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Ask HN: How to detect if app is pirated?

12 points by buggy_code ↗ HN
I'm building a MMORPG for the iPhone.

The iPhone app connects to server to join the world. Between the app & the server, I can't figure out how to detect if the particular instance of the app is legit or if it's pirated. Is there a way to do this?

I know that I can grab the UUID off the phone ... but unless apple sends me a list of every UUID that purchased my app, I see no way to check for this.

Thanks!

22 comments

[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 55.3 ms ] thread
mcav
Don't worry about it.

The iPhone app store has enough DRM to move piracy below your radar. Casual users won't pirate your app; the few who might go to that effort aren't worth your time. If your app was available via direct download, an anti-piracy scheme might be useful, but for app store applications you needn't worry. Spend your time making other improvements to your app that will attract more players.

HalcyonMuse
Er, isn't this a valid concern? I don't own an iPhone, so I don't REALLY know what I'm talking about here, but as a college student, I know quite a few people with iPhones who pirate ALL of their applications. I get the impression that they have pretty much the same applications as people paying for them.
mcav
Piracy exists, sure. But I would suggest that iPhone developers not worry about it. Anti-piracy measures for iPhone applications would require time and energy invested that would arguably be better spent improving the software.

Users who pirate applications aren't necessarily lost customers; they might not have purchased it legally even if they couldn't pirate it.

alex_c
For an MMORPG, that IS a valid concern though. Pirated copies take up server resources and increase costs. Piracy also makes it more difficult to enforce rules - if everyone has to pay, closing a misbehaving account is feasible, but if a significant percentage of the userbase pirates it, then they can just make any number of free accounts, and degrade the experience for paying users.
alex_c
The iPhone app store has enough DRM to move piracy below your radar.

Do you have numbers for that? Anecdotal evidence (forum posts from developers, statistics provided by companies hawking anti-piracy solutions) suggest that piracy is actually a significant percentage of all app installs.

I'm not entering into a debate about spending time fighting piracy versus spending time adding new features. I'm just curious about your assertion that piracy of app store applications is negligible. Is it based on specific experiences, or gut feeling?

mcav
Gut feeling.
thorax
Installous/Crackulous/etc seem like they're pretty popular. I know semi-casual users using them.
jlefo7p6
Hand the software out for free and charge for user accounts on the server.

This turns the problem into one of "How do I prevent account piracy?", which is hopefully not dependent on characteristics of the iPhone.

edit: I'm not sure what sort of kickback Apple would like in this case. Be sure to check that out first.

jonknee
That could be accomplished in the upcoming 3.0 SDK which supports subscriptions.
amitm
It cannot be with 3.0. Subscriptions and one time charges are only supported for apps that initially cost money. You could get away with charging .99 cents for it initially and then charging a subscription.
[deleted]
(comment deleted)
jlefo7p6
You'd have the make the subscription cheaper to offset the app's cost, so you'd still be losing money on piracy. Plus, making the end user pay twice sounds annoying.

It sounds like Apple set it up this way to make sure they are getting a piece of all the money coming through the iPhone. I won't begrudge them that, but I feel for the developers.

nolanbrown23
We check for pirated apps in our iphone analytics library (we haven't released yet) and provide some tools to combat it. One of the ways we do it is using this code:

   NSDictionary *info = [bundle infoDictionary];
   if ([info objectForKey: @"SignerIdentity"] != nil)
   {
     //app is pirated
   }
amitm
I would agree with the don't worry about it comment. I make a MMORPG for the iPhone called Epic Pet Wars. Our paid versions are getting pirated at a rate of about 2:1, but I strongly believe that these users would not pay for the app anyway.

We are making enough money with the pirates and we have other ways to monetize these users like direct payments on our sit. Also, the pirates seem to be heavily active on the game.

barry-cotter
Sorry if I'm being obtuse but are you making a profit from the average pirate? If you are making money despite them i'd imagine you'd be less sanguine, but if you're making money even from the pirates wouldn't it be in your long term interest to switch to free distribution to grow your user base much, much faster? Obviously the timing is an issue particularly if it'd leave you without much cushion, but shouldn't it be part of your strategy, because otherwise someone else will get there first in that niche and have the fast growth that could otherwise be yours (not necessarily sustainable but fast)
amitm
We have a free distribution model. We give away the application and charge (our app is #22 in top free apps) We monetize through character unlocks and virtual goods using paid versions in the app store. These versions are being pirated quite a bit, but yes we are making good money despite of it so we dont mind.
[dead] Warhammer145
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