As a big TI fan (I love hacking on the MSP430, Stellaris, BeagleBone, etc), the Chronos would be great if it weren't so incredibly 1970s/early 1980s dorky looking. I mean, I'm not particularly fashion conscious, but I wouldn't wear that thing.
Without Bluetooth support, it's not much use. You'd be limited to having a dongle connected your smartphone, or the watch only working when you were within the range of a base station.
The watch has bluetooth, a touchscreen, and an STM32F2 microcontroller [disappointed its not a F4 :( ] which makes it a powerful and cheap development kit. Their instructions for flashing the firmware of the chip uses open source dfu-util so IIRC you'll be able to flash a binary to the STM32F2 from any compatible toolchain. Surprise, surprise, this means Arduino from LeafLabs!: https://github.com/leaflabs/www.leaflabs.com/blob/master/pos...
Looking at http://www.cmw.me/?q=node/59 you could even replace their PCB with your own, preserving the LCD connections and upgrading the processor to an even more power efficient one with a sensor or two added on (this is a four layer board at most, you could theoretically make the ICs even denser). However, you'll probably want to find someone with a pick and place + reflow at a hackspace or something unless you're confident you can reflow leadless chips and 0201 components yourself.
I would never trust Sony's release of hardware with official open-source software support, after they removed the official Linux support for old-model PlayStation 3's [1]. (The support was removed through a firmware update for hardware in the wild. This firmware update was non-optional if you want to use subsequently produced official games, or use the console's online service. I never did either, and Sony and its developers have probably lost hundreds of my dollars over the past few years as a result.)
This is also the company that put rootkits on CD's [2].
I no longer do business with Sony if I can avoid it.
Sony is a big multinational corporation. As is the case with, say, Microsoft, it is not helpful to appreciate its actions as coming from a single entity.
So if I have a particular experience with them, I can't draw any inferences about future interactions from that?
Also, Sony itself clearly wishes to be perceived as a single entity, since they proudly display the Sony brand on all their products and marketing.
I can follow that people -- and corporations -- change over time, and sometimes problems like this are flukes, rather than part of the fundamental nature. So I'll stay away from them for a decade or two; if they don't make any other really sleazy moves in that time frame, I'll eventually give them another chance if they make something I want to buy.
Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal? I am asking because everybody complaining about this on the Internet does not even own a PS3 and people who actually had ran Linux did not complain about the update as it did not affect them much.
The only issue you'd had if you used PS3 for computation was the fact that the hardware had been discontinued (long time before the update), but then it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided.
> people who actually had ran Linux did not complain about the update
I ran Linux on the PS3, and I complained loudly and bitterly about Sony's actions.
> Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal?
Yes, I have. I specifically asked the Gamestop clerk for an old model, at a time when both the old (Linux-supporting) and new (non-Linux-supporting) machines were available in stores.
I can't speak for sure about a hypothetical alternative reality, but I think it's likely I would have waited a little longer to buy one, if not for the Linux feature -- specifically I was worried that the Linux-supporting older model would become hard to find.
So you can say I wouldn't have bought a PS3 but for its Linux capabilities, and the removal of those capabilities rendered the rationale for my investment invalid.
> it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided
It's not solely a matter of computing power provided. I thought the Cell's unique architecture was interesting.
Also, in those pre-Raspberry-Pi days, the console wasn't a bad price point to get a general-purpose system with networking, USB and Blu-ray (especially if you bought used hardware), that could also do video out to pre-HDMI TV's.
If you did not care for anything other than running Linux why did you update firmware? It's only needed to play newer games and blu-rays, things you say that did not matter to you.
This the essential problem that I see (usually put in ridiculous context like "UASAF used a PS3 cluster and NOW THEY CANNOT!!!!!1!") - if you run Linux you don't care much about the games and even if you do - all the games you already had before the update don't go away.
