Wow. This is why I like Apple. Despite all of the business rationale for this move, it actually feels like Apple cares for its early adopters. Whether they do or not is immaterial; the effect is still the same, it feels sincere.
I think most early buyers would prefer a $200 cash rebate rather than a $100 gift certificate to the Apple store. Especially since almost everything in there is above the $100 level.
I think the gesture's nice, but it's definitely not completely fair.
I think buyers of the iPhone would have been reasonable in assuming that their device would remain at its launch price for at least three months. It's really atypical to drop the price on electronics so quickly, and it really does slight early adopters. If I were one, I would be pissed.
B) No one is forcibly stopping you from expressing your opinion. We can even still see your comment. Whining "look at me I'm being censored" when people disagree with you is dumb.
How you mod me (or not) is your perogative. However, I think the practice of modding people down on a piece of pure opinion is about as dumb as it gets. I make a habit of modding up anyone in the ditches (0 karma or lower) who made the 'mistake' of expressing an unpopular opinion. Why silence opposition?
That's a bit dramatic. How does downmodding "silence" you?
I think it's time to add another principle to the evolving news.yc list of house rules: don't add comments that do nothing more than complain about people downmodding you. This whole branch of the thread is a waste of pixels.
I agree this little detour is pretty wasteful, but while we're on it, I might as well clarify. The silencing comes by way of a disincentive to post your opinion, at least until it's clear that no one's going to downmod you for it. How powerful that disincentive is hinges mostly on how much you care for your karma. Even if you don't care at all, it's an expression that the community's not really welcoming you/your opinions. Ultimately, I think it leads down the path of group think, but maybe that's too dramatic as well. Anyway, I'm more than done here. My apologies for the derailing.
Ohh, let's spice up the Leaders page. Those are (I know how hard they are to earn) hard earned karma points. People should at least get to show their web app if they are in the leaders section. Or change the colors. Either way, it's a point of pride among those on it. Or let's increase the size of the Leaderboard to reflect growing YC traffic, or have a 'Most Karma' this month.
I'd love a free link without nofollow on the leaders page. I'm not sure that it's actually a good idea to have rewards for the highest karma, it seems like a bad idea to make the karma overly meaningful.
I also put this on the features page, but I think separating submission karma from comments karma would also be a useful expansion. Perhaps a few columns of leaders using different metrics would work. For example, top leaders, top submission leaders, top comment leaders, and then maybe some time ones, like upcoming comment leaders, etc.
Who honestly cares about Karma? I find it useful if I want to skim the posts/comments for a good one, but holding it up like it was some kind of achievement just distorts the whole point of the site, which is to keep up on things in startup-land. When you spend your entire day working on your karma score, you might as well go play WoW. No offense Paul, but WoW has way better 3d graphics!
I am so pissed that my million dollar cancer treatment has come down in price to $500. I mean, sure, I got treated two months ago, and I would be dead right now had I not, but that wasn't the point. Living is nice, but what I really wanted from this cancer treatment was to live while others who couldn't afford it died. I guess there is some small consolation in the fact that a lot of people died during a couple months there, but this whole thing just pisses me off. I don't know if my slight, smug satisfaction at their deaths was worth the million bucks. On a normal technology schedule, I would expect at least a year of deaths; didn't Apple know we were counting on that? I hate you Apple.
Basically the iphone had a $200 smugness cost built-in that provided way more than $200 of smugness, so all the smug seekers made out well--for a while. They forgot to factor in the fact that the smugness thereby provided was contingent on the absence of a near-future "now who's smug?" award for those society deems "not so smug as an early iPhone adopter," which, a some short time after all the shaken chicken-bones had settled, is exactly what happened.
Let's say the iPhone was given free today instead of just price-reduced: that would make you even angrier! Imagine the gall--other people getting things! Why, if we carry out your logic to its conclusion, you'd be happy if people had to pay more tomorrow than today, as though taking from others somehow justifies and internally authenticates your existence.
Sounds like someone is bitter he didn't get an iPhone and all his rich friends did...
Just kidding. I agree with your point. It's well documented that humans get psychological satisfaction out of having more and better stuff than those around them, not just content to have the stuff to begin with. I suspect that a big part of the appeal of the iphone was the bling factor, the exclusivity of having one and showing it off during the usual weekend mating ritual. If you had spent all that money to be quirky and unique (since that is really what Apple marketing is selling), wouldn't you be pissed if suddenly your unique feature became mainstream?
