From my experience, there's a ~30min. difference between various data providers and even the airport on a flight status so I'm not sure if this would be my primary source of information.
I've not had the same experience, at least with the Google results I've gotten from the flight number. I've not tried anything otherwise, but I do track a lot of flights since I travel a lot as well as my family. Where have you been checking?
Just Landed's times are actually quite accurate (especially for major carriers), but they differ from the times that the airlines some other sources publish for two important reasons:
- The airlines publish scheduled gate arrival times, whereas we show runway landing times and then factor time to the gate and time through the terminal when telling you when to leave.
- The airlines pad their times by 15-30 minutes depending on the route to allow them to be a little late and not get penalized for it.
Our times will almost always be earlier than the time printed in the itinerary or shown on the airline website. This is normal and intentional, and does not mean the data is wrong - in fact it's just giving a more accurate estimate of the actual landing time. I feel very comfortable making this statement as I have verified it in my own field testing, and I've also heard from thousands of happy customers who write to me to say how surprisingly accurate the app is in a real airport pickup scenario.
> When will Just Landed be available for Android?
> If you’d like to see an Android version, please let us know.
> (links: mailto:support@getjustlanded.com?subject=Just%20Landed%20for%20Android. )
At Google I/O last year they stated that the Google Now cards which show flight arrival times would figure out when a flight lands and how far you are away from the airport (including traffic) to predict the best time to leave.
I picked up my parents from the airport last month. It showed me the time of arrival updated in realtime while I was going to the airport. At the airport, once the flight had landed, it started showing me the checked baggage collection belt number.
Yep, similar experience. I don't think it yet says "You should leave for the airport now" (I think the implicit use for it is for flights you're actually on) but it does everything else: showing you where the flight is, ETA, terminal, gate.
If you use the Google Now widget, it'll prioritize the flight and show you where it is.
It's quite a bit more difficult to develop apps for Android, since the ecosystem is so fragmented and there are many different device types to take into account.
It makes a lot of sense to develop an iOS app and push it out as soon as possible so that you can start getting feedback from real users. Version 2.0 can include an Android version.
Quite a bit more difficult? Not at all. Maybe if you build your app like the iOS version. If you follow the guidelines and actually understand how the GUI works on Android, you only have to build it once and it works everywhere.
> It's quite a bit more difficult to develop apps for Android, since the ecosystem is so fragmented and there are many different device types to take into account.
Bullshit. As someone who develops for Android, this is nothing more than FUD thrown around by Apple fans/developers. Unless you're making a game or something, fragmentation is absolutely not an issue anymore.
I develop for neither Android nor iOS. I'm simply telling you my experiences as an end-user who has used countless apps on both platforms. iOS apps are the only ones I can rely on for consistent cross-device experience.
I don't really want a lot more. I used to use JustLanded on my iPhone before I got my Nexus4. It's the quality of apps like this (let alone first party apps) being better on the iPhone that makes me think about going back. The 4.7" screen, however, it keeping me on Android (for the time being).
No. Building an Android version requires a large amount of time and effort. It's a huge waste of time to build an version of an app for a second plantform that you have not already validated the market for on the first.
Have used this app since the summer/fall. It hasnt been wrong once and the UX is really great (The push notifications even sound like airport bells). No idea what the business model is, but the 8 or 9 times I've used it, I've been extremely happy.
I would say - if they supported longer lead times (so I could put in someone's info a week or a month in advance, and it would notify me, that would extend the value quite a bit). Otherwise, this app nails it.
I've used it several times as well. Great app. The only time it didn't work so hot was on an international arrival. It didn't account for the time they spent going through customs, so I was waiting a while.
Thanks for using the app, and I'm sorry if we let you down on an international arrival. It happens - customs and baggage claim are both pretty unpredictable.
As it turns out, we do try to factor additional time for international customs, but it's just an average since there's no real-time data available on customs wait times (which vary widely by airport, time of day, what passport the traveler has, and season). I also expect the customs folks don't make this information available because perhaps it would raise an airport security issue that could be exploited. In any case, I plan to submit freedom of information act requests for customs wait times, baggage wait times, and airport security wait times (that latter the TSA currently collects, but only makes available via their myTSA app).
Anyone have experience with filing freedom of information act requests, who might be able to help?
A minor quibble with an otherwise great app. Glad you're on it.
Every federal agency is required to designate a FOIA officer. In my limited exerperiance, the helpfulness of these officers vary wildly between agencies.
Note that there's an art to writing an effective request. Too broad and you will be told 100,000 pages are responsive and how would you like to pay for the photocopying. Too narrow and you will get back "no responsive records found."
I think getting useful data on customs clearance would be a long shot -- good luck.
I don't know whom you may be able to get to help, but I would bet that the government doesn't actually have great data on custom wait time- I've never seen them track someone from entry to pass-through. I strongly doubt they have that.
Rather, I think you may have come upon a really cool opportunity- find a way to track it! You'll have data no one else on the planet has. It's like when Uber starts in a new city- the error on their time estimate starts high and decreases over time. If enough people use it, you'll get really got at predicting the wait time based on the factors you mentioned.
Idea: let the traveler download a free companion to the app. Then the user links to the traveler. Once the traveler lands, they can turn on their phone and let you see location.
The user gets an alert "Bob has landed!" and actually see where the traveler is. Over time, you'll get really great at refining the wait time prediction algorithm. You can ask nationality, etc.
Potential problems: No phone, international traveler can't use phone in destination due to roaming charges, can't have phone on in certain custom areas.
We do this in GateGuru already. I think you are underestimating the scale needed to produce statistically significant models across airports (or even within one across checkpoints). MyTSA even has trouble with the crowd sourcing and they have TSA brand. It's a classic chicken and egg problem: nobody wants to use the app until its meaningful and it's not meaningful until you have huge numbers using the app.
