Poll: Do you meditate?

Cool.

Though I say the "passive" "active" distinction isn't all that useful. When you are sitting still and breathing, your are actively observing the sensations. There's lots to see.

Lying, sitting, standing, and walking, are all different vehicles for practicing mindfulness. For some people, walking is too stimulating and need to sit. For others, sitting is too restful and one easily falls asleep.

I've mentioned this elsethread. Formal practice where you set aside time and make a commitment creates a ritual container for the practice. It creates a timebox from which you can bind your resolution and intent to practice. You can make this more or less elaborate -- and some people need elaborate.

The formal practice is to give you a chance to realize insights which you then integrate outside the timebox. As the saying goes, mindfulness doesn't end on the cushion.

So if you're able to be mindful in all the things you do, that's awesome. There are lots of people who are like you. And there are lots of people who need a more formal container for their practice.

Vow of Now was created for this very purpose, to instill meditation as a daily habit. Slightly controversial perhaps, but it works: http://vowofnow.com

P.S. I'm the founder.

Well I think meditation is sort of like a minimalistic tool for training yourself. So I reckon it's part of the point to figure out how to get yourself "into a habit", etc.

Anyway, I don't think anything substantial can come out of meditation alone. If you use meditation as a "training ground" for learning discipline, etc. then you may argue those understandings are later useful in practical matters. But then, again, why not train yourself while at those practical matters? Granted, the simplicity of the meditative practice might make it easier to deal with things like what somebody else in this thread calls "negative thought patterns", etc. But I think the whole practice of meditation emerged from an interest of making the "world" to gradually "disappear". Somebody in this thread speaks of the "dissolution of the ego", fasting, etc. Meditative practice appears to have been birthed out of a yearning for...... destruction of details, diversity and complexity. But until when? That doesn't sound right to me. On the other hand, some other people equate meditation with going to a park, or riding the bicycle. That's disconnecting from one "world" and connecting to another; I can see the point of that, it's refreshing, relaxing. And I think it's better, because at least it performs a replacement with something mildly interesting and engaging, rather than... an empty wall (?!). Sitting in front of an empty wall just seems morbid to me.

As for the "feel good" factor, when you're meditating (in front of a wall) you are not contributing much to anything, so it sounds like meditation is a surrogate for "getting high"; or at least some form of really cheap entertainment. Surely there are preferable alternatives – like listening to good music, or reading a good book.

Check out the literature on habit formation. Charles Duhigg just wrote a good book on habits recently, and BJ Fogg of Stanford runs a weekly 3 Tiny Habits course on helping people develop habits.

Or the tl;dr: Promise to yourself to do no more than sit somewhere quiet at a regular time (e.g., as soon as you wake) for one minute. If you sit at least a minute, give yourself a guilt-free reward (e.g., a bit of chocolate).

You'll essentially be using operant conditioning to train yourself until the intrinsic rewards kick in, which can take a few weeks.

There's an app for that! ;-)

Seriously, on my Android device I have an app called Routinely which is one of probably dozens of apps focused on supporting the formation of positive habits. I've set up both a morning meditation activity and an evening meditation activity on it on a daily basis. It does regular scheduled notifications & it does the Seinfeld chain thing when you tick off a completed activity.

I'm following the Natural Stress Relief approach to meditation which is a form of mantra meditation not unrelated to Transcendental or Vedic Meditation. Each session is 18 minutes in length.

I'm not long into my practice, but I find that as a night owl, it helps me sleep more soundly if I do an evening meditation and that the morning meditation dispels the grogginess I usually have on waking. After meditation, I generally find myself refreshed, relaxed, alert and calm and there is a real delta in my state compared with before the session.

Link for Natural Stress Relief http://www.natural-stress-relief.com/

I recommend, highly and unreservedly, Beeminder[1]. You create commitment contracts where you have to report to them the amount of an activity you did during the day, and if you fall short of the goal, you have to pay them, initially, $5. Assuming you have a moral compass greater than a toad, you will feel compelled to be honest with your agreement. Each time you fail, the amount of the commitment grows. My commitment contract on meditation is now high enough that I never fall off the road. I have cheaply purchased hundreds of hours of willpower using Beeminder to make commitments. It's the awesomest productivity/habit formation thing I know of that no one uses (and I have used GTD, pomodoros, Power of Now, etc).

