Ruining the game for everyone; two things I love about Helvetica
— Terminals at right angles to the stroke. http://c.jon.gd/image/3Q0y2u323j3C . Arial looks particularly sloppy with jaunty terminals. It is possible to have a similar grotesque sans-serif feel with offset terminals (see Univers & Akzidenz Grotesk) but they're a crucial part of what give Helvetica its character.
- The uppercase R. Has a really strong leg compared to Arial's half-assed flaky leg.
I immediately got 17/20, missing only the ones where there were no lower case characters. How do you distinguish between in these 3 cases? http://imgur.com/a/NOLoI
1) Completely round O = Helvetica
2) The C's. Helvetica = flat endings not slanted
3) Like a perfectly round O, the M's have more of a squarish spacing
Kerning. If there's more uniform spacing between all letters in one picture it should be the original: "OTA" in Toyota, "THE" in The North Face and "TEL" in Mattel. But it would be hard without seeing them both at the same time.
A thing that helps me distinguish them is that Helvetica is a bit more decorative with some of the capitals, like G and R. I think the Arial designers were probably trying to make it "even more Helvetica than Helvetica", by simplifying the flourishey/decorative bits, like the bottom thing on a G and the curvy bit at the top of the slanty line of the R. (These are the proper typographical terms, btw.)
In Toyota, the O is the most round one. The R in North Face is the easiest tell there. In Mattel, you can see that the E has more balance with the rest of the letters.
Nicely done. I got most of those wrong! Which is why I leave typography to typographers.
Suggestion: wrong response page has a small graphic that emphasises a difference between Arial and Helvetica. e.g. the shape of the top part of the lower case r, &c
As the GP said, the caps on the S, C, T, etc were usually the giveaways.
The flourish at the bottom right (not sure the correct term) of the R in TARGET gave me at moment's pause. But each of the logos was customized to an extent.
I realised it must be Helvetica because of the "R". I reasoned thus: I am more familiar with Arial than Helvetica, and I'm sure I would have seen that "R" before if I were spending a lot of time with it because it's just so ugly, so since I didn't recognise it, it must be Helvetica. And I was right.
It's funny, because I universally prefer Helvetica over Arial otherwise.
The perfectly round "O" was the giveaway for me. Helvetica just feels more "literal" to me, if that makes any sense, with its perfectly horizontal endings on "C" and "S" and "t", so the round "O" seemed more likely. Mattel nearly tripped me up too, but I noticed that Helvetica was bolder throughout than the Arial equivalent, so it wasn't hard.
O isn't perfectly round in Helvetica. The Toyota logo is modified to use perfect circles for the Os. The real O is a bit rounder than in Arial maybe, but still not a circle. Futura is the one with the perfect circles (for both O and o).
I used the same rational. Whichever font looked bolder, I choose and got it correct. Also, the Staples Arial version didn't have the "registered" mark so I got that one easily.
But in the Mattel example, Helvetica is the thinner font. Instead notice the varying letter width, the M being wider than the A with Helvetica in the Mattel example.
actually a was bored after ten right answers or so. It was really easy. At first I only looked for what "looked better" because I generally like Helvetica but find Arial really ugly. After doing the first answers, I started to see the minor differences and now understand why I like Helvetica better.
It should be true if the Arial examples were provided with comparable weights. That is, assuming, that the two fonts were weighted similarly from their base.
Same here, I had only MATTEL and TOYOTA wrong for that reason.
All the rest I had immediately, on the very first image there was 50% chance I had it right and I did a lucky guess, from then on I knew Helvitica was horizontal, Arial slanted.
The perfectly round Os in toyota are the giveaways. I got them all correctly, except for MATTEL for which the only difference is the stroke width; and which I ended up flipping a coin for (incorrectly).
That said, I did get a degree in graphic design, so I may not be typical when it comes to this.
I have three degrees in CS, and I (correctly) answered the titular question with "No", and then proceeded to prove it with 10/20 on the button.
I notice the differences (slanted terminals, narrower "A"s, etc.), but had no clue which was which. Weirdly, I'm super-picky about typefaces, but mostly in a "I like what I like" sense rather than a "I know the precise details about why" sense. I dislike both Helvetica and Arial intensely, and so never bothered to learn much about what made them different. They're both just fonts I don't choose for anything.
I noticed the round Os in TOYOTA also -- for MATTEL, the height ratio between the top two and bottom two horizontal bars on the E is more even in Helvetica than Arial.
I picked the one with the longest distance between the T and the E. That was the wrong answer.
This quizz is an excellent training though. I didn't know anything at all about typography prior to taking the test (never bothered to learn the names of the fonts or their shapes), ended up scoring 17/20.
You don't even have to know anything about typography. Without knowing anything about any typeface, after guessing and comparing the results of first few, I was able to nail 13 of 14.
I guess that anyone who knows anything about typography would answer correctly to all questions.
Clue: I went for bolder font. Also, Helvetica is a bit wider in these logos. After that, I also noticed the clue in C.
