Thank you HN, sorry HN

258 points by far_far_away ↗ HN
A couple of months ago I posted a request for help here on HN [1] which somehow ended up on the front page. At that time I fought with heavy depressions - it was really bad. I did not expect my request for help to land on the front page but it did and I got what I asked for. A ton of people sent me emails with very kind words and advice. Now I am in a position where I have to do two things:

1. Thanks to everyone who offered help of any kind. I do really appreciate it. 2. Sorry that I did not respond to everyone who wrote in. I found out that reading all those email made me even more depressed somehow. I will send everyone who wrote in a personal thank you note once I am better.

With some of you I had a longer chat and one person even sent a teddy bear from the USA to Germany (where I am from). I made a picture of the teddy bear [2].

As I mentioned I got a lot of advice - even though I was not able to respond to everyone who sent me an email (sorry again). In the meantime I saw another doctor, changed the medication, changed my lifestyle and now I am feeling a bit better. I would not say that my life is worth living right now but it became better and you guys certainly helped a lot.

I would love to give something back to you but I am not sure what that should be. During the last couple of weeks I thought long and hard about that and I really would love to do something: Found a help network for hackers, somehow improve the current situation for crisis/suicide chats or something like that. So what do you think would improve the current situation of (depressed/suicidal) hackers. Please let's discuss that. Not everyone will make it on the front page when help is needed - or am I wrong?

[1] My original request for help: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4928031 [2] My new friend: http://i.imgur.com/nQQAVuc.jpg

60 comments

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As another hacker who has suffered from depression, this is an excellent idea. I know that I'd much rather talk to someone who understands my peculiar mindset instead of yet another PhD charging too much an hour.
No no no, OP doesn't have the resources... yet. You're supposed to put on your own oxygen mask before assisting others - there's a reason for that.
That's such a great analogy. And is absolutely correct. Depressives helping depressives is a great idea on its face, but falls down quickly when you haven't given yourself the opportunity for actual, serious stability before reaching out your own hand. The process of becoming healthy becomes much more complicated and difficult if you are trying to balance your own mental welfare with the welfare of others.

I was once asked what I was doing to live up to a certain person's life with whom I was associated. I said I was doing what I could for myself today so that I could do anything at all for others in the future.

I couldn't keep up with it but http://lift.do/ has a habit streak and motivation by seeing other people keeping on tasks.

Depression comes from not keeping up on tasks and losing your streak. That's when you start questioning yourself and the cycle keeps happening. There is definitely a niche need for a mentoring / motivational network for depressed people. This whole thread, and your last one, plus the momentum that came with them is proof.

"Depression comes from not keeping up on tasks and losing your streak."

I think you mixed up cause and effect. Depression mostly leads to not keeping up with what you're doing, which is the starting point of a downward spiral. Depression isn't "solved" by motivation. Depression is complex, but most times a common source is a overwhelming emotional event, which is re-felt in every down turn.

> I would love to give something back

How about telling us what helped you the most? You mention you "changed your lifestyle"—what things did you change?

"I would love to give something back to you"

You might want to help depressed hackers, but in the mean-time I'd suggest you can give far more than you'd guess. Each day, find someone you can "help" ... hold the door for someone with full arms, smile at someone who's scowling or tutor someone who's having a hard time understanding something you know well.

You'll certainly brighten their day, but you'll also find the satisfaction in being helpful (with no expectation of any compensation) will improve your mood too. Don't believe me? Try it for 30 days ... and if at some point you believe your life isn't worth living right now, think of what the people you've helped would say about your life.

Furthermore, your vocal call for help and openness toward depression may have helped many who are suffering in silence and have now gone to seek help.
Resources for depressed hackers are pretty poor. You hear of burnout, chronic fatigue, moving someplace isolated -- but rarely the "d-word" in hacker circles. Offering your story is a great start. There's a "Geeks and Depression" list you may be interested in.
Resources for depressed hackers are pretty poor.

For hackers suffering from depression, please don't resist getting help because you can't find resources specifically for hackers.

In the case of support groups, it's nice to be with people who share a similar background as you. But I think you'll find that the shared experience with depression will massively overcome what shared experience you lack on the job or as a hobby.

Please get help. It's not an exaggeration to say it could be the difference between life and death. The path downward is often a long, gentle slope. While you're on it, it feels like flat ground. You don't realize you've hit the lowest elevation until... well, you just stop walking.

HackersHelp I'm in! I really love the Idea! A good starting point for these sorts of things has always been founding an IRC-channel ;)
I'm not sure if you owe anyone anything. Ultimately the right kind of people lend their voice to supporting someone because someone did it for them. if you paid them back somehow, would it be the same as taking the time to support someone else in your future when you come across a situation.

Being given to or cared for unimaginably often makes us feel like sharing it, be it giving it back, or doing it for others. Whatever you do, know that there's probably more than a few people that would probably be happiest if you join them in being a giver and keeping kindness and goodness fashionable. In other words your gratitude is not a debt to repay, but maybe another chance to participate in our universal responsibility for our human family by helping others not feel alone, and maybe a little more understood.