1: https://www.beeminder.com/

Being 'bored' is the best part - setting a time to do 'nothing' during the day. There's always something to do, something to see, someone to talk to, but there's rarely 'nothing' to do.

That is awesome! I may steal the fasting from you!

Hey, another MSAE graduate! (I graduated in 1997, and went to MUM after that.)

I've found TM pretty useful in my life, too. I still do it regularly. Nice way to step away from everything and re-center.

Completely different experience. Daydreaming might be anti - meditation in many ways. ;-)

That sounds like the opposite of mindfulness :)

Meditation is often confused with meditatIVE activities. Sitting and trying to meditate doesn't mean you'll meditate, but meditation almost always requires you to sit still. When you're in meditation, you'll know - your mind will be in a different state (akin to sleep).

Keep practicing :) it takes a while, but once you get it, I promise it's worth it.

Same here. Speed demands full attention and gets me into flow, where all that matters is the immediate sensory input and reacting to it.

Yes, that kind of focus, or 'being in the now' is an example of mindfulness. It's great, isn't it?

The idea of meditation is to exercise that ability so that you can bring it to the rest of your life. Ideally, you should have that state in everything: relationships, work, doing dishes...

There's a mistaken notion that meditation is something you do and then you go about the rest of your life, somehow magically more focused, calm, together. It's more like training for an athlete, who then goes on and uses that training (knowledge & fitness) in what they do.

Riding a motorcycle with no other vehicles on the road feels like that as well. The vibrations of the engine through the frame, the wind blowing, the engine roaring, and only one focus, just draw the perfect trajectory...

What you described is meditation in its purest sense, as it can take many forms. The true definition of meditation is mindfulness. If you do anything with mindfulness you are meditating.

For me I practice sitting meditation, walking meditation, and yoga. Creating art, painting and photography, are also both highly meditative experiences that I enjoy immensely.

I've made great effort to meditate while coding, but I have found it to be nearly impossibly as my mind needs to change its pace in order to solve problems. Keeping with mindful breathing while coding is possible and very beneficial.

One of the greatest benefits of meditation, as you mentioned, is for problem solving. Solutions come when you 'allow' them to. Walking meditation is very effective for this. I keep a timer and take a 5 minute walk for every 25 minutes of work.

next time, when you realize that you are bored, try repeating for yourself "bored, bored, bored, bored, ...". You can apply it to whatever else that may be bothering you: "sleepy, sleepy, sleepy, sleepy, ..."

That (can be) the point. I recently went away on holiday for 3 weeks. No ipad, no laptop, no camera, only took 2 books I'd read before anyway. I wanted to get bored because I wanted to see what's behind boredom.

Normally we go from one stimulus to the next, and when the hit of the previous one falls off we "get bored". But what if you take that away? What if you ignore that little voice that tells you "I'm bored"? There's still consciousness there. And this is what it can lead to.

What am I? Am I the little voice in my head that I have to placate, the one hooked on getting the little hits of dopamine, adrenaline or whatever other chemicals the body can produce? Or am I the consciousness that experiences everything and to whom the little voice is speaking? In that case, you can watch the little voice, and begin to take greater notice of the "watching".

I was in the tropics in the rainy season. So I'd sit in a hammock and watch the rain fall, or I'd go and sit on the beach if the sun came out. I'd just sit and listen and feel how the sounds played upon my consciousness. It is truly wonderful to be able to ignore this little voice, or more correctly, to re-evaluate its relationship to yourself.

10-15 minutes? You were doing great!

"for meditation you are supposed to be free of such thoughts"

This a pernicious falsehood. It's possible to achieve, but even most advanced meditators aren't spending long stretches of time thought-free. Wrestling with your concentration and being aware of what you're experiencing is meditation.

It's pernicious because it leads people to believe that they're not any good at meditating, since they look at their mind and are aghast at how cluttered and chaotic it is. The fact that you now start to see it, IS meditation.