In the cases with capital A's, you can tell by the spacing between the two "legs" of the `A`. Helvetica is more compact. The space inside `O` is more compact for Helvetica as well.
In the Mattel example they both look kerned about the same to me (the A tucked under the T). Elsewhere in this thread it is pointed out that Helvetica uses varying letter widths and that's the only giveaway I see now in Mattel, though it's somewhat difficult to see due to the kerning. But the M is clearly wider than the A with Helvetica.
The Toyota one is actually pretty obvious when you look at the O's - Helvetica O's are perfect circles, where Arial ones are flattened. As a Toyota fan, to me it makes a big difference. Arial is very unacceptable in this case.
Yeah, the Mattel one was the only one that wasn't instantly obvious. Just happens to have the only few letters in Arial and Helvetica that are actually comparable. 3M was the funniest, looks shocking in Arial.
20/20. Mattel was the only one I was uncertain of, but the correct answer was slightly blurrier, due to it probably being an actual logo copy scaled down or up slightly, as opposed to a "freshly-made" duplicate for the purpose of the test.
Toyota was easy enough, as the capital "O" in Helvetica is more oval than round in Arial, and more round than oval in Helvetica.
I'm not a designer, I'm a developer, but I do enjoy typography.
> the capital "O" in Helvetica is more oval than round in Arial, and more round than oval in Helvetica.
The Os in the Toyota logo have been modified and made more round, though. This is what "TOYOTA" looks like in plain Helvetica: http://myfonts.us/td-RQ1hNh
The Os in the Arial and Helvetica are practically identical.
18/20, and I'm no design/typography expert. As others have said, it was on capitals. But the point of the site is clearly to show people can't tell the difference, and I can.
I'm no designer nor typographer and got a 16. I felt that most of the time the Helvetica variant was heavier (as in, more bold) most of the time. I had no idea of the different R and of the right angled stroke.
Yes, the differences are easy to see, as everyone has said.
But the important part is that there's a difference in feel and theme that's not really measurable and identifiable in direct comparison.
The subtle difference is far more important than trying to identify the tiny details that don't really matter. And in that sense, this game (while fun and interesting) misses the point.
Hypothesis: The difference in feeling that some people get from fonts is like the difference in feeling many people get when they pay a lot for the wine they drink. It's subconscious. It feels like a real feeling. It just isn't driven by the actual experience of the product.
In the wine world, it is possible to isolate this effect using blind taste tests. In the font world, there seems to be no robust way to show a font expert Helvetica without letting them recognize that it's Helvetica.
Or like Stradivarius in classical music. There have been blind tests when a contemporary violin was mistaken for the Strad. Yet classical musicians still covet the Strad - my theory being that it makes people listen with this subconscious effect you've been talking about. Same sound, but if we believe it comes from a Strad, it seems better.
I don't think that analogy stands. You can tell there's something different between them, specially on a full page of text, without knowing what typeface it is at all. Helvetica is slightly more elegant. That said, it is no surprise that it's hard to tell the difference since one is a rip-off of the other.
It's entirely measurable. Helvetica has slightly heavier strokes, which are finished at right angles or closer to that than Arial, and prefers verticals and horizontals in general compared to Arial.
I've always heard the Helvetica snobbery (and haven't used Windows much since the 90s) so I was a little surprised to find that in most cases, I found the Arial logo more attractive. Helvetica has a little more "heavy-handed" feel to it which worked for short words in all-caps, but I thought the lighter look of Arial worked better for the rest.
Horses for courses, but you're in the minority. Helvetica is pretty widely considered a more aesthetically appealing font, especially amongst those who have a lot of points of reference.
It's like art: you develop more sophisticated tastes as you're exposed to better things. It's hard to say this without sounding snobbish, but if all you've seen is Arial, you'll find Arial familiar and comfortable. But the more time you spend looking at good typography, the more Arial will start to hurt your eyes.
http://typewar.com/ quizzes you on letters from an increasing number of fonts, and scores you according to how many other people got a particular matchup correct. They also have "quests" that focus on a particular challenge, including Arial vs. Helvetica. http://typewar.com/quests/ I think my favorite part of the site is the statistics on how many people are confused by particular matchups.
It's the "r" that's usually the give away. However, I would have to say that the capital "S" is also a giveaway, and the I'd have to say that the letters with Helvetica are somewhat fatter...
This one is fairly easy simply because they show you a comparison. In reality, if they showed you only one type of font and if they had asked you to identify which font it was (Arial or Helvetica), then it would have been a REAL challenge :)
I used the following heuristics (some parts added afterwards):
1. Helvetica has level edges, Arial is angled (as ef4 said). Particularly important were "t", "e" and "a", "S", "G", C".
2a. For capital letters, if there is an "R", the Helvetica one is curved in the bottom right part while Arial uses a straight line.
2b. For a capital "Y", the Arial one has the same length in all directions while the Helvetica one is shorter at the bottom. (Alexx indicated a difference).
2c. The jags/gaps in the capital "M" extend further to the top for Arial. This can be used to figure out MATTEL.
