This. He claimed vociferously that he wasn't depressed, and I suspect that he honestly believed he wasn't, but the signs in his writing are too strong to simply ignore.
Then again, there are also signs of a very strong narcissistic streak, so perhaps that has something to do with it.
The title actually understates the situation; from what I have read so far, Martin committed suicide largely because he wanted to be able to leave this website for posterity.
There are secondary reasons also like not wanting to watch himself decline mentally, but his primary motivation for killing himself seems to be that he wants to leave this extensive and elaborate suicide note.
I think this is more of a commentary on end-of-life issues, the desire for a "legacy," and the mind of an extremely rational/analytical person, as opposed to depression or the things that usually motivate suicide.
"You will rarely get any details for why a person committed suicide, but that won't be the case with me! In fact, this may be the most detailed example of a suicide letter in history - something to be entered into the Guinness Book of Records! My hope is that it is."
EDIT: Sheesh, I even included weakening disclaimers: "from what I have read so far," and "seems." Hardly a "pronouncement." I welcome your contrary opinion but not the chastisement that comes with it. My comment certainly wasn't intending to judge or criticize this man, or call his concerns "illegitimate." I was meaning to say that his concerns are more associated with end-of-life (legacy, decline, etc); he specifically talks about how most of the "normal" reasons for committing suicide don't apply to him.
As you said, you've only partially read it. I think it's a bit premature to pronounce that the website is the primary reason and all else is secondary.
Clearly none of us will ever truly understand, but this certainly struck me:
>I began seeing the problems that come with aging some time ago. I was sick of leaving the garage door open overnight. I was sick of forgetting to zip up when I put on my pants. I was sick of forgetting the names of my best friends. I was sick of going downstairs and having no idea why. I was sick of watching a movie, going to my account on IMDB to type up a review and realizing I've already seen it and, worse, already written a review! I was sick of having to dig through the trash to find an envelope that was sent to me so I could remember my own address - especially since I lived in the same place for the last nine years!
>And, here’s the clincher… it’s only going to get worse!
>I didn’t want to die alone. I didn’t want to die of old age. I didn’t want to die after years of unproductivity. I didn’t want to die having my chin and my butt wiped by someone who might forget which cloth they used for which. I didn’t want to die of a stroke or cancer or heart attack or Alzheimer’s. I decided I was gettin’ out while the gettin’ was good and while I could still produce this website! I’ve been to the penthouse. It may only be a 10-story building, but I refuse to ride the elevator down to the basement! Nope, I'm going out on top. The rest of you can go out whenever you want.
The meticulous planning and website are certainly symptoms of a certain kind of obsession, but he does outline what some might consider to be not wholly illegitimate concerns...
Why is this here? A person with a mental illness created a shrine to that mental illness. Even if we meant for it to be public, his healthier agencies probably wouldn't have. It's disrespectful, even cruel to upvote this, gawk at it, muse about it.
It's heartbreaking and it isn't news.
Edit: thankfully this thread is closed. The level of ignorance in this thread already, and the indifference to the consequences of glorifying suicide, is really troubling. I hope no one in a vulnerable position reads this and puts stock in his, or our, nonsense.
Everything, from the premise to the details. The grandiosity and self-obsession and narcissism, the delusions about his own motives (which were clearly emotional and painful rather than pseudo-philosophical). Even if you take his argument at face value he is killing himself in response to an ailment that he does not have. His using controversially justified ideas of suicide as a cover for self rage.
Edit: I was trying to dissuade people from promoting suicide as an impressively rational response to reaching an age many people consider to be the best years of life. He killed himself, lied to himself about why, and then wrote and painstakingly edited (20 times at least, he says) an massive, elaborate shrine to himself and his own sad death. Yeah, I guess those are both equally narcissistic.
Writing his own biography is no more or less narcissistic than your thinking anyone on the internet cares about your opinion on his writing his biography.
Lots of people have personal web sites of their life's accomplishments, they call them "portfolios". Lots of people have an online account of their day-to-day activities, they call them "blogs", "tweets", and "status updates".
What Martin Manley has done here is no more or less "self-obsessed" than what you and I do every single day, he only presents it in a manner slightly askew to that with which we are accustomed.
I don't want to say it is but does it strike you as normal?