Our approach in GateGuru is to bundle the security wait time functionality with other, highly engaging and free services (such as flight tracking, itinerary management, and our amenity database) in a completely FREE app and scale our way into it.
We are deep into it and its an ongoing part of our strategy, but its not clear to me how you could generalize this and build a business around it without an amazing solution to this fundamental problem.
The biggest variable I found travelling around Europe last year (38 flights in 35 weeks) was which passport queue you had to join. If you're a citizen entering your own country, customs is usually much faster - it's an added variable, not sure how easy (or helpful) it might be to build in.
(My beautiful wife and I were lucky in that we could cherry pick - I was travelling on my UK passport, she on her Australian, so depending on which queue was shortest we either went through together in the UK / Europe line (I'm travelling with my wife) or the Other Passports line (My wife is travelling with me)).
Haven't used the app myself but from reading what it does, one possible business model could be to land in deals with cab providers and allowing the user to book a cab when he is ready to leave.
This is the quintessential first world problem. Out of the range of problems facing society that you could solve, of all the ways you could create value by making peoples' lives better, you settled on "making airport pickup easy".
Now, this is probably a completely rational move from the company's perspective. Silicon Valley over the last few years has been backstopped by acquihires and other such soft landings, and big companies desperate to hire outstanding talent are often very willing to pay high prices for a great team. From the landing page at least, it certainly doesn't look like the Just Landed guys are amateurs. They're probably a very talented, capable team.
If they're successful, I won't begrudge them their success. However, I do lament the idea that the best minds of a generation are being focused on getting people to click on ads and minimizing the number of loop-arounds you have to do at the airport. I don't buy the idea that these guys wouldn't be focused on "harder" problems if consumer web didn't exist; of course they would. This kind of talent rises to the challenge. The idea that these are the problems whose solution drives us forwards is just a monumental lapse of creativity. Technology is an amazing thing, and we can do so much with it. I really think it's just an exposure issue -- people are used to web, and fields like the life sciences or hardware seem mysterious and complex. How do those become opened up?
Entire generation? It's three people[1]. It seems you personally don't find value in this app, and that's okay, but it's a bit hyperbolic to write off an entire generation over it. There are most assuredly people who are doing more than getting people to click on ads and writing airport pickup apps.
Yes, that's right, the parent literally meant that an entire generation - millions upon millions of people without exception are dedicating themselves to precisely this cause.
I think it's pretty clear what he means and there's plenty of room to argue against that, no need for this kind of post.
It's a rant about how nobody does anything important anymore and an entire generation has been wasted over a post about a new iOS app made by three people. It's a total non-sequitur: the only thing to argue against is how over the top and off-topic it is.
And moreover, it's boring: the complaint could be registered on most of the posts on Hacker News. Not everyone's going to save the world with their work, and that's okay. Tearing down other people's work over some perceived social injustice is not.
I have spent plenty of time around alternative medicine groups online. I have seen and done some pretty amazing things. I am killing my health site and I have started a comic. No one wants a miracle cure. Talking about what I have done gets me nothing but personal attacks. Doing something people will pay money for, no matter how trivial it seems, is the rational thing for talented, intelligent people to do. If you think saving the world is so important and worthwhile, perhaps you should quit being a hypercritical asshole and go do something "worthwhile." Get back to us losers trying to pay the bills after you win your Nobel prize.
If you want to give out your cure, then just give out your cure for free, without all the preamble and mystery. If you aren't just saying "the way to cure cystic fibrosis is XYZ" (whatever XYZ might be, even if it's 'ocean air and diet coke') then the rest is really just excuses.
I spent a lot of time trying to give it out for free. People are not interested and it gets me very ugly personal attacks. I don't mind helping people but the degree to which people are ugly is a genuine issue, and not of the "my feelings are hurt" variety. I am fairly thick-skinned. And because no one will engage me in discussion, I am unable at this time to move forward on figuring out how to effectively communicate what I have done. That is a non-trivial issue which I cannot solve in a vacuum. So you are basically being an asshole to me over this, which is hardly new. Your remarks amount to an unfounded and unwarranted personal attack and contain zero helpful, problem-solving value.
I spent 12 years getting well when doctors said it could not be done. It wasn't a simple process. But if you want a super brief summary: Celtic sea salt, coconut oil and glyconutrients. Eat an anti-inflammatory, alkaline diet. Redress years of nutritional deficiencies. Use non-drug antmicrobials. Avoid exposures to germs, chemicals, etc.
I think the link to the site might still be in my profile. If not, it is at healthgazelle.com. There is substantial info in the archive... Edit: linky:
oops sorry that's screwed up and won't be fixed, but this page will get you to the archive -- just don't click on "home":
As the other commenter pointed out, three people doing a startup like this can easily provide 10-100x times more value to society when compared to them just being regular employees at a random large corporation.
Easier problems are solved first, and that's fine. There's less risk and so more growth per money invested. Not everything should be invested into super-high risk technology or something. Besides, this company might be bootstrapped.
It's also worth to note that first-world people tend to work on first-world problems. There's nothing wrong with that. It makes sense to work on problems that you're familiar with. I wouldn't start a restaurant since I've zero experience in that industry.
The problem is not that they're fixing a "easy problem". The problem is that for some unknown reason it hasn't been fixed yet.
I don't think the reason is unknown. You already stated the reason: it's an easy problem. Not just an easy one to solve, but an easy one to ignore because it's not just an easy problem, it's a small problem. It causes very little trouble, there is little loss of productivity, there is little to gain by solving it. It hasn't been fixed the way a ding on your car's door doesn't get fixed. That doesn't mean it can't be fixed, but I agree with OC's question, do we have so little other stuff to worry about that we have to go around looking for "problems" so small that most people didn't know they existed until they were told?
