be boring, so posts on that don't get as many views. They do exist in large number, however (the best example that comes to mind is the one on how it takes ten years to master programming - don't remember the link off the top of my head).

frendiversity
Yet industries like the game industry are dominated and run by non-technical business leaders who use this to their political advantage- to the point of driving programmers like slaves. "Programming games is fun, right? So you won't mind working over the weekend, right? If not, we'll get the new hires to take over your project." and so forth.

People might see that programming is tedious, but "everything you say can and will be used against you" as political leverage and they don't care what they see, only what they can use as proof to devalue the skill you have that they don't.

I'd like to see more blog posts entitled "programming is fucking hard" and "I bashed my brains out all weekend to show off this barely functioning hack and my kidneys ache from the caffeine overload."

False modesty for the sake of "making it look easy" might benefit you as an individual by looking cool or elite or levelheaded, but it devalues the skill commodity and community as a whole.

I also think that the majority of the population has absolutely no idea of the work involved in your typical program, which leads to, as one simple example: the stereotypical relative asking you to make his great App idea, with absolutely no concept that it would take 6 months of 12 hour days.

xauronx
The problem is that other programmers don't care about posts like that, so they'd never be read. Or if they do read them it'll just be to tell you how completely idiotic you are for taking that long to figure that problem out. Or that they could have done it in a week. I don't know about you, but I enjoy reading articles about people succeeding and enjoying what we're all doing. Like, if you were pushing shopping carts would you rather read about people surfing on top of them or bitching about how terrible their lives are?
frendiversity
If you enjoy reading those articles so much, would you mind scanning through this pile of old newspapers I've got in my garage? I'll let you do it for $20.
xauronx
I'm not sure that I understand the point you're trying to make.
frendiversity
I don't have to make a point, I just have to cut down your argument with some evidence you agree with.

This is how you con programmers into writing programs for you. I have watched it happen half a dozen times now.

xauronx
No, I'm not saying you have to make a point but you have to at least make sense. What you said meant nothing to me, so I was asking for clarification, but you're obvious not looking for communication here.
frendiversity
That's correct, I am not looking for communication. I am simply frustrating your ability to make a valid argument. Inevitably I can use this tactic to persuade you to do something for me.
mingpan
I think this is a real issue, but is separate from the original point of this thread. The same thing happens to a much larger degree to artists, musicians, and all sorts of creative types. It's a job that enough people enjoy that there's a large supply of employees and at least some of them are willing to accept hard hours or mediocre pay in order to do what they love for a living.
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_delirium
A lot of programmers really do find it fun though, or at least interesting, and especially interesting to talk about. I don't really see why people interested in a craft shouldn't discuss things they find interesting about it. I mean, that's what happens in any other craft too: there are a ton of photography blogs, and they are mostly not about how photography is tedious and clients suck (though some are). Scientists tend to talk about science with a certain breathless tone, too.

Plus, a reasonable number of bloggers are blogging about side-projects, which is a bit different setting, and probably more fun. Same way that, say, there are people who enjoy cooking and blogging about it, but they might not really enjoy being a line chef.

rrmm
I don't understand. What practical effect does its devaluation have? In whose eyes does it devalue? Are you worried it's going to cause your salary to decrease?
frendiversity
I don't make a salary. I'm just blowing off some steam here, I am a game developer by trade and I've watched my non-technical peers succeed at getting their designs made half a dozen times simply through this political manipulation of programmers. It's insane that it works and incredibly frustrating to me to watch it happen over and over.
qbrass
So you're in a position to actually write about it. Start your own blog and lead by example.
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rrmm
I can understand your frustration. Given the ready supply of programmers who want to make games, the games industry seems to take advantage of programers to a degree that other places don't and can't.

That said, I'm not sure that your suggestion would really make a difference. It might be more useful to educate folks on the realities of that industry. Those realities that might make the craft unenjoyable aren't programming's fault.

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token78
Bah humbug.

By their very nature blog articles like this are reaching an audience of non-coders, to show them that a basic understanding of programming is within their grasp, that it's a worthwhile intellectual exercise, and yes, that there IS fun to he had in the endeavour.

Blog articles like these are not prospectuses for Computer Science courses, they are not meant to be a sombre accounts of the travails to be had in professional programming life. And your profession is no more devalued by their existence than Electrical Engineering is somehow devalued by those kits for children to make their own rudimentary electrical circuits.

And just the same, these kinds of articles have an educational function, especially when it comes lowering the perceived barrier for entry for lay people to understand some of the fundaments of how software works - and this includes young minds who may well choose it for a career.

I'm one of those ordinary people who read these kinds of articles and was motivated into action. And I was profoundly embarrassed at how long it took me to make my first to-do app. It didn't come natural to me, and I cracked the shits and banged the table at how I overlooked the one character typo that was screwing it up. But you know what? Finishing it was actually "fun" and it was "rewarding".

I'll leave it to you to guess whether my stumbled first steps into n00b level code have meant that your craft and your profession is now diminished in my mind, or elevated.

In a world where software is all pervasive, there's nothing to be served in encouraging popular ignorance. And I'm sure there's more to be gained for your profession as a whole if the wider world was just a little more literate about what you do.

frendiversity
Fair enough, and I agree with the other examples in the thread of why "programming is fun" literature has a positive effect, but it also has a very strong effect on people unlike us who aren't motivated by it and aren't ever going to be inspired to learn it, but are going to use it as ammunition. From a lot of my experience, that's the principal that a lot of business management is built on.
zalew
> By their very nature blog articles like this are reaching an audience of non-coders

are they? I always got the feeling it's preaching to the choir - those posts are popular on hn and so, and nowhere else. I don't know a single programmer who had to get convinced into programming by some random post. it's like you can't force someone into becoming an artist.

talmir
What would you rather have us do?

I am very happy in my coding job. I deal with (in my opinion) exciting and fun challenges every single day. I have never had the job satisfaction I have right now.

I am not allowed to voice that because of your fear that someone somewhere sees that I am happy in my job, and thus will lower the salary opertunity for you in your next job interview?

A happy car mechanic does not get paid less just because he likes his job. A doctor does not get paid less either. A skilled job will always require a certain pay grade to attract people. Coding is not for everyone, for the great majority of people out there they would rather sit and watch paint dry than to do what I do every day. THAT is what keeps our job opertunities good and the salary above average, not that we are unhappy with out jobs, but the personality and skillset required to do the job effectively.