There is no guarantee that new games will ever come again so your ability to run newer games is not a right. If Sony pulled PS3 off the market instead of issuing an update you would not get any games as well.
But it's still hard to imagine somebody in need of both Linux and newest games simultaneously. If you are one of such people - you are member of very unique and small group. No company size of Sony is ever going to carter to such a small group.
It's not entirely true that "all the games you already had before the update don't go away". Although you could still play your current games, the multiplayer portions of those games required you to be connected to the PS network, which in turn required the latest firmware upgrade that removed Linux.
I stayed on the firmware with Linux and was fine with not being able to play new games but it did kind of suck that I couldn't play multiplayer games I'd already purchased.
This is true, although the MP availability is even less ensured than that of the new games. MP servers are routinely taken down on all platforms. And for the same reason the Other OS had been taken down - not enough people used it to justify the maintenance cost.
I am one of those people who needed both Yellow Dog and PSN with games and Netflix. This was far before Wine was hacked to support Netflix. I used my PS3 as my primary desktop for a long time, and liked the ability to reboot for games.
I eventually needed it more as a Netflix box, so the desktop got replaced. I haven't bought anything from Sony since.
The move was more than just inconvenience. The presence of an OtherOS feature in a major DRM platform was an olive branch. Sony was saying its proprietary system could happily coexist with open systems. By removing this feature, they sent the message that coexistence was impossible. They don't encourage installing non-Sony software on any devices they sell now as far as I know.
Maybe we'll find some way to restore the truce, but it has to come from their side. Free software is always open for integration. It's built-in. If Sony decides they can coexist with it again, all will be well.
Read more carefully. I didn't update the firmware.
> things you say that did not matter to you.
Being able to buy and play all the games I wanted, over the lifetime of the console, mattered a great deal to me. Being able to use Linux on the console also mattered a great deal to me. Due to Sony's policy, I had to give one of these things up. I chose the former, because I was pissed at Sony for forcing me to make this choice, and that's the choice that would hurt Sony more.
Imagine you buy a car. You really like the car's excellent sound system, particularly its built-in slot into which you can put any USB device containing your music.
One day you go to the garage and they tell you that, because some clever tinkerer somewhere used the USB port to hack the stereo system and might someday be able to download copyrighted songs from the radio, the manufacturer is not only omitting the feature from new models, but is requiring their dealerships' service departments to pour acid in the USB port of every car already on the road to permanently disable it!
You have the right to refuse, of course. But you'll never be able to install another stereo system because the wiring is all proprietary. Furthermore, you can't get repairs or oil changes anywhere but official dealerships, because only proprietary wrenches can remove the right mechanical parts. All official dealerships are required by the manufacturer to pour the acid before they can do anything else.
Apparently few people care about this policy; it seems that most people just use their car for driving, and listen to the radio if they want music. Only a few hardcore nerds even know what USB ports are, and nobody cares about them.
Would you understand a customer who refused to do business with that manufacturer again?
Would you understand a customer who refused all maintenance, because he didn't want any more of his dollars to go into the manufacturer's wallet as a matter of principle, even if he'd also be hurting himself because he wouldn't be able to use the car as he'd planned to?
> it's still hard to imagine somebody in need of both Linux and newest games simultaneously
Using Linux is nerdy. Playing the latest video games is nerdy. I'm a nerd. There are lots of us. Seriously, someone on a website called Hacker News says this?
> No company the size of Sony is ever going to carter to such a small group.
Why did they ever offer OtherOS in the first place, if not "cartering" to my small group?
>Why did they ever offer OtherOS in the first place, if not "cartering" to my small group?
The common belief is that's it was done to bypass EU tariffs on game systems by representing PS3 as a computer (same thing they tried to do with PS2 and a bundled BASIC interpreter).
I don't support that theory and think that Sony believed that there are more people interested in homebrew on Playstation. After all, they had Net Yaroze and PS2 Linux on previous systems. I guess somebody thought that it's because of the additional cost of the previous solutions the homebrew did not take off.