You were doing just fine.

  I just couldn't concentrate.
  Lots of things would come to mind. Revenge, sex, regret, 
  frustrations, hope, plans and a lot just used to happen in
  mind at that time. More than usual. More than it would
  usually come to my mind.

I'm only just beginning to learn about meditation but in most forms of meditation these thoughts are perfectly normal. Mindfulness meditation stresses that these thoughts are okay. One of the first things you learn is to accept these thoughts without judging them or judging yourself.

If you ever give it another try, give your mind permission to go wherever it likes. What will your mind feel like when you're not fighting with it and trying to make it think (or not think) about particular things? It may be rewarding to find out, or at least relaxing.

Best wishes!

Ideally you use meditation as a tool to quiet those thoughts.

The guidelines that I've followed always say not to fight these thoughts, but to let them pass over you: that they are inevitable, but you should not give your energy to deal with them and to let them pass on their own

When you notice that you are thinking, go back to the breath. You don't go back to the breath so that you can meditate, going back to the breath is meditating. It can happen dozens, even hundreds of times during a session. That's the point, in as much as there is a point.

I found that whatever thought is eagerly bubbling to the top is probably something I should think about why it's surfacing. After you deal with the issue (which may take a while) it is less buoyant and bubbles up less.

However, I do meditation in the sense of asking God to communicate and then listening for him. It's even more helpful to ask him what he wants you to change and then listen. I cannot speak to what is helpful for Eastern meditation, though.

I think you're going to need to deal with the buoyant thoughts (regardless of whether you are religious or not), though, otherwise what is underlying them is going to drive your actions without you realizing it.

Thank you, I'm going to check that book out. Like you, I'd like to learn more but the religious aspects are a turnoff.

When I think about it, it's hard to believe that improving one's state of mind and mood wouldn't have a number of benefits.

  This is a shame. Within the frivolous details we debate 
  so much religion holds a wealth of wisdom and value 
  that anyone can apply to their lives and benefit from.

I'm not a zen master or yogi, but I can promise you that if you try to measure the results of meditation (Am I feeling better yet? How about now?) you'll wind up chasing your own tail and giving up. Anyone promising wonderful results through meditation is very likely selling you something.

The effects of meditation are best compared to those of sleep. A good night's sleep doesn't make up for lousy sleeping habits the rest of the week. But getting enough sleep _regularly_ is key to being healthy, happy, and productive.

Ditto meditation. Trying it once in a while is likely as waste of time. But practicing it regularly (and getting better at it, which you will, with practice) can have positive effects, over time.

As an aside - Zen takes a good deal of commitment, but it's the least 'bullshity' of all the approaches to meditation/mindfulness I've encountered. Eight Gates of Zen is a great intro: http://www.mro.org/zmm/training/eightgates.php

If it's a (successful) placebo, then surely it's worked just as planned?

I can't find the one I watched but there is good stuff on this site about the science and neurology behind meditation.

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com

the kind that is fashionable in "western medicine" at the moment is called "mindful meditation". if you google that phrase you can find more info.

it's basically practicing not giving a fuck (whatever you are thinking about you try to give up thinking about - you are aiming for a kind of "not caring about anything" state). so if you think that would be a good thing to practice, give it a go. i do it because it was recommended by my doctor for coping with the stress of having ms. which makes sense - that's the kind of thing it's easy to obsess over, but where you have little control, so being able to stop worrying is helpful. and i think it has helped. but i only do it for a few mins a day - i'm kind of surprised people are discussing doing it for hours as it's actually pretty hard work at times (also, i have better things to do!).

ps it's easy to understand. you just sit somewhere and you'll notice that you're thinking about something. so you say to yourself something like "ok, i was thinking about X, so let's just drop that" and then start thinking about your breathing. at some point you start worrying about something else. and then you realise you are thinking about it. so you talk to yourself again and get back to thinking about breathing. that's it. at first you can spend a fair amount of time going round in circles thinking about not thinking about thinking, but eventually "putting it to one side" becomes easier and you more quickly get into a kind of calmness, just listening to your breathing, for a short while (but you're not supposed to go to sleep - you're still kind of focussed).