So i've made this stool rocks file available for free. (Creative Commons - non-commercial) http://fabsie.com/store/this-stool-rocks/
So far a school in alberta, canada are making it and a guy in Sweden as they sent photos. Will add more files to free download for laser cutting smaller models.
Depending on designer preferences, when someone sends me a design, I will ask what license they prefer suggesting CC NC.
There are a lot of market issues with this; I just don't see this working. It's not as if CNC and automation processes are new to the furniture industry, especially for small-scale furniture makers.
Even once you automate a good deal of the production costs, there is still additional labor, materials, and expertise required.
First of all, CNC machined plywood is not sufficient for anything other than workshop-grade furniture (as in, furniture you'd use in your workshop). You need -- at a minimum:
- Edging applied to protect against splinters and damage to the veneer.
- A finish/varnish/veneer to protect the surfaces against damage/dirt/warping.
Those things involve additional semi-skilled labor and cost. On top of that, people don't usually want raw wood furniture, which means that you need different kinds of veneers and surfaces, which increases material costs and complexity.
On top of that, you're unlikely to be able to produce purely "slot constructed" furniture of any appreciable complexity. You're going to need joints. This significantly increases the costs of the machinery/tooling/design required.
Now that you've added additional materials, labor, and more complex end-user construction, your costs have gone up as well. On top of this, your production facilities need to figure out how to efficiently ship these one-off flat-pack low-end creations to your end users.
Congratulations, you're competing with Ikea, and Ikea has the cheap flat-pack mass-production process down to a science.
If you start trying to scale up to more high-end furniture production, you now have more problems.
First of all, what's described here is essentially already how furniture (and clothing, and electronics) production works, just without the "crowd sourcing". Designers, production facilities, and brand management companies come together to produce furniture for sale in retail outlets.
The problem is that each entity in the chain (design -> production -> sale) does a lot more than operate automated machinery. The machinery itself is not the major expense. The trained labor, raw materials, stock, distribution, storage, and sale of the products are where the complexity come in.
The place where you find efficiencies is in either doing this at scale, not doing this one-off. When you order a piece of furniture from a high-end company, it will be dropped into the production queue, shipped via freight some time later along with a huge batch of other furniture, distributed to large warehouses near major cities, and then pushed out to a subcontracted or directly managed furniture freight delivery service.
Trying to do this on a non-local, distributed, crowd-source bases via UPS will not be cheaper.
The only way to do this for an equivalent price is to buy furniture made, designed, and often delivered by local furniture makers. They tend to have their own workshops containing things like CNC machines, or already have access to those machines through shared workshops. Insofar as they require less skilled labor to assemble the work, they already have it.
Thanks for your comment pifflesnort. Quite a few points mentioned, so will break it up.
i) CNC - 1951 - Not new at all - However its price point is completely new dropping 10X in price since my university paid $250,000 for theirs, now $20,000. Also skills are increasing rapidly no longer limited to several schools, but being taught everywhere.
ii) There will always be costs. Given the drop in costs above to use CNC on-demand means the costs are reasonable to get this started. Ten years ago would have been impossible.
iii) Can the end-user/maker finish the stool (paint/varnish)
iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods.
> iii) Can the end-user/maker finish the stool (paint/varnish)
Given the cost of one-off production runs + shipping, why wouldn't I buy a stool that's already finished?
> iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods.
> v) With the right designs none of the additional labour you mention is needed.
Why would a consumer choose raw wood or a design like that (especially if they have to build it themselves) over a flat-pack Ikea or CB2 chair that will be better finished, possibly steal from an existing designer style, and be about the same price, if not cheaper?
You make the assumption that it is like for like. IKEA does average products for average people, it is not the Amazon of the furniture world, it is the Borders.
If we want to offer furniture specific to airbnb users that is more privacy orientated, we do so. If we want a desk for the guy that works from home with his dog and wants a desk/doghouse to suit his life, we do so. If we want a bookshelf for the phaidon buyer that needs specific bookshelf dimensions, we do so. (Or rather will do so....) Lastly, when you look at the designs done, they are mind-blowingly cool. (I used to work for one of the world's top design offices, so have a strong network there.)
I agree with many of your points, thanks for taking the time to write them, much appreciated, but want to put these challenges to the test as I strongly believe several of them can be overcome.
On the non-average product for non-average people front, I'll share my experience. Personally, my house is decorated with a mix of big brand furniture (ligne roset), smaller designer/brand management stuff (de la espada), and local (nyc/brooklyn) designed+made furniture.
The local stuff was all made-to-order, and I was able to see examples of the designer/builder's work by visiting local retail/studio spaces, and then commission custom work based on their existing designs.
A large part of my willingness to purchase something custom/one-off is based on having examples and history of quality product being produced by that designer/manufacturer.
If things are one-off cut (or assembled) by crowd-sourced people, then I'm unlikely to have much faith in the end-result. On top of this, seeing is very much believing, and (I might be unusual in this) I really need to see design in person before I'll commit.