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I think this is a fine place for these issues now, as they're important to the community and the reaction has been positive. It will help drive awareness and encourage others to seek help. Unless of course he successfully creates a help net work, then it might be time to fork off to there :)
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Although it sounds like you are joking, I just want to note that this can be quite a dangerous approach. Depression isn't just "very sad, needs help to cheer up". Depression is a neurochemical problem possibly caused by or exacerbated by environmental effects. Amateur psychology and "the power of positive thinking" are the equivalent of homeopathy. They work for some, but not reliably better than the placebo effect.

Depressed people need head doctors in much the same way that physically injured people need body doctors. For mild cases "walk it off" might work (in both head- and body- problems), but depression is more like a broken bone than it is like a mildly sprained ankle.

I went through the same thing. A support group works. What helps me the most is vitamins, water and exercise. I also stopped spiking caffeine (I take a time release capsule) and stopped drinking alcohol.

Vitamins (every morning with food): Vitamin C 1000mg (energy and health) B-12 3000mcg (happy energy) Magnesium 400mg (focus and mood moderation) Fish Oil - EPA 120mg + DHA 900mg (memory + mood moderation) L-Carnitine 200mg (precursor for acetylcholine neurotransmitter) Time release caffeine (8 hours of stable energy with no spikes)

This has helped me completely conquer my mood swings (depression as well as ADD) and has made a huge impact on my enjoyment of life.

Yes, yes, yes a thousand times to stop drinking alcohol. My moods leveled out substantially once I stopped drinking. Granted, I have what is traditionally known as a problem with alcohol so YMMV, but from personal experience it's been the best decision I've made by far. (I could go on for paragraphs about alcohol and programming culture, but I'll shelve the off topic proselytizing for later.)

More important than anything else, if you're having depression issues, it's important to remember that you can always change your story. You're not locked into anything (well, most things) in your life. True, some things are harder to shed than others, but if you're depressed enough where it affects you on a monumental, daily basis, just remember you can change it. Stop engaging in activities that make you feel like shit. Cut acquaintances (even family) out of your life that bring you down. Drop out of life for awhile if you need to - the people who truly care about you will understand. Anything is ultimately better than the alternatives of a quick demise or a bleak existence, both for you (primarily) and the people around you.

It gets better is an overused cliche, but it holds some merit. You can make it better.

(on a side note, time release caffeine sounds incredible.)

I think a support network for depressed hackers is a great idea, and I'd love to help out in some way (though I'm sort of lacking in technical skill).

That said, I also agree with what dandrews says: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5348693 Don't overexert yourself trying to help. If you think helping others will help you, then sure, go right ahead! But please be focused on your own recovery. We'll need a stable leader if we want to do this right ;)

"I would love to give something back to you but I am not sure what that should be."

I would worry about creating an obligation that would require you to have anxiety and other issues by not being able to fulfill the obligation. While it's nice and might make you feel good to give back it's hard to believe that it wouldn't be better to simply try to get yourself stronger without the obligation of doing for others. For now.

After all even the simple act of "replying to all that wrote" appears to be more than you can handle right now. I'm sure some of those people would want to be acknowledged for taking the time to write.

Heck, if an avalanche of correspondence fell on any of us, depressed or not, it may well be overwhelming beyond the point of being able to answer it all!

In any case, I would add that the set of actions that matter and make a difference is not a perfect subset of the actions that feel like they're important. That is to say, you never know when something that seems like a small act on your part can change someone else's day...

So, to that end, though I missed the OP's original post, I'd challenge him or her to simply believe in some purpose – find something every morning that makes it worth interacting with others (and try to do so in a generous way) and you're likely to make a real impact, even if you're never aware of it.

Serving others is one of the best ways to get one's mind off oneself and combat depression. I would actually exhort you to commit to doing some kind of service / help for someone else. Start small. Thank you for sharing your story.
Want to echo this and also recommend reading the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, for some tactical advice on how to 'serve' others in small ways. Good luck!
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While the HN crowd have lots of things in common, especially those things that make us human, what things are you especially proud of, strengths that you feel are somewhat unique to you, the things you really enjoy doing and the kinds of problems you prefer tackling?
Today you, tomorrow me. Don't worry about it.
As someone that you corresponded with a bit I am glad to hear you got help and got your problems sorted.

I want to share a bit why I wanted to help with the rest of HN. I throughout my life thought many ailments were my "problem", ranging from simple depression, bipolar, alcoholism, drug dependancy and tried the methods successful for each one to "cure me" to no avail.

A couple of years ago however a psychologist gave me his opinion of ADD. Just simply knowing what it was has helped me enormously. It gave me a set of tools to fight the issue. It turns out that all of those other things were epiphenomena of the ADD, parts of the vicious cycle of the upswing when you start seeing the light, elation with a new achieved high you get from some measure of success, followed by the eventual downfall and depression when you see that you are still not making headway. This cycle would repeat and still affects me a bit.

