Ask HN: Most comfortable keyboard?

12 points by quantumpotato_ ↗ HN
I use Microsoft Ergonomic 4000. They keys take a lot to press, so I'm considering a mechanical keyboard like a rat7.

However, I feel the layout of most keyboards (rectangular) isn't adapted to a natural form of my hands (more open, spread away from the torso instead of closed in).

What's the best keyboard for long-term programming?

21 comments

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I'm a fan of the Kinesis contoured keyboards, which I've been using for 15 years now.

The two major keyboard fora, which you can use to help research and discuss what would suit you, are http://deskthority.net/ and http://geekhack.org/

I second the Kinesis - although, I could never get into the foot pedals.
I have one of the foot pedals, and I use it sometimes, but mostly to shock my coworkers. I never really got into the hang of using it in my day to day life.
It depends. I've used a lot in the ~20 years or so I've been programming; and I've come over the last decade or so to rely on the Kinesis Advantage. The big reason I chose it when I did is because it doesn't force your wrists into a positive angle, which always causes me pain.

I used to use a Model M or one of its derivatives; I also spent a lot of time on the old Sun keyboards. I never found the key action to be as important to my continued health as the physical design; I also don't use a custom layout. I'm happy with my choices, although occasionally I try something new.

http://ergodox.org/ you can get more info at http://deskthority.net/workshop-f7/split-ergonomic-keyboard-... or geekhack.org/index.php?topic=22780.0;nowap

It's open source, but I purchased my own DIY kit a few months ago from massdrop.com

I second this, and I would third this if possible; I obtained mine through massdrop as well.

Having suffered from debilitating RSI at one point that took several months to even moderately recover from, an ergonomically sound keyboard (along with other habits) is a necessary step for satisfying best practices and not having to change careers as a result.

RSI is an extremely annoying and potentially career ending injury that is not resolvable fully through surgery, so doing everything possible to avoid ever having that is very smart.

If you ever have it you will wish you went with the ounce of prevention rather than the pound of cure route.

At one point the injury was so bad that I could not even read a book or touch a surface without searing pain; any force on my hands was agony basically and empathizing with people who have physical disabilities is accessible at a whole new level.

An unfortunate side effect of RSI/CTS is that while you appear perfectly healthy to external observers you are incapable of actually doing the same things a healthy individual can without worsening the injury and prolonging recovery in addition to the searing pain.

So be prepared for strange looks in some social situations from those unaware of your ailment.

Anyways, the ErgoDox keyboard is currently the state of the art if ergonomics is being maximized for, all other keyboards are either completely incompetently designed and effectively not designed for human beings or suffer from more flaws than the ErgoDox does.

Researching ergonomic keyboards and ways to help recover from my injury as well as avoiding having the same thing happen again revealed that most keyboards had show stopping design flaws inherited from typewriters or as a result of maximizing for cost and ease of manufacturing rather than quality and usability.

As someone who wants to avoid re-injuring myself, uses a keyboard heavily, and uses emacs and vim as much as possible I choose what keyboard to use based on these qualities:

1) Modifier keys (shift, alt, control, and in my case option fn as well as another key to act as a fifth modifier so that I have hyper and super keys in emacs) must be accessible by the strongest digit humans have: the thumb.

Designing modifier keys such that they are solely accessed by the pinky while the other fingers remain on the home row, the least durable digit, is utterly bereft of intelligence.

The Kinesis Advantage and the ErgoDox satisfy this property.

2) Modifier keys must have a mirrored layout such that they exist in the same location on both sides of the keyboard.

The ErgoDox* and Kinesis advantage satisfy this property as well as the Truly Ergonomic.

The Truly Ergonomic does not feature an island for thumb keys though.

* Note that the ErgoDox is the only one that satisfies this if the user needs more than three modifier keys (alt, shift, ctrl).

3) When the hands are on the home row, the entire hand and forearm must be aligned perpendicular to the keys,* deviating from this is main contributor to RSI and why in part laptop keyboards are not comfortable to use for long periods of time.

