I wonder if it accepts counterfeit dollars. [edit:] to clarify, I don't mean this as a joke. It seems that they're not paying out cash (only taking in) because they don't trust the depositor and have to wait anywhere from 10 mins to a couple hours for a transaction. But how can they trust the incoming cash? It seems like a perfect venue for a counterfeiter.
I was wondering that myself. I assume they have some anti-counterfeiting tech in there? Though that seems tough if the machine is built for so many different currencies.
For some reason I always thought that was a manual affair. In Australia deposits are just money stuffed in an envelope with your intended value on it, that go into a slot in the ATM.
I actually recently went to an ATM to deposit money, which I haven't done in a long while, and was pretty confused not to find any envelopes available.
I had to learn all fifty states' postal abbreviations and capital cities in elementary school, back in the 20th century. Seriously, kids these days! Now get off my lawn.
(And if you're reading this and you're not an American? You should learn this stuff anyway, because the world revolves around US.)
i don't get it, in what form/format does this machine 'dispense' bitcoins?
I'm not a bitcoin expert, but bitcoins are digital currency, right? How does a physical machine dispense digital currency? You attach a USB drive to it or something?
I can't be sure of this. But my guess other than a USB drive like you mentioned would be, you simply input a Bitcoin address for them to be sent to.
This way you could send the Bitcoins to a personal wallet, online hosted wallet, or even straight to Mt. Gox.
Or perhaps it does something more physical like creating a new wallet for you and physically prints out the private key of the wallet for you to keep with you.
Presumably you either show the machine a QR code on your phone/tablet (which represents a bitcoin payment address), or it prints out a private key for you to input into your software (which can then be swept of its coins).
If I get paid in Bitcoins and only spend bitcoins, can I still report that I earned zero Monopoly Money-US dollars this year?
Does that mean when this takes off I can earn, exchange and sell units of future human labor without the friction of governments taking 25% to 35% of it?
We can assume the government will spare no expense in destroying bitcoin by fiat by making laws against it, and if that doesn't work, using economic hit-men, supporting jackals, or the old trusty domestic military action with soldiers from Georgia and Virginia to break down the door of anyone caught using it under the table.
The question is, how is this war going to unfold? Will the US dollar be allowed to be exposed as the always-inflating Monopoly Money it is, and slowly fade out over the next 20 years? So many possibilities.
If bitcoin can survive laws that make it illegal, taxes on it that make it less useful than USD, assassinations of key figures, the destruction of companies promoting it, and domestic military action, then bitcoin might have a shot at becoming the next world currency.
Otherwise, a combination of these things will erase it to a footnote in the history books. But you can be darn certain that the government is going to levy their tax on the income of bitcoins. In the interests of the sovreign, to promote "fairness".
The government does not levy taxes on US dollar, but on the income, be it in dollars, monopoly money, bitcoins, mussels or pigs. It's just in some cases the low scale of the phenomenon makes collecting the tax more expensive than the collected sum. However, if the alternate currency should rise above a certain level you can be sure, it will be taxed.
And the government really does not levy the tax because "they are evil them", but because the governed society has certain needs that can only be fulfilled by common effort and it would be good to minimize freeridership. Of course one can discuss whether certain governmental activities are needed or not, but to abandon all government wouldn't do any good.
The noisy extremist factions within Libertarianism are heavily-represented here. I've never seen HN have a productive discussion on the role of government.
But if I earn only bitcoins. The government wants their stake. I guess I would be forced to exchange some of my bitcoins for US Dollar and then give them that? I suppose that's actually good! As the government inflates the Dollars I don't feel much inflation because I only held dollars in the time it took me to move the money from A to B.
It would be fine that the government shoots all US dollar holders in the foot by inflating their currency, the value of bitcoin relative to dollars would always increase, because the US Dollars would asymptotically approach zero value over time, as it has been. The bitcoin I worked hard to earn would retain their value. And the burglars would use their old fashioned tools to pilfer trillions from all Dollar holders, and will be forced to yet again shout: "darn" when they figure out they are only stealing from their left pocket to put into their right pocket. A waste of time.
Why do you think that getting paid in bitcoins is any different than getting paid in gold coins, or diamonds, or Pokémon cards? You can safely assume that every government in the world has considered and closed that particular tax loophole aeons ago.