I don't see how it's possible to separate responsibility for design from responsibility for production. When I buy a brand-name or local designer's work, it's their brand that is associated with the produced product. The same exists in electronics -- foxconn might assemble Apple's iPhones, but Apple's name is riding on the quality.
If this relationship is broken up, why would I pay premium design prices for custom designed furniture that is CNC-cut by crowd-sourced production houses and shipped to me for assembly? If I'm not paying premium design prices, how would a designer be able to afford spending time designing a custom piece of furniture for me?
I think this whole comment can be summarised by the line of 'do you trust us?' The answer is currently no which is fine, but over time, we might just win you over.
On touch, I completely agree.
- Buying something small to test out the system such as our stool we currently have on kickstarter. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jamesmcbennett/this-stoo...
- Targeting coffee shops to show the furniture
- Pop-ups and so on...
- Also seeing it at a friends house would count too.
- Creating surround sound of postive karma within a city.
Responability is an intersting one for any of these new digtial-to-physical systems. Teaching on 3D printing at General Assembly, we get deep into discussions on the wider aspects of law, quality control and future of quality marks in this new system. Great example you mention Foxconn -> Apple and Apple host reputation on the line. I think Fabsie's reputation is on the line in this case.
At the moment, crowdsourced people = some of the best designers in the best offices in the world who most people don't have access to. When I was working in design offices, most designers (architects in this case) had the problem that we wanted to design a mass product but had no platform to do so.
We are starting in Plywood and will expand into other materials. I am influenced by designers like Marc Newson who can sell the same form at $300, $3,000 and £300,000 depending on what material the chair is made of. We intend to start in Plywood, then offer solid wood and add other digital-to-physical machines.
Pifflesnort - can't argue with the fact that economies of scale make mass-produced furniture cheaper to produce and therefore cheaper to buy. Obviously for some people, cost will always be the primary factor when it comes to deciding what they purchase.
However, as far as I understand it, low cost isn't really the USP here. Maybe someone will correct me on this, but i'd say that the more important factors are a) the environmental benefits of local production, and b) the potential for customisation.
I think there's definitely a market for locally manufactured, non-air freighted furniture. People are willing to pay slightly more than they would at a supermarket in order to buy locally produced vegetables at a farmers' market, and the same group of people might well be attracted to the idea of buying locally produced furniture, even if they have to pay slightly more for it than they would do at IKEA - particularly if what they end up with is a unique piece of furniture that exactly fits the dimensions of the space they want to put it in.
This is awesome! All for the longtail! There's definitely a shortage of machinist skills out there at the moment but it's services like this that'll get groups of young people interested in learning those skills again.
So the aim would be to order a product on www.fabsie.com that will be cut locally (in North Carolina for example if thats where you are and available for collection or delivery.
What I find interesting is the possibilities of this manufacturing process really expanding and changing other industries. Is it really worth the environmental cost to ship a product half way around the world, to save a few pence? Why not just make it locally, if we can, even if it costs a tiny a bit more. I see a big shift going forward, hopefully...
As they say: It's easier to mail the recipe, than a cake.
17 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 49.7 ms ] threadDepending on designer preferences, when someone sends me a design, I will ask what license they prefer suggesting CC NC.
Business Model Get wood sent to you cut - no hassle - Paid. Get a file to download - know what you are doing - Free
Even once you automate a good deal of the production costs, there is still additional labor, materials, and expertise required.
First of all, CNC machined plywood is not sufficient for anything other than workshop-grade furniture (as in, furniture you'd use in your workshop). You need -- at a minimum:
- Edging applied to protect against splinters and damage to the veneer.
- A finish/varnish/veneer to protect the surfaces against damage/dirt/warping.
Those things involve additional semi-skilled labor and cost. On top of that, people don't usually want raw wood furniture, which means that you need different kinds of veneers and surfaces, which increases material costs and complexity.
On top of that, you're unlikely to be able to produce purely "slot constructed" furniture of any appreciable complexity. You're going to need joints. This significantly increases the costs of the machinery/tooling/design required.
Now that you've added additional materials, labor, and more complex end-user construction, your costs have gone up as well. On top of this, your production facilities need to figure out how to efficiently ship these one-off flat-pack low-end creations to your end users.
Congratulations, you're competing with Ikea, and Ikea has the cheap flat-pack mass-production process down to a science.
If you start trying to scale up to more high-end furniture production, you now have more problems.
First of all, what's described here is essentially already how furniture (and clothing, and electronics) production works, just without the "crowd sourcing". Designers, production facilities, and brand management companies come together to produce furniture for sale in retail outlets.
The problem is that each entity in the chain (design -> production -> sale) does a lot more than operate automated machinery. The machinery itself is not the major expense. The trained labor, raw materials, stock, distribution, storage, and sale of the products are where the complexity come in.
The place where you find efficiencies is in either doing this at scale, not doing this one-off. When you order a piece of furniture from a high-end company, it will be dropped into the production queue, shipped via freight some time later along with a huge batch of other furniture, distributed to large warehouses near major cities, and then pushed out to a subcontracted or directly managed furniture freight delivery service.