These people come from the Sony Ericsson joint venture. Technically speaking, they weren't part of Sony until February of last year, when Sony bought out Ericsson's stake in the joint venture. Sony Ericsson had a reasonably good relationship with the developer community pre-acquisition (they've been called out by JBQ as a good AOSP citizen and, IIRC, had official boot loader unlocks for retail phones before HTC).
At the time, I remember wondering if being acquired by Sony proper would start to move that in the wrong direction, but, if anything, they've gotten better: they open-sourced their sensor HAL, they have official AOSP projects for several devices (including the Xperia S which was the first attempt at a non-Nexus AOSP phone) and now trying to open the SmartWatch.
You can feel free to judge these people for the actions of a different department of a company they weren't even part of at the time. I prefer to consider things case-by-case.
About a year ago, I applied as an app developer and received a free Sony Smartwatch to develop apps on. I tried wearing the watch for a couple days before I planned to start programming my app. The user experience was pretty horrible. The watch wasn't that responsive, had connectivity issues, and had a pretty poor looking UI.
Rather than "open sourced" all I see is "a bit open specced". Yes, the "hacker guide" has details of what chips are on the board, and how they are connected:
http://developer.sonymobile.com/services/open-smartwatch-pro...
... and there's a separate page with a guide to putting it in DFU mode to upload a firmware.
Which is cool, but the chip names could have been found by the people who'd already done teardowns and the pinouts could be found by buzzing one out (possibly sacrificially by removing chips.)
The chip datasheets they link were all all already publically available, the Cypress touch sensor one is even a link to alldatasheet.com(!)
Probably the biggest letdown is the Bluetooth/FM chip made by Sony, arguably the most useful and most complex device aside from the MCU. That link is to Sony's marketing specs page with a block diagram and not much technical info that I can see. I can't find any information about the chip made available to the public by Sony.
Ironically enough there is a longer 6 page Sony datasheet leaked on datasheet sites, but even this doesn't have pinouts or begin to explain how the SPI interface to Bluetooth/FM functionality actually works.
I think it's good that a major company like Sony released even this small amount of information, although it's worth noting that reverse engineers have found more information on similar products acting entirely by themselves (take for instance the PS3 Move controller: http://eissq.com/ps3_move/ )
On the other hand I think it's very bad that most people will glance at this and see Sony "open sourcing" something when they appear to be open sourcing nearly nothing. The RTOS they used is probably proprietary property of a third party so they can't open source that, but they could release their application source code for the smartwatch - allowing people to see how they communicate with the Bluetooth/FM chip, for instance. That kind of source could be ported to an open source RTOS.
The optimist in me hopes that detailed technical information will be forthcoming over time, but the pessimist in me thinks this is the feel-good last gasp of an end-of-life product. :/
Feels totally half-assed to me, after reading this. Either I want people to hack & play and support them with it or I don't. How can you damage the hardware of this simple device with a hacked Android? What do these lawyers think?
That someone hacks a version of Android that makes the SmartWatch go up in smoke and every kid that has bought one and got a scratch on their glass will load that up so they can claim warranty on their device? Seriously?
24 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 71.2 ms ] thread[1] - http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/EZ430-Chronos
The watch has bluetooth, a touchscreen, and an STM32F2 microcontroller [disappointed its not a F4 :( ] which makes it a powerful and cheap development kit. Their instructions for flashing the firmware of the chip uses open source dfu-util so IIRC you'll be able to flash a binary to the STM32F2 from any compatible toolchain. Surprise, surprise, this means Arduino from LeafLabs!: https://github.com/leaflabs/www.leaflabs.com/blob/master/pos...