That's a good explanation, I guess I was thinking more broadly about these kind of small problems (but which are slightly larger than airport pickup), not just about Just Landed.
Honestly, better waste some time on doing mundane practice, maybe earning some money along the way, than to fail big, ambitious, and spectacularily, with an idea that was brilliant but wasn't pulled off properly due to lack of experience.I see how this is a small easy problem, but hell, it's practice, and if it works, it's funds for the next big thing that comes into their minds.
I understand what you mean. I don't imagine I could work very long on a project like this with asking myself if it's the most important problem I could be solving.
But we don't know these guys, they may feel the same and this is a means to an end. Luckily the entire generation isn't working in Silicon Valley and there are similarly motivated people in climate change research, biotech etc.
For someone who genuinely complains about "first world problems," it seems that being upset about what smartphone apps a couple of random guys are building should make it pretty high on the list. I'm sure people living in third world countries would love to have the luxury to experience lamentation about which lucrative business choices a bunch of first worlders are making.
I am building an app ecosytem around people waiting in airports either for flights or to be picked up.
I am advertising directly to the people who have downtime between flights, and developing a community around the developers to create apps that are geared and focused on this high-value target market.
We have location based coupons that know, by GPS, when you arrive at any airport in 36 countries. When you land - you are greeted by offers from any retailer in the market, and are given the option to book travel (uber/taxi/shuttle/limo) from the airport to a nearby hotel - we sell the hotel booking as well and make a cut on the room.
We also offer social games for those stuck in airports waiting. Play with people at your gate, on your flight, from your hometown airport or any other place! Again the ads are all from retailers directly around you!
Finally, we even offer a travellers hookup service, so if you want to look for lay-over travelers to hook up with, you can sign-up and hook up. (this product is called 'Laid-Overs' and is our most popular app!
>I really think it's just an exposure issue -- people are used to web, and fields like the life sciences or hardware seem mysterious and complex. How do those become opened up?
I think that's a really interesting question, but the way the rest of the post is/was written is going to work against it being considered.
I expect you'd have been better off writing something up on the idea in its own context and submitting it on its own.
Off the top of my head, I think we're already seeing hardware being "opened up" through things like Arduino, 3D printing and the ease of making global connections on sites like Alibaba. I can't really speak to life science, but I'm generally inclined to think that more (any?) exposure in primary education would help.
One time I was really annoyed at how the door to my house creaked when it was opening and closing. It was so loud sometimes that other people would comment on it. I spent nearly half a day oiling the hinges, eventually removing them altogether, and then installing new ones. The world is worse off for me having wasted my precious time when I could have spent that half day learning about biology and chemistry and subsequently pursuing a cure for cancer.
Also, is there a word that refers to this sort of cyclical argument? ie: someone makes generalization, I say "all generalizations are bad" in reply, someone else makes a generalization arguing against mine, and so on? I feel like there should be.
I jumped to a similar assumption, but it's not clear this app is their startup. They seem to have a company "Little Details", so this is likely just a pet project they enjoy working on together. If we see them raising millions of dollars for this app, then this rant can stand.
Frankly, I find this "first world problem" kind of attitude insulting to the developing world. You want to know who is solving developing world problems every day? The citizens of those countries. I spent most of last year in Turkey, which is rapidly developing. The problems I saw that they faced were largely the same ones I'm facing in the valley. (Frankly, I think Istanbul is more hospitable toward the destitute than San Francisco!)
As to why most software developers aren't working on harder problems, however, is that harder problems usually require more up-front investment and require the investor to take more risk. Without a previous record of success, it is difficult to get that trust.
SpaceX and Tesla don't happen by someone without a track record. Be a little easier on those who are trying to establish one. :)
It goes deeper than Zakat, but that is one element. I'd say that there are issues of shelter security that are solved through slums. As bad as they are made out to be, it is far superior to have a roof over one's head than no roof. Staples are much cheaper, allowing someone to survive on a minimal income. There isn't any restrictions on street sellers, allowing everyone to have a marginal job. The cost of labor is lower, which inhibits the automation and efficiency that we see here.
As Turkey gets wealthier, many of these problems will arise. Homelessness is truly a first world problem, for example.
They're destroying the slums without making alternative housing arrangements. (Turkey's done some of this as well. Tarlabasi and Sulukule are prime examples. It's destroying communities, but India is much worse about it.)
I'd argue that Turkey is actively trying to destroy cultural identity as an extension of decades old habits, regardless of the government in power. (I'm not a Turkish apologist by any means.) However, I think this is getting off the main point of original post, so I'll stop here.
Are you sure you wouldn't say the same thing if it was 1975 and they'd made a Basic interpreter for a toy computer used by a few hobbyists?
Big things often start small. In fact, usually start small.
And in any case it's just mean of you to piss all over these guys' efforts. It makes me embarrassed for HN when people launch something new, and this is the sort of response they get.
There is a difference between building software for us (developers/hobbiests/etc) and building software for them (consumers). We will tinker, extend, reverse, tweak, hack and out will come something new for other people to build upon, possibly ground-shaking like the Basic interpreter. On the other hand, consumers will use it a few times, maybe click on an ad, and forget about it. I believe that frisco is lamenting the scopelessness of the project, which I do as well.
On the other hand, this issue reminds me of Peter Thiel's TedX talk, where he makes the argument that real technological invention may be slowing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOB7nezuQ7g
I agree assisting people to reach the airport on-time may morph into a larger corporate vision, but I disagree it's likely to contribute to solving cancer, making better fuel, or reaching strong AI. ...And it's arguably a distraction of rare talent from that calibre of problem.