In my case what helped was a stricter regiment of food supplements (especially D, Omega, B6, B12 and calcium) and using Mountain Dew (yes, I know it's a horrid substance) to elevate myself in the afternoon. This coupled with Mindfulness meditation allows me to stay relatively productive. I'm in the process of getting medication for ADD after reading Flower for Algernon and realizing that refusing medication is akin to Charlie refusing the operation (read the book if you haven't, it's remarkably well written).

Before this realization and change in behavior I was flunking out of CompSci @ University. After that change I managed a whole year of full coursework and graduation. I managed to get a job and am managing to achieve the goals we (me and my boss) set for my work.

My point is: You might think you have a specific problem but in reality you might have another problem, but the symptom is what you notice. ADD should really have been obvious when you look @ my life a certain way (having studied everything from medicine to economics to accounting to philosophy and finally CompSci). I had seen many professionals and only one of them hit the proper diagnosis. The funny thing was once I knew the problem, I had tons of tools I had learned about elsewhere to combat it and the only reason I think he was right is that the methods worked!

One of the things that keep me focused is helping others. It kinda gives me a good reason to maintain myself in fit spiritual condition (agnostic, spiritual here simply means connected with my fellow man). A friend of mine is graduating this spring and he tells me he wouldn't be, if I weren't helping him with his maths. Once he graduates, I need to find someone else to help. It gives me strength to know that the help I received, I can pay forward. I'm glad far_far_away is doing that too.

I've been neglecting my ADHD for two years now and I finally set up an appointment. I keep having the same high and lows and the cycle doesn't stop and it doesn't feel right conforming but I'm going to try the pills anyways and see if it helps.

It's nothing that I worried about but I didn't want to keep neglecting suggestions and missing an opportunity for something that can turn out to be a benefit that increases the productivity of my lifestyle.

Sometimes that's what it takes, the only way you'll figure out if you don't need them is by trying them out.

Pills are just one part of a solution. Proper framing of your routine is important. Goal-oriented training is also good. Lack of focus is our dilemma. Everything that gets us on a track and keeps us there is beneficial.
I used to use Google Tasks, and then that became a data dump of information and ideas of what to do next (personally) and what to do next (business wise) on top of what to do next (on specific projects and different projects). Then I switched to gqueues, then some other to dos that I don't remmeber, I think the standard one that comes on the iPod and other ones..the last one I used was any.do + some sort of combination of things to read with evernote.

They (any.do+evernote) are still the same data dump and nothing really beats off my current set up which is simply google calendar, post it notes on mirrors and walls, behind doors and other places. That's the reminder and keeping in focus part. What I'm really looking for is a Google Glass AR app to visualize statistics and basically the game of life and to have it in my field of vision at least turned on every 15 minutes throughout my whole day.

It's funny that people with ADHD, or any other mental condition are more prone to accept transhumanistic technology without worrying about dehumanization.

I'm completely fine walking with a Vegeta-like scouter to stay on task. Eventually it'll become habit, like the post it notes.

I can also completely accept some sort of solar powered tattoo, in the shape of a watch or anything that'll allow the tattoo to create a hologram, that beams like a simple pager of my next thing to do, powered with an API transmitted through my phone through Bluetooth.

You know one of these days I'll tackle funding a project that helps ADHD people with different ways of learning and tackling tasks.

I so totally relate to your way of thinking. For me it was Google Cal and Android sync. The droid was simply an extension of the web interface pinging me with things to do and where to go.
Giving up is easy, Continuing is Hard, is what most people think, but though the first part is true, Continuing in face of mounting odds is easy, if you just follow a good health regime, and keep yourself surrounded by people you can talk to and be with at ease.

Every life is worth living, you just need to ask for help at the right place, and people will help you see how important your life is.

Yes, their can be a separate tag SAVE@HN for threads from HN users in distress, If it even helps save 1 life, it would be damn worth it!

Just make sure you have a good life, maybe it's the best thing you can give back. A gratitude for yourself.
The best thing you can do is take care of yourself. Seriously.

The first rule of search-and-rescue is "don't be a victim." Make sure you are taking good care of you.

Your life is most definitely worth living, even though it may not feel like it. You can rest assured of that.
Focus on getting better right now. You have your life in front of you and once you beat this you will have ample opportunity to pay back to the larger community. Please accept that you don't own anyone anything right now and the best you can do it focus on what you need to get better. Its ok to feel the kindness of others when you are in need.

Also, thanks for being so open. Continuing that openness and building a support group for yourself through that is something which helped me through a similar situation.

Volunteer somewhere like a soup kitchen or something like that on our behalf. Give love and you will feel love.
A thank you letter is not homework, and has no due date. If you feel like you have to reply to every body remember that you are not on a schedule. Take your time. You are the one in need of help.
I don't think you should feel obligated to give back. Just focus on your recovery. Maybe the next time a "depressed hacker" thread pops up, post your own experiences and what worked for you.
Very glad to hear, you are getting better now :)
I'm glad the world seems like a brighter place now. I didn't see your original request, but I know some of that feeling. Keep with it. Picking yourself up, and letting others pick you up is something to be really proud of.