Help, I want to quit the startup I founded
I've always been a person with depressive tendencies, but this is slowly pushing me to the edge. I smoke weed every night otherwise I can't relax and feel good. My gf tells me I should go see a psychiatrist but that'd make finances hard. I'm getting some really low lows.
I don't know what to do, help.
PS: my ability to pay rent and visa situation are very much tied to my startup... it makes things crazy.
If I quit, I'm left with 0 money. I'm unemployable by now– I can't be in at work at a decent time, I can't do what a boss tells me to, I can't take any kanban bullshit– I would not survive 1 week at a tech company.
Should I just call it quits and try to just go teach high school math or programming at a community college or something? (or go to thailand and live on the beach for $100 a month or something)
61 comments
[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 1982 ms ] threadMust be getting real cheap weed. Surely seeing a psychiatrist would be a better "investment" for your mental health.
Could you elaborate on why you wouldn't last 1 week at a tech company?
I am definitely working for a "business visionary", although he pays me decently and we have decent traction.
I wouldn't last a week at a tech company because I have huge troubles with authority and policies and rules etc. I've never had a "real job" in my life; always in not very interesting organizations (including academia) where my lack of discipline was tolerated.
EDIT: And I really hope you wouldn't say this to his face, I hope you understand what you're doing. Calling him immature only makes his problems worse, he came to HN for help and got criticized unfairly.
- you're valuable to your startup and difficult to replace
- the more traction your startup gets, the better your next job
- cofounder disagreement is normal, otherwise you're not engaged enough
- address any issues and don't be afraid to ask for justification if you disagree with anything, after all the value of a startup is to teach you how to make hard decisions
- is there anything interesting you think the startup should be doing, but isn't? Do it! - is there anything marketable that you want to learn, but it only relates to the startup tangentially? Do it!
Meanwhile, I would have a larger conversation with the CEO. What is it exactly that makes working with him/her so hard? Can you discuss with them in a non confrontational manner?
Check out the book Difficult Conversations for help on this: http://www.amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Discuss-What-M...
I have to work around depression. Omega-3s, Vitamin D, exercise, good food, good people, and discipline have helped me to make it close to a non-issue.
Also listen to milkshakes, he's a good guy. :)
Perhaps looking for a new position while remaining your employed is a good idea. If you go work at a non-startup, you may be able to earn a better salary and have a less hectic workload and you can focus on yourself, via counseling or whatever, for awhile until you feel like you can jump back into a startup.
Subsist. Accept that you may need to prolong the status quo for a period of time.
Conquer your vision, (i.e., accept its limitations and buy into what the CEO wants, or learn how to demonstrate value via Dale Carnegie or Ray Dalio's methodologies) or plan your exit strategy. With specifics.
Or alternatively, you could conquer yourself. But probably not in the environment you're in.
If you need someone to talk to, email me for my number. kqtgtq3pk at hushmail dot com. Tell me as much of your story in as few words as possible so I know it's you.
I'll be asleep in a few hours for around nine hours because it's late here. Good luck, my heart is with you.
Tell the CEO you need to go to Thailand for 8 weeks to chill out. Avoid quitting so that you can keep your Visa. Strongly consider going to your primary care physician (cheaper than a psychiatrist) and get on an anti-depressant. (This will hard to do at the same time as leaving a country as your doctor will likely not give you a two month prescription to start.) Bring your GF with you to Thailand for some of the time unless you are comfortable traveling alone. The travel experience may be enough to get you out of your rut, but I would get on an anti-depressant as well. Also exercise. Twice a week is enough.
Ignore anybody who tells you to "deal with it" or "subsist". There is more to life than your first startup. Learning to cope with depression is a lifelong process and isn't solved by just sucking it up. Also depression is not really a unique and beautiful snowflake of a disease. A change of scenery and anti-depressants will work 90% of the time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOytubycHOg
I also run a half-marathon or marathon each month, that helps a lot.
Keep on.
Avoid all drugs and alcohol for a month, so your mind can adjust, and then sit down and talk this shit through with at least two smart people you trust to have your best interests in mind.
His real problem is some deeper misalignment with his emotions towards things. There's nothing bad about kanbans, they are tools used to help you get organized and get things done. There's also nothing bad about disagreements with your cofounder. The difficulty is that he's taking all of these things and reacting strongly to it. In all of my experience, I've never learned to teach this, but what he needs to learn is acceptance, and to live in the present. It's more important than ever to just give up control for a bit, let your cofounder do the leading. Taking on all the stress yourself is what kills you, and if you don't trust your cofounder, then you are taking on way more stress than you need.
Why not take a long-ish no-work break. Leave everything for a while. Go somewhere - Thailand for a month or meditate in the Ashrams of Dharamsala[1], or the Osho Ashram[2] in Pune, India.
I'm sure your co-founder (CEO) will understand. After your break, go back - refreshed and ready to get back to work or be able to take a decision on what you'd do next.
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dharamsala
2. http://www.osho.com/
I highly, highly recommend seeing a therapist if not a psychiatrist. Your health insurance may cover that. If not, then what you're paying now for drugs you should try spending on a therapist one week, or whatever. At least give one a shot, it's amazing how much of your depression is in your head and can be resolved by working it out with a professional. And actual depression medication may also help when the therapy doesn't, and it will almost certainly work more consistently for you than weed. I won't say give up the stuff as it does seem to legitimately work for some people, but it also has bad effects that are easy to overlook when depressed because it's more of the same when you're not actively high: lack of energy, lack of motivation, lack of appetite. It's pretty nasty if you're unaware of it, and it doesn't mean you can't smoke again if you can figure out how to address those issues. But you should face this specific problem with as clear a head as you can manage.