3. Otherwise, the one that looks fatter is Helvetica.
The thing that gave away the Mattel logo was the E. Apparently, the middle bar of the capital E in Arial is not equidistant from the outer bars, whereas the E in Helvetica has equally-spaced bars. (Or legs, or whatever the hell they are.)
This was just something I noticed for the first time while going through.
183 comments
[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 222 ms ] thread— Terminals at right angles to the stroke. http://c.jon.gd/image/3Q0y2u323j3C . Arial looks particularly sloppy with jaunty terminals. It is possible to have a similar grotesque sans-serif feel with offset terminals (see Univers & Akzidenz Grotesk) but they're a crucial part of what give Helvetica its character. - The uppercase R. Has a really strong leg compared to Arial's half-assed flaky leg.
Suggestion: wrong response page has a small graphic that emphasises a difference between Arial and Helvetica. e.g. the shape of the top part of the lower case r, &c
Then you have a teaching tool...
There are obvious tells in almost all of them -- mostly lowercase "s", "c", etc, in which Helvetica is has perfectly level edges and arial is angled.
The only harder ones are some of the all caps examples like TOYOTA.
I couldn't see any difference between Mattel and Toyota.
Mattel was also the one that tripped me up.
As the GP said, the caps on the S, C, T, etc were usually the giveaways.
The flourish at the bottom right (not sure the correct term) of the R in TARGET gave me at moment's pause. But each of the logos was customized to an extent.
It's funny, because I universally prefer Helvetica over Arial otherwise.
Lowercase Helvetica characters never end on an angle. They are always flat and either parallel on the bottom or the edge of the screen.
Toyota was a pure guess for me.
All the rest I had immediately, on the very first image there was 50% chance I had it right and I did a lucky guess, from then on I knew Helvitica was horizontal, Arial slanted.
For uppercase, the tip offs are the following:
* The capital A in Helvetica is narrower (more isoceles and less equilateral)
* The capital G has an extra hatch on the right side (looks like an arrow and not an L)
* The capital R does not have a straight leg in Helvetica
* Conversely, arial chooses a non-straight hatch mark for the Q whereas Helvetica's Q hatch is straight.
This image provides a good overview on the capital (and numeric) differences: http://cdn.ilovetypography.com/img/gqr.gif
In the case of TOYOTA where it seems that kerning might different in two images, the heavier strokes in Helvetica should tip that off.
That said, I did get a degree in graphic design, so I may not be typical when it comes to this.
I notice the differences (slanted terminals, narrower "A"s, etc.), but had no clue which was which. Weirdly, I'm super-picky about typefaces, but mostly in a "I like what I like" sense rather than a "I know the precise details about why" sense. I dislike both Helvetica and Arial intensely, and so never bothered to learn much about what made them different. They're both just fonts I don't choose for anything.
This quizz is an excellent training though. I didn't know anything at all about typography prior to taking the test (never bothered to learn the names of the fonts or their shapes), ended up scoring 17/20.
http://snth.net/~rlk/image/helvetica-vs-arial-2.png
In this comparison, the capital E's are identical, so perhaps MATTEL used a different weight Helvetica?
I guess that anyone who knows anything about typography would answer correctly to all questions.
Clue: I went for bolder font. Also, Helvetica is a bit wider in these logos. After that, I also noticed the clue in C.
For "Mattel" my choice ended being random.
Toyota was easy enough, as the capital "O" in Helvetica is more oval than round in Arial, and more round than oval in Helvetica.
I'm not a designer, I'm a developer, but I do enjoy typography.
The Os in the Toyota logo have been modified and made more round, though. This is what "TOYOTA" looks like in plain Helvetica: http://myfonts.us/td-RQ1hNh
The Os in the Arial and Helvetica are practically identical.
But the important part is that there's a difference in feel and theme that's not really measurable and identifiable in direct comparison.
The subtle difference is far more important than trying to identify the tiny details that don't really matter. And in that sense, this game (while fun and interesting) misses the point.
Does this feel different? I can see the slanted Arial terminations but I don't "feel" the different mood.
In the wine world, it is possible to isolate this effect using blind taste tests. In the font world, there seems to be no robust way to show a font expert Helvetica without letting them recognize that it's Helvetica.
It's like art: you develop more sophisticated tastes as you're exposed to better things. It's hard to say this without sounding snobbish, but if all you've seen is Arial, you'll find Arial familiar and comfortable. But the more time you spend looking at good typography, the more Arial will start to hurt your eyes.
http://www.ms-studio.com/articlesarialsid.html
1. Helvetica has level edges, Arial is angled (as ef4 said). Particularly important were "t", "e" and "a", "S", "G", C".
2a. For capital letters, if there is an "R", the Helvetica one is curved in the bottom right part while Arial uses a straight line.
2b. For a capital "Y", the Arial one has the same length in all directions while the Helvetica one is shorter at the bottom. (Alexx indicated a difference).
2c. The jags/gaps in the capital "M" extend further to the top for Arial. This can be used to figure out MATTEL.
3. Otherwise, the one that looks fatter is Helvetica.
This was just something I noticed for the first time while going through.