If you take the whole thing at face value you might say it's rational and logical but without knowing the guy and knowing what he's not said, or what he's distorted (or not), it's impossible to say whether what's true and whether it stacks up. People, even those with mental illness, are often pretty good at creating a logically consistent view of things and building a supporting rationale.
But you can take another view - he's smart, at least personable enough to have attracted two wives, has friends and interests, a reasonable level of success and so on and yet has decided while he's still clearly mentally and physically capable, to end his life.
And his justification is because he can, because it's a bit neat and so he can leave this website as some sort of legacy.
I'm not saying that's a sign of mental illness, but it doesn't sit completely right with me either.
Also without being heartless, curious to know if there's any verification of his death (or existence) anywhere. I'm not saying it's a hoax but if someone told me in a couple of days it was I wouldn't be stunned.
I don't find it heartbreaking, but it is somewhat fascinating.
While it's understandable to call it a mental illness at a young age, Martin is 60 and well past his prime and is right in what he's saying.
What value does he really have if he feels "done"? Who are we to say he made a wrong decision? I might feel the same way at 60 or 70, not that I'll be a making a website about it, but then I'm not writing books either.
Which isn't even half the age of the oldest person to ever live. I think quality of life at 60 varies a lot person to person. Of course your physical capabilities will have peaked, but that doesn't at all imply your ability to enjoy life has. Heck, I was reading a 100-year old recently completed a marathon, which is more than most my age (23) are capable of doing. I'm sure there are plenty of people who had a miserable youth but had very enjoyable years toward the end of their life.
I agree with all of your points, but despite writing that he has no physical health issues, it seems he was beginning to experience a pretty significant mental decline:
>I was sick of having to dig through the trash to find an envelope that was sent to me so I could remember my own address - especially since I lived in the same place for the last nine years!
He's right because he 'feels "done?"' He feels done because he is paranoid and lonely and feels bad about himself, because he seems to have profound psychological pain. Glorifying his manic, grandiose justifications is a terrible idea, even if horror is sometimes fascinating.
He felt done because he was using cliches about aging to rage at himself. There is no "prime" after which the value of your life declines. If your conception of yourself is that you only deserve to live insofar as you can perform as a young person would, you aren't admirably rational, you're just self-loathing.
>> Copyright 2013 Martin Manley Life and Death. All rights reserved.
EDIT - He should have patented this technique (suicide note on website), to prevent others from performing a similar stunt. While I feel sad for him for taking his own life, I am angry for him making his suicide sound so glamorous.
For those who understand English, the title should be: "Man turns 60, commits suicide and leaves a website as suicide note." Come on, let's try to get those nouns and verbs to agree -- or at least be consistent with the disagreement!
"3) I had no financial problems. I sold my house which was completely paid for in 1998. The same year I bought $30,000 in 1/10 ounce gold coins and pre 1965 silver coins. Gold was $300/ounce when I bought it and silver was $4/ounce. Gold went up to $1,700 and Silver to $44 making my stash worth over $200,000.
Suicide at the right time is the best death, pity that religion has taught us to see suicide as a coward act.
You can choose suffering, physical degradation, mental declination, assisted feeding and cleaning, or you can choose death at your own pace, in a nice hotel with a view over the sunset after a delicious meal and some final words with your family and your conscience.
We should learn the art of death for we will all face it.
34 comments
[ 0.23 ms ] story [ 76.8 ms ] threadthat explains it to me
Then again, there are also signs of a very strong narcissistic streak, so perhaps that has something to do with it.
BTW the "top 0.1%" figure translates to those with IQs at or above about 146, assuming the usual suspects, i.e. mean 100, sigma 15.
My condolences to anyone tied to this person though.
There are secondary reasons also like not wanting to watch himself decline mentally, but his primary motivation for killing himself seems to be that he wants to leave this extensive and elaborate suicide note.
I think this is more of a commentary on end-of-life issues, the desire for a "legacy," and the mind of an extremely rational/analytical person, as opposed to depression or the things that usually motivate suicide.
"You will rarely get any details for why a person committed suicide, but that won't be the case with me! In fact, this may be the most detailed example of a suicide letter in history - something to be entered into the Guinness Book of Records! My hope is that it is."
