Ask HN: How often do salary expectations not match up?
I recently had a 2 day interview, which went well until at the end we found out my salary expectations did not match up to theirs (85k in SF). It ended up to be a waste of time for both parties, as they didn't want to budge from 85k, and I didn't want to appear weak by backing down.
How often do your salary expectations not line up with the offer? Either as the prospective employee or employer.
Or are companies and employees generally within a ballpark on what they perceive as market rates.
I have to admit I thought the market rate in SF would be much higher, given what I've read in HN. It would have been relatively entry level but at a financial firm.
15 comments
[ 3.9 ms ] story [ 43.1 ms ] threadAlso, it boggles my mind that a company would spend 2 full days interviewing someone for an entry level person, and then on top of that it boggles a bit more because if they spent 2 days you'd think it is because they are being super safe and trying to find a great fit, and if they did find a great fit, finally, after all that work, why they wouldn't consider going up at all.
Sounds like a real clusterfuck all around.
They may have considered going up if they didn't have another option. I was told they were out for a week, which I interpret as them making an offer to someone else first. For all I know this person was a better candidate all around, but I'd be wary of hiring someone clearly unhappy about the salary too. Overplayed my cards, live and learn.
"Let's assume I'm a really good match for this position and you want to make me an offer. What's the range of compensation you would be comfortable with?"
After that I went back to always asking the salary range beforehand.
Starting salaries in my area for developers with a BS is around 60k-65k/yr with benefits.
I'm at the high end of salaries, and I'm not taking 2 days off of work to interview for each job, only to find out it isn't in my range. I think companies that are cagey about this are either going to come in low, or are self-centered in their thinking (we are so awesome to work with, salary shouldn't matter!), both of which are bad signs for what should be a win-win relationship.
I think there was definitely this element here. The feeling I get was that they expected candidates to jump at the chance to break into the industry. This is probably true. They were able to recruit people from top tier schools and I later heard they were famous even amongst funds. Yet, I don't think they distinguished that the career path is quite different as a programmer vs. a trader. As a programmer in a finance firm, my fear is that I'd be viewed as a cost center, a 2nd class citizen. Also it's a bit specialized and legacy tech work, like doing COBOL at a bank. Thus, I'd like to be paid up front and not in promises.
* For most 100 person+ tech companies in SF/Boston/NY, there most likely will be salary bands for different roles and levels. You can get this information on glassdoor and other sites.
* The waters get tricky with seed/early-stage startups, without dedicated HR resources, since most founders are not great at HR consistency. For such interviews, its OK and helpful to ask for a broad range for the role during the screening interviews. Its usually hard for the company to give you specific #s because they haven't completed technical interviews, and have no idea how good you really are.
* For BOTH big and small companies, its OK to ask for their comp philosophy early in the process. Eg. some companies pay higher-than-market cash but low options. Some incentivise the other way. If its more that 10-15 people, they should have an answer for this. If its a very early stage company, they may not have figured this out yet.
* Across all offers, you should be comparing total comp, not just base salary. Total comp = base salary + bonuses + stock options + healthcare + other benefits. For a early-stage startup, you may be able to ask them to move some of these around, based on your personal needs. After about 10-15 people, it becomes really hard for the company to do this, because everyone has to fit into comp bands.
* Advice to me from the head of recruiting/HR at a 3000+ person leading bay-area company: Every candidate they hired came up with an argument/data on why they should be paid more. Its part of the negotiation process, and the equivalent is me going to investors with a pre-money valuation that I think we're worth for our next financing.
* No company wants to interview a candidate for 2 days and discover they can't close the candidate because he/she is amazing but has completely different salary expectations. Hiring is huge team effort, and that's a bad outcome for the company too.
I just turned down an "opportunity" to talk with Kixeye because when I asked "so what would this hypothetical position you are going to create for me actually pay?" they said they don't discuss salary until they are ready to make an offer. Thanks, but no thanks. I don't have time to waste on losers like that.