HN Explorer

Ask HN: A social media company is hostile to my side project. Do I fight or not?

4 points by babs474 ↗ HN
I run an app that crowd sources the collection of comments so you can see what gets censored, changed or deleted. It gained a good amount of popularity (about 40k users) and I even started charging for it.

I've managed to break out of api jail, but my app has been taken out of the chrome marketplace at this companies request. I have options, but I'm sure the conflict will continue.

Does HN have experience dealing with larger hostile entities? Am I destined to get beat down by overwhelming force? I'd love to hear about how similar situations played out.

13 comments

[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 49.9 ms ] thread
michaelpinto
This is what's known as a sucker's game: At the end of the day you're playing on someone else's playground and they set the rules. In an ideal world you own your own playground, but if you can't afford one find one with more open policies.

If you want an example from the big boys take a look at Facebook: They couldn't offer a custom experience on iOS so they forked Android (Amazon did the same thing too, and so will Samsung before long).

babs474
Yes, that was a painful lesson that was reinforced when my app was unceremoniously dumped.

I've since moved to a firefox app hosted by me, not an appstore. The chrome extension is still available but google has made it really difficult for a non appstore extension to be installed. I'm also looking into greasemonkey.

So I can come back from this stumble but I'm wondering if there is just some bigger hammer waiting for me as soon as I get back up.

michaelpinto
Something to keep in mind: Google was never really interested in the idea of "open" — yes they love "open" when it helps them, but it's actually a very opaque company which has a "my way or the highway" mindset. Honestly I prefer the honesty of companies like Apple that don't pretend to be anything but a huge company.

But chalk it up to a good learning experience! And be glad that you didn't start to make real money, hired employees and then watched it all implode in a minute because of a small call at a big company.

babs474
Here is my question though. I've solved the appstore issue. I've got a small amount of customers who are still being served and satisfied. I've got a forward path with firefox extension. I can continue business as things stand.

Am I just going to run into some other iceberg. I know this company really really doesn't like my extension. They have many resources, and I have none. Will I just get lawyered into the ground? Because I've got a feeling they are going to keep coming after me.

edit: Another thought, you are so right about the google my way or the highway attitude. I was notified of my app being taken down by a red "taken down" notice. No warning, no contact, no explanation or appeal process. If nothing else maybe some other developers will take this story as a warning.

michaelpinto
What you're talking about is really an add-on feature with fans rather than a true business.

Your real talent is clearly the ability to spot an opportunity, build something and get it out there: So why not think about the audience of customers you want to build? Start with that and then look at the opportunities. And look at a bunch of them...

babs474
You might have a point here. This really started out as a social experiment, and then it took off, so I started charging so it could be sustainable.

Looking at unedditreddit through the harsh prism of business, it probably isn't that great of an opportunity.

I just got ruffled by the idea of somebody forcing me to shutdown because it didn't fit with their interests, and it made me want to fight. I probably just need to make the rational decision to work on something with more potential.

Thanks for hashing this out with me.

narayankpl
"Google was never really interested in the idea of "open" — yes they love "open" when it helps them, but it's actually a very opaque company which has a "my way or the highway" mindset."... Shades of Microsoft
argonaut
Facebook did not fork Android.
TVfuzz
You should make your OWN social network... with blackjack... and hookers...
slinkyavenger
This isn't funny or original. Please keep comments like these off of HN.
martey
Looking at the discussion you started 2 years ago on the social media company's website [1], there were two objections raised:

1. users who think that deleting their comment will remove it are ill-served by your extension

2. your extension increases load on their servers

Besides the obvious trademark violation of the domain you are using [2] (which might be why your extension was removed from the Chrome marketplace), you should be able to avoid objection #2 by refactoring your extension (you may have already done so, I did not spend time looking around in the Firefox extension source to find out).

#1 is probably more insurmountable. It seems likely that if your side project becomes more popular, the way that deleted comments are implemented will change on the site for the worse, and functionality for all users would decrease. From a moral standpoint, you might want to stop working on this for that reason.

[1]: http://www.reddit.com/r/reddit.com/comments/etd52/lets_have_...

[2]: http://www.unedditreddit.com/

babs474
Thanks for your thoughts martey.

The reddit comment thread you are linking is indeed a bit old. Here is a more recent, really good discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/TheoryOfReddit/comments/1ao3zf/shoul...

(as an aside: I didn't mean to by too coy about what my extension was or that I'm talking about reddit, I just wasn't sure about the etiquette of trying to publicize something by name here)

As for your points I have to disagree with both of them.

1. No users are ill served my extension. Somebody who posts something to the internet in a public forum and expect that they can delete that information whenever they want are ill-served by a system that perpetuates such an illusion. This often manifests itself as the Barbra Streisand effect.

2. My extension does not increase load on their servers. It does not interact with reddit servers in anyway. I can see why the old thread would lead you to believe that, but it is no longer the case.

I understand this idea is somewhat controversial but it is not immoral or unethical, just different.