Totally agree. When I first joined HN (2100+ days ago) there were posts nearly every day of the 'Show HN: My new startup/website/app/etc' type and the thoughtful feedback and comments were genuinely helpful and insightful. It wasn't uncommon for multiple people to actually take screenshots and rework design elements, provide thorough user interaction impressions and potential improvements, offer assistance in numerous ways (debugging, introductions, alpha/beta testing, etc.), and be generally supportive. HN truly seemed like a community of semi-collaborative or at least fully helpful hackers.
It saddens me that the most common response these days seems to be some version of 'Let me list all the reasons why this is crap.'
Maybe it's a matter of adjusting some copy... "Show HN" was appropriate when HN consisted of its higher quality membership. You were showing your project to people who were more likely to provide better quality feedback.
Now that the population has grown, there are more commenters and more Show HNs, yet the presentation hasn't changed to accommodate this (same number of posts per page, same comment layout despite more comments, etc).
Maybe something like "Review HN"? Whatever it would be, it may be time to get more specific. Ultimately you're trying to filter out unhelpful comments. Those will always appear, but now there's just more of them in the same space...
Wow, that sounds like a dream for a startup. I'm getting fairly close to releasing a beta and people like that would be awesome. In fact, I've been thinking that maybe if I charge a nominal amount (a dollar or something similar) to try the beta, it might act as a filter for these kinds of people. Lately, however, the cynic in me is saying that I'll just end up with no one :(.
Disclosure: I created Just Landed. Thanks for posting the app on HN!
@frisco: I can understand how you lumped Just Landed in with other Silicon Valley startups some of whom are creating frivolous apps and raising vast sums of money against small ideas. I suppose those irritate me too for the same reasons you mentioned.
However, in this case, you would be wrong to assume that Just Landed is just another overfunded startup trying to conquer the world with an airport pickup app. First off, Just Landed is not a startup. Just Landed is an app, built by myself and two of my buddies, because I kept making the mistake of forgetting to leave for the airport on time to pickup my girlfriend. After finding that no other apps were solving this problem (and that flight apps generally sucked), I decided to take a crack at it.
I don't make any claim that this is an important problem in our society (I built this app for myself), that this would be a good idea for a startup (it probably isn't), or that it's worthy of venture funding (so far it's not a great business). Just Landed was built with $15k of my own money as a fun side project while I figured out what I wanted to do next with my career. Frankly, I'm amazed how successful it has been - it was totally unexpected. Also, it's not even really a company - it was released under Little Details LLC because I needed to protect myself with limited liability (I also plan to make other commercial apps).
Finally, while we have certainly had offers, it is also not my goal to be "acquihired". I'm actually working on a mobile game right now, and am thoroughly enjoying myself. My goal is to be free to work on my own fun projects for as long as I'm able. If I come upon an idea worthy of a startup, something that can really change the world, that's a different story. FWIW I've already failed twice at a startup (went through YC once), so for now I'm taking a break and building apps.
Just Landed is not going to change the world, but it sure saves my ass (and helps hundreds of thousands of other people) when it comes to going to the airport to pick someone up.
If you don't mind me asking - What did you spend $15k on? For just a "fun side project" that sounds like an outrageous amount so spend, and I can't particularly think of what it would be spent on as I'm assuming flight information is public. Don't mean for this to sound judgmental - just genuinely curious as I must be missing something.
As it turns out, accessing significant amounts of real-time flight data, as required by this app, is neither publicly accessible nor cheap (hence the need to charge for the app). There are also many other costs associated with developing even a small iPhone app to this level of quality.
I'm actually quite proud of myself for keeping the costs so low. Try asking some big companies what they spent on their apps - you might be in for a surprise (think huge numbers)!
Any plans to make this a web-based service I can use from my laptop? I think this would be a good replacement/improvement to flightaware.com which I use to track my wife's inbound flights.
We're constantly reading content on here that tells us to follow our passions, take risks and solve problems.
Just Landed does that, but it's not an "important" enough problem to solve. He "wasted" his talent and should have focused on the larger problems that plague humanity.
I get that entrepreneurs need feedback, but there's a difference between helping and just plain being an asshole.
This kind of stuff isn't helpful to the community - we see it over and over. My hope is that people won't be deterred by it in the future....otherwise HN will lose it's value.
@jgraili I think this app is cool - kudos to you for the awesome execution. I'm downloading it - I could have totally used it yesterday :)
Aside from being an overstatement, this is correct. And if anyone would think about it, that's something working in their favor. Unless you're one of those "profit is evil" people, when you're building a business with the intention of making money, you'll probably want to target a market that actually has disposable income.
Yep, it's very much a first world problem, but the negativity on that point is unwarranted. I doubt they started it with the intention of fixing society.
You underestimate leverage. If this app takes off and shaves off 15 minutes of time for a million people a month, you are looking at 10k man-days of effort a month being saved. Not to mention the fuel thrown away by cars in "loop arounds."
people in the 2nd world and developing world also need to pick people up from airports. they also ALL have phones that are capable of receiving text messages and many of them have smartphones.
and not everyone drives, but everyone sure as hell can call a cab. in case you didn't notice there are LOTS of cabs in the developing world.
quick top of the head guesses for market population size:
entire US: 300M
entire EU: 700M+
middle class chinese: 300M
middle class africans: 100M (??)
middle class south americans: 300M (??)
what percentage of these people have smartphones? what percentage WILL have smart phones in 5 years?
How is this a first world problem? Air traffic is growing means of transport in lots of developing countries.
India's air traffic has been growing at 17-20% per year. Smartphone ownership is also growing in developing countries.
