Huge improvement, that really looks great. One cool feature you could look into is an interactive terminal like http://www.codecademy.com/ has on their homepage.
Great work!
Some thoughts from a purely personal perspective, take them as you will:
- I often refer non-programmers to python.org when they ask what that "Python" thing I do all day is. If this is a significant portion of your traffic, I might move the "Python is a programming language..." bit higher up the page.
- "Integrate systems more effectively" doesn't mean much to me, but if the landing page is a tool for devs to convince their managers to let them use the language, could make sense.
- I don't love calling the list 'l' given that many beginners wind up here. It can look like a "1" to those not used to monospace, and is confusing. Come to think of it, the whole beginning example would be very obtuse to anyone not familiar with programming at all: one of the things I love about Python is that it's easy to introduce to a total beginner, with something like "it's like learning French or Italian, not a bunch of random symbols".
- I personally love the way you do the main dropdowns.
- The topbar is nice too, but a bit less noticeable to me than maybe it should be. I think some tooltip-provided explanation (or similar) of PyPi, saying "Package Index", might help those new to Python but aware of what a package index is. This might be unnecessary though.
- The location (and naming) of the "Socialize" link doesn't make much sense to me. What does it have to do with Search? Also unsure why there's the font +/- link there; do you often hear that browser settings are insufficient?
I'm exited to see what I think is a terrific update to the beloved Python homepage. Best of luck!
"I might move the "Python is a programming language..." bit higher up the page."
If you look at the site with a text browser like lynx then this is even more important. Lots of menus and other things that assume you know what's going on, then finally on the next page break or two an explanation. Make that all but topmost.
(And y'all ought to view your sites with a text browser once in awhile, it will give you a rough idea of the experience of people using browsers for visual and other impairments.)
I certainly like the frontpage look, a lot more up to date than the current site. I tend to prefer less weight in the header on inner pages. While it is nice and prominent, it does push the stuff that returning users will be interested in further down the page. I really liked the popups on the main nav.
Looks great. That example on the front page might want to pick a different variable name, though. It sort of looks like you're using the number 1 as the variable.
Fucking sexy, only immediate criticism is the PSF link looks disabled because it's the only unsaturated label color. It feels very "coming-soon" and not very "click on me!"
I loaded the page in other browsers and saw my comment, but now there are like 20 others saying the same thing but my comment id is the predecessor to the one that's at the top (so i was first ;] ). what symptom tells you I was hellbanned?
@bobx11 - you weren't hellbanned, @jacobian was. But no one can reply to a comment from a hellbanned user, so the custom is to reply to a parent comment in the hope that the hellbanned user may see it.
If you had been hellbanned yourself, then you would see your own comments, but other users wouldn't see them unless they enabled "showdead" in their HN settings. And non-logged-in visitors would never see them. So viewing an HN page you've commented on from an incognito window is a good way to check that.
That wouldn't surprise me at all. The visual design of a website can engage a user or drive a user away. The current python.org just presents the user with an unfriendly wall of text which make it difficult to get one's bearings.
This is especially important for accommodating users with conditions like ADHD.
It looks OK but if one is going to hire top notch agencies and spend a decent bit of money, I don't see why the design should look this dated and cluttered. Too many navbars and buttons everywhere and tons of gradients and rounded corners are emphasizing almost everything on the page. Isn't this kind of gradient-heavy stuff dated to 5-10 years ago?
Looks nice, but my first thought when I looked at the code example:
1 >>> l = ['spam', 'ham', 314, 23]
was "wait, how are they assigning a list to the number 1? How is that possible? Oh... that's an l". (Not a fan of that. I'm half blind (figuratively) so these things confuse me.)
+1 to this. I was drawn to Code Academy because I could immediately start playing around with code on the home page. (At least it used to be like that. Not sure anymore.)
I'd suggest improving the colour scheme of the code window, dark green on dark grey background is not very legible. Maybe steal some colors from the Sphinx doc colour scheme?
Yep, that was my first reaction as well. However, the idea of preview can be extended, codeacademy style. Make a small python interpreter in js, that people can try in, that gives them an interactive tutorial for python.
Love the design and architecture, and really love the success stories. I remember struggling to sell a dated financial enterprise company on the benefits of Python, and those case studies would have really helped.
It looks a lot better than the current site! A few criticisms:
1) The line numbers and spacings on the list example are confusing: The examples come from an interactive session, but the presence of line numbers suggest that it's a script. Also the spacing is inconsistent with what you'd get if you typed that into the standard python shell.
2) I think the drop down menus from the top of the page are much bigger and obtrusive than they need to be. When I opened the page, my mouse went over the "Success Stories" tab, and I saw a big white "Google" logo in the middle of the page. The eye is naturally drawn to it, and I spent a second or two like, "What is that doing there?" until I figured it out.
