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Ask HN: How'd you deal with a client who insists to pay you less than decided?

6 points by um304 ↗ HN
I confess my mistake, I should have had a written contract signed by both parties before the training had begun. It was a basic JEE training with Spring+Hibernate stack and I created a short course outline which I estimated to take 15-20 hours depending upon the how quickly audience would learn different concepts. One of the company's technical manager said that I can add more things into the outline if I find necessary. After every session, I would email company seniors with number of hours consumed. Finally we ended up consuming 22.75 hours. When I went to the finance officer for paycheck, he said I was supposed to take 15-16 hours but I took a lot more than that. His tone was as if I have tricked him into paying more and he was now worried how he would justify the case to his seniors.

What would you do if you were in this position?

14 comments

[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 42.1 ms ] thread
a3n
It sounds like you've already done it: you learned a lesson, and only lost five to seven hours pay. Bargain.
um304
Thanks for suggestion, a3n. I had a wild thought that I would either take all money or none of it and hit them morally, but after talking to a couple of people, I feel real world has its own mechanics and bargaining is an essential part of it.
codegeek
"or none of it and hit them morally"

Please don't do this ever. There is no such thing as hitting them morally. If they are not paying you for extra 6 hours, they don't care about morality anyway. Value your work and get paid.

nmridul
Also, do you think they would have more work for you ?

If yes, then just take whatever they give you and then don't bargain for that 6-7 hours. If they think you are easily manipulable, you might get more work from them. Take the work and you could be in a better bargaining position.

codegeek
Since you have no written contract, you can only try and negotiate whatever you can at this point. Think about the time it will take to negotiate vs the pay for those extra 6 hours or so. There will be a point when it will not be worth it and you just need to cut your losses and move on.

My advice: cut your losses and move on asap. You have certainly learnt a lesson the hard way which is always effective. You will never (hopefully) get into this situation because you know better now. You are wiser now.

um304
Yep, no point in negotiating 10 hours for a loss of 6 hours. Thanks codegeek!
willholloway
Watch F*ck you pay me: http://vimeo.com/22053820 and never let this happen again.

The only thing you can really do now is talk to them and try to get them to pay you, but you have no real leverage.

Consider yourself lucky, freelancers get burned and not paid for a month or more of work all too frequently. Protect yourself in the future with a solid contract.

um304
Wow, this is an awesome video, I wish I had seen it before the training began. I really liked the ideas of "Kill fee", writing a new contract when original requirements change and "discussing things out over a cup of coffee because we both wanted same thing but had different approach toward it". Thanks for sharing!
late2part
Sounds to me like you have a written contract, your email thread. You submitted your hours, they acknowledge them (I assume). Did they acknowledge your rate? You have a written contract, no?
um304
If we can count emails, yes there are a few things documented, my daily hours at top of the list. Yes they did acknowledge the rate, but unfortunately it was only verbal. As I mentioned in my question, there was no written contract.
gesman
1. Take whatever you can take and fast.

2. Do something (if it's not too late) so client will have to come back to you for more technical help.

3. After clearing check - inform your client that you're now working on a retainer-only basis (like lawyers do).

4. When client requests your help - trigger "retainer required for further assistance" reply.

um304
Thanks for advice, gesman. "Retainer" was a new term for me and I found this link helpful to learn bit about it: http://www.contractorcalculator.co.uk/charging_clients_retai...
gesman
Alternatively - if you see client would likely need more of your help - maintain good connection without negative sparkles, but for any further gigs request 100% of your fee upfront. I did it a few times with unruly clients. When I receive 100% check - i deposit it but do not use money whatsoever until project is fully implemented to keep myself disciplined too :)
petervandijck
Talk to the people who approved the hours and ask them to call the finance officer to get you paid.