If you earn in anything, you have to pay USD tax on it at the 'fair market value' of the earning, in USD.
It's not like this is some kind of corner case.
It's as if the money we earn is written on paper with disappearing ink. You better consume it quickly, or else it will have no value soon.
This planet is in desperate need of a currency that can't be inflated by a select group of people not loyal to the interests of American Citizens. If a bitcoin ATM shows up nearby me, I would probably pay money just to help fund the cause.
If the bitcoins are given in exchange for work, he is taxed as if it was income, and at income tax rates, much like if he was given a stock grant in a public company. Also, these taxes are calculated when he is paid, not when he sells the bitcoins, so if they lose value, he is still on the hook for the full income tax (which is in USD in the US).
However, if he sells bitcoins in the future, he will be forced to pay capital gains taxes on the difference in price between when he received the bitcoins (and paid income tax then) and when he sells. If he sells at a loss, he can use his losses to offset his income tax.
The value of US currency stems from its being accepted by the US government. The value of bitcoins stems from their being accepted in exchange for other currencies.
30 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 68.4 ms ] threadThey'd have to be really good fake bills.
You might even guess it's related to "NiMH" or is some other kind of chemical compound.
(And if you're reading this and you're not an American? You should learn this stuff anyway, because the world revolves around US.)
Bitcoin ATM: https://bitcoinatm.com/media/pictures/flagship1.png
Bitcoin Machine (the one this article is about): http://rack.1.mshcdn.com/media/ZgkyMDEzLzA1LzAyLzEzL0xhbWFzc...
I'm not a bitcoin expert, but bitcoins are digital currency, right? How does a physical machine dispense digital currency? You attach a USB drive to it or something?
This way you could send the Bitcoins to a personal wallet, online hosted wallet, or even straight to Mt. Gox.
Or perhaps it does something more physical like creating a new wallet for you and physically prints out the private key of the wallet for you to keep with you.
Does that mean when this takes off I can earn, exchange and sell units of future human labor without the friction of governments taking 25% to 35% of it?
We can assume the government will spare no expense in destroying bitcoin by fiat by making laws against it, and if that doesn't work, using economic hit-men, supporting jackals, or the old trusty domestic military action with soldiers from Georgia and Virginia to break down the door of anyone caught using it under the table.
The question is, how is this war going to unfold? Will the US dollar be allowed to be exposed as the always-inflating Monopoly Money it is, and slowly fade out over the next 20 years? So many possibilities.
If bitcoin can survive laws that make it illegal, taxes on it that make it less useful than USD, assassinations of key figures, the destruction of companies promoting it, and domestic military action, then bitcoin might have a shot at becoming the next world currency.
Otherwise, a combination of these things will erase it to a footnote in the history books. But you can be darn certain that the government is going to levy their tax on the income of bitcoins. In the interests of the sovreign, to promote "fairness".
And the government really does not levy the tax because "they are evil them", but because the governed society has certain needs that can only be fulfilled by common effort and it would be good to minimize freeridership. Of course one can discuss whether certain governmental activities are needed or not, but to abandon all government wouldn't do any good.
It would be fine that the government shoots all US dollar holders in the foot by inflating their currency, the value of bitcoin relative to dollars would always increase, because the US Dollars would asymptotically approach zero value over time, as it has been. The bitcoin I worked hard to earn would retain their value. And the burglars would use their old fashioned tools to pilfer trillions from all Dollar holders, and will be forced to yet again shout: "darn" when they figure out they are only stealing from their left pocket to put into their right pocket. A waste of time.
Also known as taxable capital gains.
This planet is in desperate need of a currency that can't be inflated by a select group of people not loyal to the interests of American Citizens. If a bitcoin ATM shows up nearby me, I would probably pay money just to help fund the cause.
However, if he sells bitcoins in the future, he will be forced to pay capital gains taxes on the difference in price between when he received the bitcoins (and paid income tax then) and when he sells. If he sells at a loss, he can use his losses to offset his income tax.
Friction or error term + commons fee.
> Will the US dollar be allowed to be exposed as the always-inflating Monopoly Money
Probably more accurate to call it monetarist monopoly money vs crypto-anarchist monopoly money, though the monopoly is arguably redundant.