3) Maybe I would have a slideshow or "arrow-buttons" with more python examples than just the list. Basic usage of a list doesn't sell python as hard as, say, list comprehensions, arbitrarily large integers, and/or manipulating sets.
Under the font menu (next to 'Go' button) there is a small separator between 'Larger' and 'Reset' options. It does not have any label but acts like 'Larger' option and increases the font when clicked.
If it is just a separator it should not increase the font. Else it should have proper label.
Maybe I've grown too used to the current design, but my first reaction is - yuck, too much like a http://everyfuckingwebsite.com/ clone. I'll try to articulate my dislike as something constructive, and submit feedback directly.
Sometimes the obvious problems are really hard to put a finger on. The new design for example tries too hard to look good, almost de-emphasizing the message.
The fact that they are even previewing the website with dummy content tells me that they are focusing on the wrong things.
I think you did put your finger on it! You describe it perfectly. It's got that trying too hard feel. There's just so much of it. It kind of reminds of those fully flash websites. Too much "look pretty."
There's also a bit of information overload going on in the menus. I don't know. I'm not entirely a fan of the bold colors. I personally would have just liked an iteration of the current site, rather than a full revamp.
Something along the lines of Github's clean white background and minimalistic layout would, I think, suit a Python site very well.
164 comments
[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 271 ms ] threadGreat stuff.
- I often refer non-programmers to python.org when they ask what that "Python" thing I do all day is. If this is a significant portion of your traffic, I might move the "Python is a programming language..." bit higher up the page.
- "Integrate systems more effectively" doesn't mean much to me, but if the landing page is a tool for devs to convince their managers to let them use the language, could make sense.
- I don't love calling the list 'l' given that many beginners wind up here. It can look like a "1" to those not used to monospace, and is confusing. Come to think of it, the whole beginning example would be very obtuse to anyone not familiar with programming at all: one of the things I love about Python is that it's easy to introduce to a total beginner, with something like "it's like learning French or Italian, not a bunch of random symbols".
- I personally love the way you do the main dropdowns.
- The topbar is nice too, but a bit less noticeable to me than maybe it should be. I think some tooltip-provided explanation (or similar) of PyPi, saying "Package Index", might help those new to Python but aware of what a package index is. This might be unnecessary though.
- The location (and naming) of the "Socialize" link doesn't make much sense to me. What does it have to do with Search? Also unsure why there's the font +/- link there; do you often hear that browser settings are insufficient?
I'm exited to see what I think is a terrific update to the beloved Python homepage. Best of luck!
If you look at the site with a text browser like lynx then this is even more important. Lots of menus and other things that assume you know what's going on, then finally on the next page break or two an explanation. Make that all but topmost.
(And y'all ought to view your sites with a text browser once in awhile, it will give you a rough idea of the experience of people using browsers for visual and other impairments.)
From now on, the snake will be able to compete head to head with a certain pink rock (in terms of attractive homepages) :)
If you had been hellbanned yourself, then you would see your own comments, but other users wouldn't see them unless they enabled "showdead" in their HN settings. And non-logged-in visitors would never see them. So viewing an HN page you've commented on from an incognito window is a good way to check that.
Loving the redesign - clean, functional and pretty as well.
This is especially important for accommodating users with conditions like ADHD.
Also the «socialize» dropdown on that bar doesn't look that good.
It would be interesting to do A/B testing with different code snippets.
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0008/#names-to-avoid
Something like http://repl.it/languages/Python :)
I got as far as:
before realizing I should probably stop kicking stuff out of curiosity.What are the dangers of dropping a python interpreter on a site, what are good guidelines to secure it?
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4842906
1) The line numbers and spacings on the list example are confusing: The examples come from an interactive session, but the presence of line numbers suggest that it's a script. Also the spacing is inconsistent with what you'd get if you typed that into the standard python shell.
2) I think the drop down menus from the top of the page are much bigger and obtrusive than they need to be. When I opened the page, my mouse went over the "Success Stories" tab, and I saw a big white "Google" logo in the middle of the page. The eye is naturally drawn to it, and I spent a second or two like, "What is that doing there?" until I figured it out.
3) Maybe I would have a slideshow or "arrow-buttons" with more python examples than just the list. Basic usage of a list doesn't sell python as hard as, say, list comprehensions, arbitrarily large integers, and/or manipulating sets.
If it is just a separator it should not increase the font. Else it should have proper label.
The fact that they are even previewing the website with dummy content tells me that they are focusing on the wrong things.
There's also a bit of information overload going on in the menus. I don't know. I'm not entirely a fan of the bold colors. I personally would have just liked an iteration of the current site, rather than a full revamp.
Something along the lines of Github's clean white background and minimalistic layout would, I think, suit a Python site very well.
I could just be me fearing change, though..
Granted, it is a bit easier to make a succinct website for something like Git rather than the entire Python project.