Exactly. It's a really nice layout, but honestly -- should the essence here (full page photo, small menu at top right, logo at top left, Title/quote in middle with "more info" button) really be "protectable" IP? I just don't see it, sorry.
That doesn't make those designers (or probably just one) honorable or talented or honest. But they have the right to clone layouts too.
It's definitely IP theft, down to the minute details like the red underline on links. The way the images uncover the footer on the bottom is really unique too.
Sorry, I wasn't being sarcastic. The links on the top right aren't standard. The footer also has a funky styling. Check out the page to see. Just from reading my comment and not examining the styling I see how it could sound sarcastic.
I thought you were being sarcastic too; these are all very common trends. The problem here isn't the fact that the layout is original (it's not), it's that the code is being ripped straight from the site.
He mentions that he found the sites due to getting odd values from google analytics, which makes me suspect that they copied the (copyrightable) page markup. That said, I agree with the comment that just selling a WordPress layout is probably going to provide him with the best outcome.
Indeed, I didn't. Note that the linked blog post didn't reference code theft specifically, and it's important to distinguish the two. Copyright violations are cut and dry, and should be condemned. Merely cloning a site design is not, and we shouldn't be lumping them together.
wow, some of those copies were just blantant. Is there a way to embed a specific string in the website (either through html or css) so later you can somehow google search anyone is copying you?
Given that they might not have very good CSS skill, you might embed a CSS comment or CSS properties which look like they do something but don't -- a would-be stealer probably wouldn't delete something which they didn't understand.
Make a premium WordPress theme based on this design, slap a price on it, and distribute through WordPress theme sites thereby creating an additional income stream for your company. I'm in Miami and I'd be happy to help.
Totally agree here. Give them a legal way to 'copy' it and you'll make some money on it. Maybe even make the copyable version easier to install and look slightly different.
1) What if someone took their design, created a template of it, and sold it on a number of website template sites - and these companies were none-the-wiser.
2) Was the design created in-house, or did they hire a designer? Some designers claim the design was all of their own doing, but it was quite obvious they "borrowed" from a template site first.
Trouble is - web site design is very fashion oriented. You can tell a 2011 site from a 2012 site. I find a lot of sites are very similar and put it down to a common fashion more often than copying. Font selection, icon colours and general layout is bound to "cluster" around a limited range of values at the leading edge. Look at the "please review our start-up" requests here on HN - most of those web sites pretty near interchangeable.
Having said all of that - copying is a no-no - taking inspiration from others - well that would be normal.
Either those companies are with a bigger/popular hosting company (IIRC The Planet was located in Houston and I guess their datacenter wasn't closed down after their acquisition) or it's a link bait.
Either way - too few information to make an educated guess.
The whois info paints a similar picture, but clustered in Australia – many of the companies seem to be in AU, with one in India and one in London.
If a number of them are being hosted in Houston, I'd say that there's clearly a connection here... one crappy "designer" selling "unique websites" to multiple unaware clients, possibly?
The propeller site I'd consider flattering imitation, at least they are in a totally different lob :)
For the other guys, talk to a lawyer or just someone who knows "legalese" well enough to formulate a serious sounding email complaining about copyright infringement and threatening with a lawsuit. And have someone with a title of "copyright lawyer" or "IP legal consultant"or anything along the lines co-sign that email. They will shit their pants and change their design (they probably hired a freelancer that copied your work...). Unless they're based in a place forsaken by the IP gods, like China or Russia, then it might get too complicated to be worth the effort on your side...
smacontech and smipropellers seem to be from India where you can't win a legal case without bribing the authorities heaviliy, unless your father himself is the head of cops or something.
And anyway, law enforcement depts there wouldn't understand what "copying the layout of a website" means.
Even better: the `_files` part in directory name indicates that they simply used "Save website to file" option in IE, which puts the dependent assets in directory named using this pattern. I imagine they just edited the HTML markup afterwards, without even bothering to check what's inside that directory.
Oh calm down. You had a good idea and started a trend. Don't whine about copiers - you're the source of great ideas, so come up with another one. That, or be the best at implementing this idea.
I think they actually copy-pasted code straight out of ideaware's source... Hence
> line 173: <script src="./smacontech_files/ideaware.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
Of course people are going to come on here and say this crap without ever looking at the source code for the websites. They didn't just steal the idea, which is fair game, they stole the code.
You can search for "Corporate ipsum" on Google chrome to get an extension which create fill text with corporate buzzwords. My colleagues (non native anglophones) fell for it a few times watching at my mockups.
We had a similar problem with a talentless rogue designer at my old agency.
It only became clear he had blatantly copied other sites after he left, unfortunately (he was also sacked from future jobs for the same thing, I suspect).
He even had the audacity to claim an award for one of his rip-offs, including attending the vegas ceremony (IIRC). I really don't know how he slept at night.
I'm not going to name names as this was a long time ago and I'm hoping he's changed his ways.
You might want to add rel="nofollow" attributes to those outgoing links. This indicates to search engines that you do not want your links to influence the other sites' rankings. Not sure if this is possible with tumblr though.
Interesting, given the copying of the js directly, you could use that to your advantage. Have it behave one way if the page is served up from an IP address you own, and slightly differently served from a foreign address.
Could be sublime, like adds a menu item/link to their pages that has "Web Design Services" that points back to you, to the silly "Get free copyrighted material here" and a link to some dubious content site. Or it could just break periodically and cause them great frustration until they give up and use something else.
This is what I was thinking, going all stuxnet on them and just subtly moving the advantage your way. The outlier is the propeller guys, they look like a site that hired a 3rd party team to build them a website, and that team ripped of this one and made it theirs. Screwing with it isn't going to send the right signal.