Now think of the fuel and productivity costs of airport pickups. Usually if I'm early I end up driving around the airport, or worse, spending lots of money on parking. In India people typically wait at the side of the road with their AC on.
If this app works perfectly, there is a lot of real gain to be had, and not just in the US.
This is a place where we talk about the technical merits of projects and provide useful feedback for making them better.
Posting a comment just to say that someone shouldn't have built it in the first place is profoundly unhelpful. Actually, its worse than that. Its un-useful.
This is the quintessential HN holier-than-thou comment. Out of the range of problems facing society that you could solve, of all the ways you could create value by making peoples' lives better, you settled on "pissing on someone's app".
Now, this is probably a completely rational move from your perspective. HN over the last few years has been backstopped by middlebrow-dismissals and other such poo-poo-ings, and bored programmers desperate to win karma are often very willing to waste hours crafting popular but mean comments. From your previous comments at least, it certainly doesn't look like you are just trolling. You're probably a very talented, capable person.
Since you seem to work at Transcriptic, I won't begrudge you your karma. However, I do lament the idea that the best minds of a generation are being focused on getting people to dismiss others' creations and directing all creative effort to what you deem to be "important problems". I don't buy the idea that you wouldn't be focused on a "better" use of your time if HN didn't exist; of course you would. This kind of talent is ambitious and gets things done. The idea that these are the types of comments that rise to the top is just a monumental lapse of discussion quality on HN. Scratching your own itch is an amazing thing, and we can do so much with it. I really think it's just an attitude issue -- people are used to dismissing new technology as frivolous, and mobile apps, in particular, seem totally pointless. How do we become less dismissive and more encouraging to makers?
From my experience all I need know is if there is a delay or not, which I check quickly on the airport's page.
If on time:
For international flights and large airpors if you have about 1h to travel (traffic, distance etc) leave when the plane is landing. By the time the plane gets to the gate, people get out, find their luggage and so on, it will be ~ 1 hour. You won't need to park your car, go straight to the door for pickups.
No this doesn't solve great universal problems, but monitoring a flight and figuring out when to leave is definitely annoying enough for me to warrant at least trying out the app. Ultimately my time is my most valuable asset, so anything I can do (no matter how little) to maximize time efficiency will always be useful to me.
How unfortunate, another "app" that would be more useful implemented as a web page and text messaging service.
I realize web pages have discovery problems, but so do apps at this point. But if the goal is an aquihire, I guess they can get bigger bonuses as an app development team rather than a web development team.
Feature idea: let the passenger schedule a text message to the pickup person when it's time to leave. The same logic that powers the app could also send an appropriately timed message.
The app is really designed for the person who is doing the picking up (it shows no departure information), and does notify them when to leave (as well as prompting you to text your passenger on arrival at the airport). It sounds like you'd like to be able to use it as a passenger and remind the pickup person (who perhaps doesn't have the app) that they need to leave. Is that right? Would like to understand the use case you're envisioning.
That's correct - a passenger could use this service to send a timely reminder to their ride. This is doubly useful since, even if a passenger were to track the flight and determine the correct departure time (which the app does automatically), there is no easy way to send a message while on the flight.
Yes, unfortunately Just Landed is only officially supported in the US & Canada for now. The limitation stems from getting good enough global flight data (surprisingly difficult & expensive). The app actually works reasonably well in other countries (I used it in Turkey last summer) but given the known gaps in the flight data coverage for flights landing outside North America, I don't feel comfortable selling it in other countries (yet).
I think this is a prime example of the vast potential of computers to generate material value beyond what we could have ever dreamed of in the 1960s. Finally I can avoid making all those painful driving time estimates. This is really a significant improvement over plugging the flight name into Google. It could save me seconds, no minutes of valuable time that I could be spending developing my revolutionary messaging app that allows you to send small cartoon images of ice cream cones to your friends and family for a nominal fee.
LOL. Seriously though, there are real benefits: don't be late or forget to go to the airport and leave your guest stranded; don't go to the airport too early in the event of a delay and spend hours hanging out at the terminal. I've done both of those, and I'm glad I no longer have to.
The app looks beautiful, and solves a problem elegantly, but it's not a problem that I would pay any amount of money to solve better than a text message or airport/airline's flight tracker does. Even the 99¢ price tag seems like an overpay.
Thankfully lots of other people (limo and taxi drivers in particular) feel differently. Some ppl have actually stated that they would pay significantly more than the current price.
Good to hear! I think anyone picking folks up from the airport with any regularity (including friends and spouses of business travelers) would definitely find it useful.
This proves the fact that as developers we can greatly underestimate the real demand for a product if we base it just on our own needs. One can now see the app being very useful for taxi and limo drivers by automating a crucial part of their business and saving them lots of time and hassle.
Great app guys, congrats on getting it out. In my previous role I worked on myskystatus.com, which was a similar idea, originally built as part of an airline marketing campaign. We could see the potential and were desperate to get them to invest in its future, but they didn't bite, and it was eventually mothballed.
Your website sucks 30-35% of one of my CPU cores. Likely that's the parallax cloud effect since it's only happening when the tab is visible. You may optimize that.
Yes, I think you're correct. I didn't build the landing page, but perhaps I will optimize that. It's currently just shifting the various cloud layers using JQuery's animate() method. I imagine the main hit is layout & rendering, but that's just a preliminary guess. Specific ideas for improvements?
3d transition with css (even if it's a 2d move) might help since this may use the GPU. Also make sure it isn't nested in too many elements since chances will cause rerendering the DOM elements up to the root.
It isn't that bad and at least here smooth and only if the page is visible. But may have bad effects on mobile/retina/...