Looking at http://www.cmw.me/?q=node/59 you could even replace their PCB with your own, preserving the LCD connections and upgrading the processor to an even more power efficient one with a sensor or two added on (this is a four layer board at most, you could theoretically make the ICs even denser). However, you'll probably want to find someone with a pick and place + reflow at a hackspace or something unless you're confident you can reflow leadless chips and 0201 components yourself.
This is also the company that put rootkits on CD's [2].
I no longer do business with Sony if I can avoid it.
EDIT: This was downvoted within two minutes? Why?
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS#History
[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_rootkit
Also, Sony itself clearly wishes to be perceived as a single entity, since they proudly display the Sony brand on all their products and marketing.
I can follow that people -- and corporations -- change over time, and sometimes problems like this are flukes, rather than part of the fundamental nature. So I'll stay away from them for a decade or two; if they don't make any other really sleazy moves in that time frame, I'll eventually give them another chance if they make something I want to buy.
The only issue you'd had if you used PS3 for computation was the fact that the hardware had been discontinued (long time before the update), but then it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided.
I ran Linux on the PS3, and I complained loudly and bitterly about Sony's actions.
> Had you actually suffered from the Other OS removal?
Yes, I have. I specifically asked the Gamestop clerk for an old model, at a time when both the old (Linux-supporting) and new (non-Linux-supporting) machines were available in stores.
I can't speak for sure about a hypothetical alternative reality, but I think it's likely I would have waited a little longer to buy one, if not for the Linux feature -- specifically I was worried that the Linux-supporting older model would become hard to find.
So you can say I wouldn't have bought a PS3 but for its Linux capabilities, and the removal of those capabilities rendered the rationale for my investment invalid.
> it's been already too expensive for the computing power it provided
It's not solely a matter of computing power provided. I thought the Cell's unique architecture was interesting.
Also, in those pre-Raspberry-Pi days, the console wasn't a bad price point to get a general-purpose system with networking, USB and Blu-ray (especially if you bought used hardware), that could also do video out to pre-HDMI TV's.
This the essential problem that I see (usually put in ridiculous context like "UASAF used a PS3 cluster and NOW THEY CANNOT!!!!!1!") - if you run Linux you don't care much about the games and even if you do - all the games you already had before the update don't go away.
There is no guarantee that new games will ever come again so your ability to run newer games is not a right. If Sony pulled PS3 off the market instead of issuing an update you would not get any games as well.
But it's still hard to imagine somebody in need of both Linux and newest games simultaneously. If you are one of such people - you are member of very unique and small group. No company size of Sony is ever going to carter to such a small group.
I stayed on the firmware with Linux and was fine with not being able to play new games but it did kind of suck that I couldn't play multiplayer games I'd already purchased.
I eventually needed it more as a Netflix box, so the desktop got replaced. I haven't bought anything from Sony since.
The move was more than just inconvenience. The presence of an OtherOS feature in a major DRM platform was an olive branch. Sony was saying its proprietary system could happily coexist with open systems. By removing this feature, they sent the message that coexistence was impossible. They don't encourage installing non-Sony software on any devices they sell now as far as I know.
Maybe we'll find some way to restore the truce, but it has to come from their side. Free software is always open for integration. It's built-in. If Sony decides they can coexist with it again, all will be well.
Read more carefully. I didn't update the firmware.
> things you say that did not matter to you.
Being able to buy and play all the games I wanted, over the lifetime of the console, mattered a great deal to me. Being able to use Linux on the console also mattered a great deal to me. Due to Sony's policy, I had to give one of these things up. I chose the former, because I was pissed at Sony for forcing me to make this choice, and that's the choice that would hurt Sony more.
Imagine you buy a car. You really like the car's excellent sound system, particularly its built-in slot into which you can put any USB device containing your music.
One day you go to the garage and they tell you that, because some clever tinkerer somewhere used the USB port to hack the stereo system and might someday be able to download copyrighted songs from the radio, the manufacturer is not only omitting the feature from new models, but is requiring their dealerships' service departments to pour acid in the USB port of every car already on the road to permanently disable it!