If you broke it in such a way that it made their site massively unprofessional or completely unusable, then they'd be forced to either redesign their site or take it offline. Either of which results in those sites no longer feeding off copied code.
I don't see any similarity at all (except for maybe some basic stuff that can be found on many websites) and including them into that "ripping off" article could be perceived as defamation. Did they just quickly switched to different design?
Wait, they've not merely copied his js, they're having him host it too? Oh exploitable. Figure out to make it benefit you. I'd have a hard time resisting the urge to play some mischief though.
No, at least the one I looked at didn't. But if they're just copy-pasting, he could add a domain check (or IP address check) and make it behave differently.
No, it just means they're difficult to enforce, and most law enforcement agencies won't act unless the dollar loss is above a fixed minimum (which differs from place to place).
If someone really wants to copy your site they will do it anyways. I think the best option if its getting this much attention is to release a pay plugin/template or just opensource it. Or as you have already done publicly shame them (not much to gain by doing this though).
When they are even referencing/loading resources from your server, you could serve some "Thx for copying my design, the invoice is on its way."-images to their pages: http://altlab.com/htaccess_tutorial.html ;)
Looks to be true, but if this is a day-to-day concern for your business things must be running themselves. Consider it a badge of honor, like your application being valuable and important enough to become warez. I'm guessing your value-add proposition goes way beyond looking good on your first page. I would however take concern with those so sloppy they are using your bandwidth.
You could easily use this to your advantage:
1. Your portfolio is now larger (my designs + people who ripped off my designs)
2. You could create a "Submit sites that ripped off our design" for your customers and create a conversation around it
3. Ask the sites to reference yours in their footer
4. Modify the ripped off source files to display modified header/footer on external sites
You should be thanking them for creating so many opportunities for you. Why not expect everything will be stolen and go from there? It's all public files in the end.
"Our designs are so awesome we have a bunch of imitators (<link> <link> <link>) but we think you'll agree that our original designs are better! Often imitated, never duplicated."
288 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 318 ms ] threadIncidently - did you check whether these are individul copies or multiple clones by one person/organisation?
Anyway, if assets are being hotlinked you could have some fun...
That doesn't make those designers (or probably just one) honorable or talented or honest. But they have the right to clone layouts too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egg_of_Columbus
That people are taking the risk of illegally copying it and being publicly shamed speaks volumes for the desirability of your design.
http://wrapbootstrap.com/preview/WB0D8R213
http://wrapbootstrap.com/preview/WB0459130
(disclosure: my site)
From your post, I get the impression that you have not yet spoken to those companies about it.
That would be a good start.
1) What if someone took their design, created a template of it, and sold it on a number of website template sites - and these companies were none-the-wiser.
2) Was the design created in-house, or did they hire a designer? Some designers claim the design was all of their own doing, but it was quite obvious they "borrowed" from a template site first.
Having said all of that - copying is a no-no - taking inspiration from others - well that would be normal.
But yeah, I didn't realize either so many just flat out copy website designs. I guess this is a pretty common thing now :(
(http://pirated-sites.com/)
They were pretty active around 2005. (http://web.archive.org/web/20050211143916/http://www.pirated...)
Either way - too few information to make an educated guess.
If a number of them are being hosted in Houston, I'd say that there's clearly a connection here... one crappy "designer" selling "unique websites" to multiple unaware clients, possibly?
For the other guys, talk to a lawyer or just someone who knows "legalese" well enough to formulate a serious sounding email complaining about copyright infringement and threatening with a lawsuit. And have someone with a title of "copyright lawyer" or "IP legal consultant"or anything along the lines co-sign that email. They will shit their pants and change their design (they probably hired a freelancer that copied your work...). Unless they're based in a place forsaken by the IP gods, like China or Russia, then it might get too complicated to be worth the effort on your side...
And anyway, law enforcement depts there wouldn't understand what "copying the layout of a website" means.
line 173: <script src="./smacontech_files/ideaware.js" type="text/javascript"></script>
It only became clear he had blatantly copied other sites after he left, unfortunately (he was also sacked from future jobs for the same thing, I suspect).
He even had the audacity to claim an award for one of his rip-offs, including attending the vegas ceremony (IIRC). I really don't know how he slept at night.
I'm not going to name names as this was a long time ago and I'm hoping he's changed his ways.
The only blatant ripoff is revoblue.com
I will reply to some of your comments in a bit.
Could be sublime, like adds a menu item/link to their pages that has "Web Design Services" that points back to you, to the silly "Get free copyrighted material here" and a link to some dubious content site. Or it could just break periodically and cause them great frustration until they give up and use something else.
Unless there was some incredible code obfuscation.
And wouldn't people who can code themselves host their own javascript, rather than hotlinking someone else's?
Probably a generous assumption.
Are there any lawyers here that could weigh in on the legality of this?
I don't see any similarity at all (except for maybe some basic stuff that can be found on many websites) and including them into that "ripping off" article could be perceived as defamation. Did they just quickly switched to different design?
I can't find a cached version of it anywhere that shows what it looked like an hour or so ago
Edit: apparently some of them are! https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5165238
This could stay hidden a lot longer.
if(document.location.hostname !== 'ideaware.co') {alert('Do not trust these thieves. They stole this design from ideaware.co');}
1. Phone home to a server they won't easily cmd+f find, with several backups
2. Allow the script to execute arbitrary javascript from said server
3. Store a list of requests and referrers
4. Alert, shame and redirect at your leisure
Obviously this will only work for future copiers that copy from your site.
You should be thanking them for creating so many opportunities for you. Why not expect everything will be stolen and go from there? It's all public files in the end.