Am I the only one thinking there is something strange with the numbers in the screen capture ? the time is 4:42, the plane lands at 5:23, it's a 33 minutes drive... so you should leave in 8 minutes, not in 18 minutes.
It's correct. The numbers won't match your back-of-the-envelope calculations because it's a tad more involved than you're assuming. Among other factors, there's additional time for the plane to debark and for passengers to make it to baggage claim. You don't want to arrive at the airport just as the plane is landing. Plus, I'm not sure how Sean edited that video together when he did the screen capture.
That makes sense; however as a visitor of this page I don't know about all these details so I might think it's a possible error and I shouldn't trust your app. Basically there is a small risk to lose potential users here. I suggest choosing another example with a calculated vs intuitive time gap different from exactly 10 minutes.
Beautiful app. Love the custom animations. Focused and effective. Based on the apps I've worked on and the range of reviews to app downloads, this app probably has enjoyed the success of 200,000 to 500,000 downloads.
I've got this, I've used it a couple of times when I needed to pick my wife up. I think the last time I saw it on HN was a day or two before she was flying back from somewhere, so I gave it a shot just for fun. It worked great, thanks!
I've got a suggestion though. On the last flight I was on myself, just a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to the two guys next to me and one of 'em said something about wishing there was an app that would do basically what Just Landed does. I knew I had it but I couldn't remember the name of it and didn't manage to find it to show him before the conversation turned elsewhere. Neither "Flight" nor "Airplane" nor "Airport" in the search page turns this app up. It seems like it's possible for it to - "Flight" shows TripAdvisor's app for example. You might have been a couple of bucks richer if I'd been able to find the dang thing to show it off for you. I don't know how you get things other than your app name to work on the search page, but if TripAdvisor manages it, you can too! I believe in you! Make it happen! Also because I'm going to forget what it's called again by the next time I have to pick someone up at the airport.
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[ 1.1 ms ] story [ 196 ms ] thread- The airlines publish scheduled gate arrival times, whereas we show runway landing times and then factor time to the gate and time through the terminal when telling you when to leave.
- The airlines pad their times by 15-30 minutes depending on the route to allow them to be a little late and not get penalized for it.
Our times will almost always be earlier than the time printed in the itinerary or shown on the airline website. This is normal and intentional, and does not mean the data is wrong - in fact it's just giving a more accurate estimate of the actual landing time. I feel very comfortable making this statement as I have verified it in my own field testing, and I've also heard from thousands of happy customers who write to me to say how surprisingly accurate the app is in a real airport pickup scenario.
If you use the Google Now widget, it'll prioritize the flight and show you where it is.
It makes a lot of sense to develop an iOS app and push it out as soon as possible so that you can start getting feedback from real users. Version 2.0 can include an Android version.
Bullshit. As someone who develops for Android, this is nothing more than FUD thrown around by Apple fans/developers. Unless you're making a game or something, fragmentation is absolutely not an issue anymore.
I would say - if they supported longer lead times (so I could put in someone's info a week or a month in advance, and it would notify me, that would extend the value quite a bit). Otherwise, this app nails it.
As it turns out, we do try to factor additional time for international customs, but it's just an average since there's no real-time data available on customs wait times (which vary widely by airport, time of day, what passport the traveler has, and season). I also expect the customs folks don't make this information available because perhaps it would raise an airport security issue that could be exploited. In any case, I plan to submit freedom of information act requests for customs wait times, baggage wait times, and airport security wait times (that latter the TSA currently collects, but only makes available via their myTSA app).
Anyone have experience with filing freedom of information act requests, who might be able to help?
Every federal agency is required to designate a FOIA officer. In my limited exerperiance, the helpfulness of these officers vary wildly between agencies.
http://www.dhs.gov/foia-contact-information
TSA's is about 2/3 of the way down the page. Good luck!
Note that there's an art to writing an effective request. Too broad and you will be told 100,000 pages are responsive and how would you like to pay for the photocopying. Too narrow and you will get back "no responsive records found."
I think getting useful data on customs clearance would be a long shot -- good luck.
I don't know whom you may be able to get to help, but I would bet that the government doesn't actually have great data on custom wait time- I've never seen them track someone from entry to pass-through. I strongly doubt they have that.
Rather, I think you may have come upon a really cool opportunity- find a way to track it! You'll have data no one else on the planet has. It's like when Uber starts in a new city- the error on their time estimate starts high and decreases over time. If enough people use it, you'll get really got at predicting the wait time based on the factors you mentioned.
Idea: let the traveler download a free companion to the app. Then the user links to the traveler. Once the traveler lands, they can turn on their phone and let you see location.
The user gets an alert "Bob has landed!" and actually see where the traveler is. Over time, you'll get really great at refining the wait time prediction algorithm. You can ask nationality, etc.
Potential problems: No phone, international traveler can't use phone in destination due to roaming charges, can't have phone on in certain custom areas.
Our approach in GateGuru is to bundle the security wait time functionality with other, highly engaging and free services (such as flight tracking, itinerary management, and our amenity database) in a completely FREE app and scale our way into it.
We are deep into it and its an ongoing part of our strategy, but its not clear to me how you could generalize this and build a business around it without an amazing solution to this fundamental problem.
Potential applications: airports; theme parks; customs; popular restaurants; product launches; movie premieres.
(My beautiful wife and I were lucky in that we could cherry pick - I was travelling on my UK passport, she on her Australian, so depending on which queue was shortest we either went through together in the UK / Europe line (I'm travelling with my wife) or the Other Passports line (My wife is travelling with me)).
Now, this is probably a completely rational move from the company's perspective. Silicon Valley over the last few years has been backstopped by acquihires and other such soft landings, and big companies desperate to hire outstanding talent are often very willing to pay high prices for a great team. From the landing page at least, it certainly doesn't look like the Just Landed guys are amateurs. They're probably a very talented, capable team.