You have the right to refuse, of course. But you'll never be able to install another stereo system because the wiring is all proprietary. Furthermore, you can't get repairs or oil changes anywhere but official dealerships, because only proprietary wrenches can remove the right mechanical parts. All official dealerships are required by the manufacturer to pour the acid before they can do anything else.
Apparently few people care about this policy; it seems that most people just use their car for driving, and listen to the radio if they want music. Only a few hardcore nerds even know what USB ports are, and nobody cares about them.
Would you understand a customer who refused to do business with that manufacturer again?
Would you understand a customer who refused all maintenance, because he didn't want any more of his dollars to go into the manufacturer's wallet as a matter of principle, even if he'd also be hurting himself because he wouldn't be able to use the car as he'd planned to?
> it's still hard to imagine somebody in need of both Linux and newest games simultaneously
Using Linux is nerdy. Playing the latest video games is nerdy. I'm a nerd. There are lots of us. Seriously, someone on a website called Hacker News says this?
> No company the size of Sony is ever going to carter to such a small group.
Why did they ever offer OtherOS in the first place, if not "cartering" to my small group?
The common belief is that's it was done to bypass EU tariffs on game systems by representing PS3 as a computer (same thing they tried to do with PS2 and a bundled BASIC interpreter).
I don't support that theory and think that Sony believed that there are more people interested in homebrew on Playstation. After all, they had Net Yaroze and PS2 Linux on previous systems. I guess somebody thought that it's because of the additional cost of the previous solutions the homebrew did not take off.
At the time, I remember wondering if being acquired by Sony proper would start to move that in the wrong direction, but, if anything, they've gotten better: they open-sourced their sensor HAL, they have official AOSP projects for several devices (including the Xperia S which was the first attempt at a non-Nexus AOSP phone) and now trying to open the SmartWatch.
You can feel free to judge these people for the actions of a different department of a company they weren't even part of at the time. I prefer to consider things case-by-case.
Which is cool, but the chip names could have been found by the people who'd already done teardowns and the pinouts could be found by buzzing one out (possibly sacrificially by removing chips.)
The chip datasheets they link were all all already publically available, the Cypress touch sensor one is even a link to alldatasheet.com(!)
Probably the biggest letdown is the Bluetooth/FM chip made by Sony, arguably the most useful and most complex device aside from the MCU. That link is to Sony's marketing specs page with a block diagram and not much technical info that I can see. I can't find any information about the chip made available to the public by Sony.
Ironically enough there is a longer 6 page Sony datasheet leaked on datasheet sites, but even this doesn't have pinouts or begin to explain how the SPI interface to Bluetooth/FM functionality actually works.
I think it's good that a major company like Sony released even this small amount of information, although it's worth noting that reverse engineers have found more information on similar products acting entirely by themselves (take for instance the PS3 Move controller: http://eissq.com/ps3_move/ )
On the other hand I think it's very bad that most people will glance at this and see Sony "open sourcing" something when they appear to be open sourcing nearly nothing. The RTOS they used is probably proprietary property of a third party so they can't open source that, but they could release their application source code for the smartwatch - allowing people to see how they communicate with the Bluetooth/FM chip, for instance. That kind of source could be ported to an open source RTOS.
The optimist in me hopes that detailed technical information will be forthcoming over time, but the pessimist in me thinks this is the feel-good last gasp of an end-of-life product. :/
"The article was just a first step towards opening up the SmartWatch, more details will follow as the project progress."
So maybe it's not the last gasp...
Feels totally half-assed to me, after reading this. Either I want people to hack & play and support them with it or I don't. How can you damage the hardware of this simple device with a hacked Android? What do these lawyers think? That someone hacks a version of Android that makes the SmartWatch go up in smoke and every kid that has bought one and got a scratch on their glass will load that up so they can claim warranty on their device? Seriously?