If you didn't get $100 of schwing factor out of your iPhone over the last 3 months (that's only about $1/day for schwing!), then you've got only yourself to blame.
Yeah, I was just having a conversation with someone yesterday about how I would be somewhat upset that the price had dropped so much in such a short period of time. I mean there is risk involved with being the first customers of any product, but even understanding those risks you don't expect such a sharp price drop. This is really cool that they not only realize this, but respond as well.
Maybe 'screw people' is a bit strong, but let's face it... you've got to have quite a loyal following to get away with that kind of thing. Can you imagine what people would do if Microsoft pulled a similar stunt? They'd want Gates' head on a pike.
Whenever I am tempted to buy some new and cool high-end electronic product, I ask myself, "Since this thing will probably cost half as much a year from now, do I really need to own it right now?" The answer is almost always "No."
(Of course, that new iPod Touch is--SLAP! Bad consumer! No retirement fund!)
Ha! So true. And it makes even less sense to buy software right now when the same content will be cheaper within months -- DVDs that you know are going to end up in a box set, single-player video games, even hardback books.
Buying the 1st generation of an apple product is never a great idea, if you are going to be pissed off about problems or future price drops. Its just something that hardcore apple fans expect from apple and love about apple. I try and let others find the problems and buy the 2nd lot which either has more capacity or is slightly cheaper.
I guess with the iPhone a lot of the customers are first time apple customers, so they don't know how the system works.
Steve is brilliant! What can you get at an Apple store for $100? A keyboard, a mouse, or a gift card. This $100 store credit is going to end up selling MORE Apple hardware because everything is so expensive. People get to feel all warm and fuzzy again and Apple makes more money. It's amazing.
And then it's not like people who allready own an iphone are going to spend money on an iphone or an ipod...
So it's a great way to get new consumers to start buying products like the apple tv or macs....
this strategy is about gaining and maintaining market share. 'pleasing customers' is merely a pheripheral initiative to the overall strategy of market share.
jobs is an innovator, but he does it by sticking to old school traditional business strategies.
i wouldn't be surprised, if sometime in the next decade, apple is accused of 'bundling', similarly to microsoft with IE and windows. apple has been gaining market share little by little in various industries. once their share reaches a dominant position, its products will become dependent on each other. until they reach that position, jobs will be the nicest guy in the industry.
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[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 118 ms ] threadI think the gesture's nice, but it's definitely not completely fair.
B) No one is forcibly stopping you from expressing your opinion. We can even still see your comment. Whining "look at me I'm being censored" when people disagree with you is dumb.
Save the downmods for posts with poor quality.
I think it's time to add another principle to the evolving news.yc list of house rules: don't add comments that do nothing more than complain about people downmodding you. This whole branch of the thread is a waste of pixels.
If I get modded down to 0 or -1, it usually gets back up to 1 or higher. If I didn't, I probably deserved it.
Maybe the best solution is to eliminate the "leaders" page and each user's karma score from public view.
Anybody listening?
Let's say the iPhone was given free today instead of just price-reduced: that would make you even angrier! Imagine the gall--other people getting things! Why, if we carry out your logic to its conclusion, you'd be happy if people had to pay more tomorrow than today, as though taking from others somehow justifies and internally authenticates your existence.
Just kidding. I agree with your point. It's well documented that humans get psychological satisfaction out of having more and better stuff than those around them, not just content to have the stuff to begin with. I suspect that a big part of the appeal of the iphone was the bling factor, the exclusivity of having one and showing it off during the usual weekend mating ritual. If you had spent all that money to be quirky and unique (since that is really what Apple marketing is selling), wouldn't you be pissed if suddenly your unique feature became mainstream?
You can read more about the Ultimatum game that tests this here: http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9...
Apple is known to try a higher price on first releases. Thats why I never buy the first release of a product.
What of it? They thought $599 for an iPhone was fair. They're getting at least $100 more than they expected.
what a fantastic line to put in an apology email. there's only one steve jobs.
(Of course, that new iPod Touch is--SLAP! Bad consumer! No retirement fund!)
I guess with the iPhone a lot of the customers are first time apple customers, so they don't know how the system works.
I think this is exactly the problem they had with dropping the price of the iPhone. That and the fact it's been on the market for 2 months.