If they're successful, I won't begrudge them their success. However, I do lament the idea that the best minds of a generation are being focused on getting people to click on ads and minimizing the number of loop-arounds you have to do at the airport. I don't buy the idea that these guys wouldn't be focused on "harder" problems if consumer web didn't exist; of course they would. This kind of talent rises to the challenge. The idea that these are the problems whose solution drives us forwards is just a monumental lapse of creativity. Technology is an amazing thing, and we can do so much with it. I really think it's just an exposure issue -- people are used to web, and fields like the life sciences or hardware seem mysterious and complex. How do those become opened up?
[1]: http://www.getjustlanded.com/about
I think it's pretty clear what he means and there's plenty of room to argue against that, no need for this kind of post.
And moreover, it's boring: the complaint could be registered on most of the posts on Hacker News. Not everyone's going to save the world with their work, and that's okay. Tearing down other people's work over some perceived social injustice is not.
I think the link to the site might still be in my profile. If not, it is at healthgazelle.com. There is substantial info in the archive... Edit: linky:
oops sorry that's screwed up and won't be fixed, but this page will get you to the archive -- just don't click on "home":
http://www.healthgazelle.com/oldsite/cfandmoney.shtml
I think the domain name expires in July. So satisfy your curiosity if you wish.
Easier problems are solved first, and that's fine. There's less risk and so more growth per money invested. Not everything should be invested into super-high risk technology or something. Besides, this company might be bootstrapped.
It's also worth to note that first-world people tend to work on first-world problems. There's nothing wrong with that. It makes sense to work on problems that you're familiar with. I wouldn't start a restaurant since I've zero experience in that industry.
The problem is not that they're fixing a "easy problem". The problem is that for some unknown reason it hasn't been fixed yet.
That reminds me, I wrote about this after seeing quite a few companies like this at TC Disrupt: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/14/how-to-disrupt-petty-inconv...
But we don't know these guys, they may feel the same and this is a means to an end. Luckily the entire generation isn't working in Silicon Valley and there are similarly motivated people in climate change research, biotech etc.
I am advertising directly to the people who have downtime between flights, and developing a community around the developers to create apps that are geared and focused on this high-value target market.
We have location based coupons that know, by GPS, when you arrive at any airport in 36 countries. When you land - you are greeted by offers from any retailer in the market, and are given the option to book travel (uber/taxi/shuttle/limo) from the airport to a nearby hotel - we sell the hotel booking as well and make a cut on the room.
We also offer social games for those stuck in airports waiting. Play with people at your gate, on your flight, from your hometown airport or any other place! Again the ads are all from retailers directly around you!
Finally, we even offer a travellers hookup service, so if you want to look for lay-over travelers to hook up with, you can sign-up and hook up. (this product is called 'Laid-Overs' and is our most popular app!
We have an API that people can connect to also!
Run with it!
(it was a joke in response to the GP's being upset that great minds were being wasted on improving the Airport pickup experience.)
I think that's a really interesting question, but the way the rest of the post is/was written is going to work against it being considered.
I expect you'd have been better off writing something up on the idea in its own context and submitting it on its own.
Off the top of my head, I think we're already seeing hardware being "opened up" through things like Arduino, 3D printing and the ease of making global connections on sites like Alibaba. I can't really speak to life science, but I'm generally inclined to think that more (any?) exposure in primary education would help.
This generation is heartless!
Also, is there a word that refers to this sort of cyclical argument? ie: someone makes generalization, I say "all generalizations are bad" in reply, someone else makes a generalization arguing against mine, and so on? I feel like there should be.
As to why most software developers aren't working on harder problems, however, is that harder problems usually require more up-front investment and require the investor to take more risk. Without a previous record of success, it is difficult to get that trust.
SpaceX and Tesla don't happen by someone without a track record. Be a little easier on those who are trying to establish one. :)
That shouldn't be surprising, Zakat is one of the pillars of Islam...
As Turkey gets wealthier, many of these problems will arise. Homelessness is truly a first world problem, for example.
They're destroying the slums without making alternative housing arrangements. (Turkey's done some of this as well. Tarlabasi and Sulukule are prime examples. It's destroying communities, but India is much worse about it.)
I'd argue that Turkey is actively trying to destroy cultural identity as an extension of decades old habits, regardless of the government in power. (I'm not a Turkish apologist by any means.) However, I think this is getting off the main point of original post, so I'll stop here.
Big things often start small. In fact, usually start small.
And in any case it's just mean of you to piss all over these guys' efforts. It makes me embarrassed for HN when people launch something new, and this is the sort of response they get.
I agree assisting people to reach the airport on-time may morph into a larger corporate vision, but I disagree it's likely to contribute to solving cancer, making better fuel, or reaching strong AI. ...And it's arguably a distraction of rare talent from that calibre of problem.
Conversely, a startup that grows sufficiently big can contribute to the solution of almost any problem, including those you mention.
It saddens me that the most common response these days seems to be some version of 'Let me list all the reasons why this is crap.'
What happened?
Now that the population has grown, there are more commenters and more Show HNs, yet the presentation hasn't changed to accommodate this (same number of posts per page, same comment layout despite more comments, etc).
Maybe something like "Review HN"? Whatever it would be, it may be time to get more specific. Ultimately you're trying to filter out unhelpful comments. Those will always appear, but now there's just more of them in the same space...
@frisco: I can understand how you lumped Just Landed in with other Silicon Valley startups some of whom are creating frivolous apps and raising vast sums of money against small ideas. I suppose those irritate me too for the same reasons you mentioned.
