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Ask HN: Where should I move to maximize my career potential?

7 points by ncarlson ↗ HN
Hi everyone,

I'm coming to a turning point in my life. I'll be graduating from university soon, and I'm looking forward to moving to a more hacker friendly city with brighter prospects. My question to the community here is... if you were in my position, which city would you choose?

Some background information: I'm a bit of a laggard in graduating, being that I'm 25. I spent two years abroad in Japan, and upon entering university, switched majors more than once. However, my time has been well spent, working on various software projects.

I live near Boulder right now, but I'm originally from Detroit. While the Boulder/Denver area is certainly in a better position than Detroit in terms of tech related jobs, I feel that there are better cities out there.

Here are some cities and locations I'm considering:

* Chicago

* New York

* SF Bay Area

* Seattle

* Boston

* Houston/Austin

From a lifestyle and interests standpoint, any of these cities are acceptable. However, my gut tells me that the SF Bay Area is where I should really be. Some of my tech proficiencies are a bit esoteric (read: Erlang). So I think that given the large concentration of tech related companies in the SF area, the probability of me finding a suitable job there would be greater than that in a different city. I could be totally wrong though.

What do you think?

Thanks for the help.

17 comments

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vaksel
If you want to work with the web, SF Bay Area hands down. + its the shortest move for you
earl
I've lived and worked at startups in both NYC and SF. It isn't even a contest. The amount of startup activity, the character of the companies (ie are the founders left in charge or do you have to have a Harvard MBA to pass muster with the VCs), the ecosystem surrounding the companies, cheaper housing, the ability to move between companies (you mostly can't enforce non-competes in CA) -- come to SF. Oh, and the weather.

Paul Graham will give you the same answer in a much more detailed form -- go read it.

wdr1
I'm from Chicago (and still consider it home), but without question, California is the place to be. I moved west 10 years ago and it's been a fun ride.
noodle
if everything else is equal, SF bay area. if you have other considerations that do have sway beyond brazen careerism, then that might change things. or it might not.
anamax
While SV is a reasonable answer, why isn't Japan on your list?
ncarlson
Tokyo is on my list. But it seems to have taken a back seat for the moment.

Getting a working visa in Japan is rather difficult (unless your an English teacher or highly sought executive). The process basically boils down to a company deciding to sponsor a foreign applicant.

I had plans on moving to Japan on a 90 day tourist visa once I graduated. I would use those 90 days to pound the pavement of Tokyo looking for a job. Obviously, given this small window of opportunity, I'd need to make sure to have all my cards in order. My success would depend on the strength of my resume as well as the health of the job market in Tokyo.

At this point, neither are where I want them to be. In addition to that, I've only passed JLPT (Japanese Language Proficiency Test) Level 2. I need to pass Level 1 before I am considered fluent. Thankfully, most of the cities I'm considering moving to have not only thriving Japanese communities, but also proctor the JLPT once a year.

So yes, sometime in the future I would like to eventually move back to Tokyo. But at the moment I don't see that happening.

anamax
> I need to pass Level 1 before I am considered fluent.

Is being considered fluent important compared to being fluent enough to do what you need to do?

ncarlson
I'm not sure I understand the question.

I'm not quite fluent in Japanese. Close, but not there yet. However, one's ability to pass the JLPT Level 1 with relative ease is a pretty fair indicator of fluency.

anamax
I'm asking if the credential is important or competence is adequate.

Lots of folks make it in the US who aren't "fluent" in American or even English. However, I don't know if Japan requires credentials.

menloparkbum
If you aren't Japanese, Japan is not a good place to further your career.
[deleted]
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anamax
One of my friends who has made it "biggest" in SV spent a couple of years working in Japan. He thinks that those years helped him a lot.
menloparkbum
What was he doing there? I spent a year working in Japan. It has had little impact on my career. If anything, it was a negative. It may be a different story if you go over there to start Yahoo! Japan, or launch your street fashion brand.
anamax
He worked as both an engineer and a "help sell things" person. He worked for an American company and a Japanese company. (I forget the order.)
ncarlson
Why? I disagree.

If you go over there to teach English or engage in an unrelated job, sure, it's not a healthy career move. But there are plenty of large multinational companies working out of Tokyo.

menloparkbum
Even at a large multinational, the experience you get in Japan is not applicable anywhere else. When you move somewhere else, nobody cares about your experience abroad and the language and cultural skills are no longer useful.

Few people would consider moving from the USA to Germany or France a career building move for a software developer. Yet, there is some mystique about Japan.

It might be a cool place for international banking, or importing and exporting obscure luxury items, but it's actually a bad place for a software developer. Programming is considered a low-status job for dorks. The techniques are bad and outdated. The work culture is anti-conducive to creative software development. There aren't many good Japanese programmers. The ones that are good are almost all indie developers - it's not like they're hiring. I mean, just think about it... where would you even work? Try to name 10 places where it would be good to work as a software developer in Japan.

I don't want to dissuade someone from living abroad. I've lived in Japan and Australia and had a great time. However, if I had wanted to focus on a software career it would have made more sense to just get a job at Google.