Split keyboard designs are the best design for satisfying this requirement for as many users' body types as possible as the different halves can be arranged the appropriate width apart.

The split keyboard design is rarely found due to manufacturing complexity as well as increased component cost.

That requirement is why most keyboards can be immediately crossed for not being designed for humans.

The ErgoDox satisfies this property; as the degree of deviation from perpendicular alignment the worse the keyboard is to use in practice.

* Note that in the case of the fingers their differing lengths may be taken account for via a sunken key design which the Kinesis Advantage utilized where the fingers curl inward comfortably

Ideally, the keyboard design would also be such that it is trivially disassembled for regular maintenance, such as removing the grime that develops over time from using the device, however ...

I liked the MS Ergo but, due to an office change, needed a wireless keyboard. I switched to the Logitech wireless keyboard and have absolutely hated it. The keys are too small and I make so many mistakes while coding, and that's after a year with it. Whatever you buy, check the size against the MSFT keyboard so that you don't do what I did: get stuck with a keyboard that's too small for you.
For me, not layout but key force and travel became problems. I've ended up with a Kensington keyboard... Ci73 that has a "low profile" and "laptop-type" keys/keyswitches. Much better...

The 73 is wired. They also make a wireless model; however, wireless keyboards have had security issues, particularly at the time I settled on the Kensington, and so I avoided wireless.

I have it adjusted to the "right height" behind a 3M gel wristpad model that, unfortunately, is no longer made.

Amongst the choices in this category, note that IBM and now Lenovo make a ThinkPad style external keyboard. The last I checked, there were two revisions. I think the former had an integrated trackpad while the latter did not. Opinions varied as to which was better.

YMMV. But for some, it may be worth considering key action and travel, particularly if you've ever found yourself favoring a laptop keyboard (perhaps before so many of them went "chiclet") over a desktop/external keyboard.

work: Kinesis Advantage home: IBM Model M (from my first computer)

the kinesis advantage has been a huge improvement for my wrists and elbows. the large space between where my hands are positioned has probably been the greatest factor.

I have a Noppoo Choc Mini. It's on the quieter side of mechanical keyboards (Cherry Reds). It's more of a typing/gaming keyboard, but I can still type 110+ WPM consistently and without pain. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091QOCNA/ref=wms_ohs_prod...

If you're looking to reduce RSI/wrist pain, I found that far more important than a keyboard is your posture and arm position. More or less: http://www.egodevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/4.j... (I would actually have my monitor a tad higher than in that picture)

Having mechanical switches is a mandatory keyboard feature for me (and I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find others who agree)

If you want to go all out get one of these http://www.trulyergonomic.com/ (ergonomic, kinda different keyboard layout, mechanical switches). There'd be a definite learning curve.

I've been a fan of the Kinesis Freestyle keyboards for years http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/freestyle2.htm.

They're a little more expensive than most, but totally worth the price. I never could get used to the MS Ergo keyboards, same experience, the keys take too much effort. Bonus, all of my wrist pain as disappeared since switching to the Freestyle.

I had a coworker swear by the Das Keyboard. Very pricey but was nice on the fingers and reduce typing noise. I have had this on my list of things to buy. I use a cheap HP SK-2880 keyboard meow but it is pretty comfortable.

http://www.daskeyboard.com/model-s-ultimate/

I actually prefer the feel of laptop style keys so the apple keyboards get my vote. I find the low travel and light weight touch is easier on RSI.
A mechanical one, for sure. Then, what it would matter it's the type of the switches. I use black ones, because I like gaming and it's what its for but i code a lot with it. It depends on your taste.

Probably the most comfortable but expensive ones are the Topre's capacitive switches, used on Happy Hacking keyboards, they're a mix of best quality, comfort and healthy keyboards you can acquire.

For coding, writing, experts recommend blue or brown switches, but in the end, it is our own taste what it will matter.