However, in this case, you would be wrong to assume that Just Landed is just another overfunded startup trying to conquer the world with an airport pickup app. First off, Just Landed is not a startup. Just Landed is an app, built by myself and two of my buddies, because I kept making the mistake of forgetting to leave for the airport on time to pickup my girlfriend. After finding that no other apps were solving this problem (and that flight apps generally sucked), I decided to take a crack at it.
I don't make any claim that this is an important problem in our society (I built this app for myself), that this would be a good idea for a startup (it probably isn't), or that it's worthy of venture funding (so far it's not a great business). Just Landed was built with $15k of my own money as a fun side project while I figured out what I wanted to do next with my career. Frankly, I'm amazed how successful it has been - it was totally unexpected. Also, it's not even really a company - it was released under Little Details LLC because I needed to protect myself with limited liability (I also plan to make other commercial apps).
Finally, while we have certainly had offers, it is also not my goal to be "acquihired". I'm actually working on a mobile game right now, and am thoroughly enjoying myself. My goal is to be free to work on my own fun projects for as long as I'm able. If I come upon an idea worthy of a startup, something that can really change the world, that's a different story. FWIW I've already failed twice at a startup (went through YC once), so for now I'm taking a break and building apps.
Just Landed is not going to change the world, but it sure saves my ass (and helps hundreds of thousands of other people) when it comes to going to the airport to pick someone up.
I'm actually quite proud of myself for keeping the costs so low. Try asking some big companies what they spent on their apps - you might be in for a surprise (think huge numbers)!
15k isn't really that much. One month of his time is probably at least 10k, especially once you start thinking about health care and other benefits.
For many of us, side project time is enjoyable and not thought of as a cost center, but a happy-center.
:-)
Just Landed does that, but it's not an "important" enough problem to solve. He "wasted" his talent and should have focused on the larger problems that plague humanity.
I get that entrepreneurs need feedback, but there's a difference between helping and just plain being an asshole.
This kind of stuff isn't helpful to the community - we see it over and over. My hope is that people won't be deterred by it in the future....otherwise HN will lose it's value.
@jgraili I think this app is cool - kudos to you for the awesome execution. I'm downloading it - I could have totally used it yesterday :)
Aside from being an overstatement, this is correct. And if anyone would think about it, that's something working in their favor. Unless you're one of those "profit is evil" people, when you're building a business with the intention of making money, you'll probably want to target a market that actually has disposable income.
Yep, it's very much a first world problem, but the negativity on that point is unwarranted. I doubt they started it with the intention of fixing society.
people in the 2nd world and developing world also need to pick people up from airports. they also ALL have phones that are capable of receiving text messages and many of them have smartphones.
and not everyone drives, but everyone sure as hell can call a cab. in case you didn't notice there are LOTS of cabs in the developing world.
quick top of the head guesses for market population size:
entire US: 300M entire EU: 700M+ middle class chinese: 300M middle class africans: 100M (??) middle class south americans: 300M (??)
what percentage of these people have smartphones? what percentage WILL have smart phones in 5 years?
Now think of the fuel and productivity costs of airport pickups. Usually if I'm early I end up driving around the airport, or worse, spending lots of money on parking. In India people typically wait at the side of the road with their AC on. If this app works perfectly, there is a lot of real gain to be had, and not just in the US.
Posting a comment just to say that someone shouldn't have built it in the first place is profoundly unhelpful. Actually, its worse than that. Its un-useful.
Now, this is probably a completely rational move from your perspective. HN over the last few years has been backstopped by middlebrow-dismissals and other such poo-poo-ings, and bored programmers desperate to win karma are often very willing to waste hours crafting popular but mean comments. From your previous comments at least, it certainly doesn't look like you are just trolling. You're probably a very talented, capable person.
Since you seem to work at Transcriptic, I won't begrudge you your karma. However, I do lament the idea that the best minds of a generation are being focused on getting people to dismiss others' creations and directing all creative effort to what you deem to be "important problems". I don't buy the idea that you wouldn't be focused on a "better" use of your time if HN didn't exist; of course you would. This kind of talent is ambitious and gets things done. The idea that these are the types of comments that rise to the top is just a monumental lapse of discussion quality on HN. Scratching your own itch is an amazing thing, and we can do so much with it. I really think it's just an attitude issue -- people are used to dismissing new technology as frivolous, and mobile apps, in particular, seem totally pointless. How do we become less dismissive and more encouraging to makers?
how self-referential
Speaking from experiences. Also my gf is a FA.
I realize web pages have discovery problems, but so do apps at this point. But if the goal is an aquihire, I guess they can get bigger bonuses as an app development team rather than a web development team.
Kudos to Jon, Graham, and Sean for putting together a great app. Looks clean and works wonderfully - can't ask for much more!
Are you working with FlightStats?
I know that the animations is fancy, but are they really necessary?
In addition, you may also want to try forcing hardware acceleration: http://davidwalsh.name/translate3d
It isn't that bad and at least here smooth and only if the page is visible. But may have bad effects on mobile/retina/...
Props for noticing tho ;)
I've got a suggestion though. On the last flight I was on myself, just a couple of weeks ago, I was talking to the two guys next to me and one of 'em said something about wishing there was an app that would do basically what Just Landed does. I knew I had it but I couldn't remember the name of it and didn't manage to find it to show him before the conversation turned elsewhere. Neither "Flight" nor "Airplane" nor "Airport" in the search page turns this app up. It seems like it's possible for it to - "Flight" shows TripAdvisor's app for example. You might have been a couple of bucks richer if I'd been able to find the dang thing to show it off for you. I don't know how you get things other than your app name to work on the search page, but if TripAdvisor manages it, you can too! I believe in you! Make it happen! Also because I'm going to forget what it's called again by the next time I have to pick someone up at the airport.