But seriously, you are more important than your startup. Don't ever convince yourself otherwise, if Zuckerberg were feeling this shitty and I knew that facebook would blow up I would tell him the same thing. If you aren't making enough money at this place to pay for a therapist you might as well make that money doing something more relaxing, especially if you have this love/hate relationship with your startup; you can't be working at your potential if this is the case.
Anyway, if you're in a place now where you realize that there's a problem AND you're motivated enough to do something about it by posting here, then you're in a place where you have the power to address it before it really nails you later. It's not going to go away if you don't change anything. If you need anything, feel free to give me an email or give me a call.
Contrary to movies like The Social Network, getting drunk and stoned all the time doesn't fit with the stresses of running a startup I'm afraid.
Burnout is an under-talked-about problem with startups. You are far from unemployable coming out of a startup. You just need a break and some time off to get your head clear. Depressive tendencies are not unusual for the kind of person drawn to entrepreneurialism.
If you can then take a break from your startup. Tell your co-founder that you need a couple of weeks off or you're gonna burn out. If they can't make that work then you don't want to be in a startup with them anyway, as there'll be more ups and downs and you need to have each others' backs during the tough times.
If this startup isn't working for you and you have no other option, getting out is not as drastic as it seems. The company will survive. You will survive. Things will not be as dire as you think. It just feels that way now and the combination of pressure and anxiety makes it hard to get a better perspective.
Being stuck in something because you feel financially bound to it is not a good thing - you'd be surprised the options that are available to you but it's hard to see them when you're in the frame of mind you are. That's not critical :-) ...it's a good thing - it means that when your mind starts to clear up you'll see many more options.
I've been in Silicon Valley for about 14 years now (really? damn I'm getting old). I've seen, and been through, every up and every down. If you want someone to talk to for a bit of perspective, I'm happy to listen any time. (Add a d in the middle of the two names my username at gmail for my email address). Perspective can help :-)
Either way, don't get too down. It's not as bad as it feels right now I promise.
Startups are like girlfriends/boyfriends when you're young. When you find your first love you're convinced you'll not find anything this special again. You do anything to hold onto it. But it goes eventually. You're distraught. Then your second love comes along. This time it's the REAL DEAL. You have perspective to realize that it wasn't the end of the world losing the last one. You learned. You grew. Often then that one doesn't work out, you're heartbroken, it's the end of the world.
Except it isn't. The next one is the REAL DEAL, you were crazy for thinking the last one was... and so it goes. This isn't the end of the world. Take a break. Find support structures. Get exercise. Change your routine. Quit the pot. Perspective will come and it'll make you see things in a clearer light.
Telling him he should buck and and stop whining isn't really a solution. Trying to bully a depressed person into somehow changing things by yelling at them adds no value as it doesn't work.
Drop that pot, and start dealing with your partner. Don't post stuff on HN and feel good about yourself.
TALK TO HIM. That is the only way the pain will ease.
What part of the post suggested to you that laziness was the problem?
".. I can't be in at work at a decent time, I can't do what a boss tells me to, I can't take any kanban bullshit– I would not survive 1 week at a tech company."
"Should I just call it quits and try to just go teach high school math or programming at a community college or something? (or go to thailand and live on the beach for $100 a month or something)"
Startups are populated by folks who cannot function well in a more structured environment and wrinkle against rules.
Escapism is a fairly typical symptom of someone too depressed to have perspective on their problems, and once they get a handle on the depression the desire for escapist solution wanes.
"I wouldn't last a week at a tech company because I have huge troubles with authority and policies and rules etc. I've never had a "real job" in my life; always in not very interesting organizations (including academia) where my lack of discipline was tolerated."
Ad hominem attacks on the guy help no-one.
Second, ignore anyone who tells you to buck up or get over it. Seriously. Anyone who tells you to get over it has never been where you are. And therefore, they're not qualified to tell you a damned thing.
Third, if I were in your situation, I'd go to a doctor and try to get on anti-depressants. Then, I'd take a couple of weeks off and just relax. Go to the beach. Hang out at home. Play video games. Work on a project that you care about. Do anything but the startup. Maybe after a couple of weeks you'll be able to go back and work at a high level? Or maybe, after a couple of weeks, you'll realize that this startup thing isn't for you.
Worst case scenario, if a couple of weeks off and some anti-depressants can buy you another three months at this startup, that is another three months for you to save cash, and try to interview at other companies. Best case scenario, maybe you'll find your passion for it.
Life is hard. You're not doing him any favors by pretending otherwise.
I'm not trying to minimize his problems. His problems are real and he needs to put the work in the change himself on the inside. Excuses, silver-bullet "professional" solutions and other escapist approaches are what got him into this dire situation. More of the same is not going to turn out happy.
Often, when people are going through a bout with a mood disorder, people who have never suffered from mood disorders will say things like 'buck up' or 'get over it'. Nobody would ever tell a cancer patient to 'buck up' or 'get over it'. But, people think it's acceptable to tell people with mood disorders to just get over them.
Mental illness is very real and trying to put on a happy face and ignore the problems is both dangerous and irresponsible. If the OP is ill, he really should pursue treatment.
I think you're aware of this, but you're engaging in very unrealistic, all-or-nothing thinking. If you aren't in THIS startup at THIS time then you're totally unemployable and you waste your life on a beach in Thailand. Take some time off to clear your head (if I were you I wouldn't up the weed quotient, but that's me). I don't know that you need to jet off to a different country, if you're in California there are so many great places to relax within a few days' drive.
Also, seriously, the top comments are all about weed? Come on. There are more important issues such as clashes with the CEO and sucky product.