Trying to do this on a non-local, distributed, crowd-source bases via UPS will not be cheaper.
The only way to do this for an equivalent price is to buy furniture made, designed, and often delivered by local furniture makers. They tend to have their own workshops containing things like CNC machines, or already have access to those machines through shared workshops. Insofar as they require less skilled labor to assemble the work, they already have it.
i) CNC - 1951 - Not new at all - However its price point is completely new dropping 10X in price since my university paid $250,000 for theirs, now $20,000. Also skills are increasing rapidly no longer limited to several schools, but being taught everywhere.
ii) There will always be costs. Given the drop in costs above to use CNC on-demand means the costs are reasonable to get this started. Ten years ago would have been impossible.
iii) Can the end-user/maker finish the stool (paint/varnish)
iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods.
v) With the right designs none of the additional labour you mention is needed. http://creativecncdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/cnc-...
I see complexity such as this http://www.dezeen.com/2008/10/27/joints-by-nathan-wierink/ going mass market.
Also there are many things this model can do that IKEA cannot do and cannot switch their model to doing, most obviously the long tail of design.
Given the cost of one-off production runs + shipping, why wouldn't I buy a stool that's already finished?
> iv) Working with raw wood which has its market. It's not everyone, but I believe large enough to get this started. Other options are available later, melamine would be easiest and ot expand this system into solid woods.
> v) With the right designs none of the additional labour you mention is needed.
Why would a consumer choose raw wood or a design like that (especially if they have to build it themselves) over a flat-pack Ikea or CB2 chair that will be better finished, possibly steal from an existing designer style, and be about the same price, if not cheaper?
If we want to offer furniture specific to airbnb users that is more privacy orientated, we do so. If we want a desk for the guy that works from home with his dog and wants a desk/doghouse to suit his life, we do so. If we want a bookshelf for the phaidon buyer that needs specific bookshelf dimensions, we do so. (Or rather will do so....) Lastly, when you look at the designs done, they are mind-blowingly cool. (I used to work for one of the world's top design offices, so have a strong network there.)
I agree with many of your points, thanks for taking the time to write them, much appreciated, but want to put these challenges to the test as I strongly believe several of them can be overcome.
The local stuff was all made-to-order, and I was able to see examples of the designer/builder's work by visiting local retail/studio spaces, and then commission custom work based on their existing designs.
A large part of my willingness to purchase something custom/one-off is based on having examples and history of quality product being produced by that designer/manufacturer.
If things are one-off cut (or assembled) by crowd-sourced people, then I'm unlikely to have much faith in the end-result. On top of this, seeing is very much believing, and (I might be unusual in this) I really need to see design in person before I'll commit.
I don't see how it's possible to separate responsibility for design from responsibility for production. When I buy a brand-name or local designer's work, it's their brand that is associated with the produced product. The same exists in electronics -- foxconn might assemble Apple's iPhones, but Apple's name is riding on the quality.
If this relationship is broken up, why would I pay premium design prices for custom designed furniture that is CNC-cut by crowd-sourced production houses and shipped to me for assembly? If I'm not paying premium design prices, how would a designer be able to afford spending time designing a custom piece of furniture for me?
I think this whole comment can be summarised by the line of 'do you trust us?' The answer is currently no which is fine, but over time, we might just win you over.
On touch, I completely agree. - Buying something small to test out the system such as our stool we currently have on kickstarter. http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jamesmcbennett/this-stoo... - Targeting coffee shops to show the furniture - Pop-ups and so on... - Also seeing it at a friends house would count too. - Creating surround sound of postive karma within a city.
Responability is an intersting one for any of these new digtial-to-physical systems. Teaching on 3D printing at General Assembly, we get deep into discussions on the wider aspects of law, quality control and future of quality marks in this new system. Great example you mention Foxconn -> Apple and Apple host reputation on the line. I think Fabsie's reputation is on the line in this case.
At the moment, crowdsourced people = some of the best designers in the best offices in the world who most people don't have access to. When I was working in design offices, most designers (architects in this case) had the problem that we wanted to design a mass product but had no platform to do so.
We are starting in Plywood and will expand into other materials. I am influenced by designers like Marc Newson who can sell the same form at $300, $3,000 and £300,000 depending on what material the chair is made of. We intend to start in Plywood, then offer solid wood and add other digital-to-physical machines.
However, as far as I understand it, low cost isn't really the USP here. Maybe someone will correct me on this, but i'd say that the more important factors are a) the environmental benefits of local production, and b) the potential for customisation.
I think there's definitely a market for locally manufactured, non-air freighted furniture. People are willing to pay slightly more than they would at a supermarket in order to buy locally produced vegetables at a farmers' market, and the same group of people might well be attracted to the idea of buying locally produced furniture, even if they have to pay slightly more for it than they would do at IKEA - particularly if what they end up with is a unique piece of furniture that exactly fits the dimensions of the space they want to put it in.
As they say: It's easier to mail the recipe, than a cake.