EDIT: Sheesh, I even included weakening disclaimers: "from what I have read so far," and "seems." Hardly a "pronouncement." I welcome your contrary opinion but not the chastisement that comes with it. My comment certainly wasn't intending to judge or criticize this man, or call his concerns "illegitimate." I was meaning to say that his concerns are more associated with end-of-life (legacy, decline, etc); he specifically talks about how most of the "normal" reasons for committing suicide don't apply to him.
Clearly none of us will ever truly understand, but this certainly struck me:
>I began seeing the problems that come with aging some time ago. I was sick of leaving the garage door open overnight. I was sick of forgetting to zip up when I put on my pants. I was sick of forgetting the names of my best friends. I was sick of going downstairs and having no idea why. I was sick of watching a movie, going to my account on IMDB to type up a review and realizing I've already seen it and, worse, already written a review! I was sick of having to dig through the trash to find an envelope that was sent to me so I could remember my own address - especially since I lived in the same place for the last nine years!
>And, here’s the clincher… it’s only going to get worse!
>I didn’t want to die alone. I didn’t want to die of old age. I didn’t want to die after years of unproductivity. I didn’t want to die having my chin and my butt wiped by someone who might forget which cloth they used for which. I didn’t want to die of a stroke or cancer or heart attack or Alzheimer’s. I decided I was gettin’ out while the gettin’ was good and while I could still produce this website! I’ve been to the penthouse. It may only be a 10-story building, but I refuse to ride the elevator down to the basement! Nope, I'm going out on top. The rest of you can go out whenever you want.
The meticulous planning and website are certainly symptoms of a certain kind of obsession, but he does outline what some might consider to be not wholly illegitimate concerns...
It's heartbreaking and it isn't news.
Edit: thankfully this thread is closed. The level of ignorance in this thread already, and the indifference to the consequences of glorifying suicide, is really troubling. I hope no one in a vulnerable position reads this and puts stock in his, or our, nonsense.
Edit: I was trying to dissuade people from promoting suicide as an impressively rational response to reaching an age many people consider to be the best years of life. He killed himself, lied to himself about why, and then wrote and painstakingly edited (20 times at least, he says) an massive, elaborate shrine to himself and his own sad death. Yeah, I guess those are both equally narcissistic.
Lots of people have personal web sites of their life's accomplishments, they call them "portfolios". Lots of people have an online account of their day-to-day activities, they call them "blogs", "tweets", and "status updates".
What Martin Manley has done here is no more or less "self-obsessed" than what you and I do every single day, he only presents it in a manner slightly askew to that with which we are accustomed.
If you take the whole thing at face value you might say it's rational and logical but without knowing the guy and knowing what he's not said, or what he's distorted (or not), it's impossible to say whether what's true and whether it stacks up. People, even those with mental illness, are often pretty good at creating a logically consistent view of things and building a supporting rationale.
But you can take another view - he's smart, at least personable enough to have attracted two wives, has friends and interests, a reasonable level of success and so on and yet has decided while he's still clearly mentally and physically capable, to end his life.
And his justification is because he can, because it's a bit neat and so he can leave this website as some sort of legacy.
I'm not saying that's a sign of mental illness, but it doesn't sit completely right with me either.
Also without being heartless, curious to know if there's any verification of his death (or existence) anywhere. I'm not saying it's a hoax but if someone told me in a couple of days it was I wouldn't be stunned.
Which isn't even half the age of the oldest person to ever live. I think quality of life at 60 varies a lot person to person. Of course your physical capabilities will have peaked, but that doesn't at all imply your ability to enjoy life has. Heck, I was reading a 100-year old recently completed a marathon, which is more than most my age (23) are capable of doing. I'm sure there are plenty of people who had a miserable youth but had very enjoyable years toward the end of their life.
>I was sick of having to dig through the trash to find an envelope that was sent to me so I could remember my own address - especially since I lived in the same place for the last nine years!
He felt done because he was using cliches about aging to rage at himself. There is no "prime" after which the value of your life declines. If your conception of yourself is that you only deserve to live insofar as you can perform as a young person would, you aren't admirably rational, you're just self-loathing.
EDIT - He should have patented this technique (suicide note on website), to prevent others from performing a similar stunt. While I feel sad for him for taking his own life, I am angry for him making his suicide sound so glamorous.
38.800542, -94.687884"
The Lat/Lon where it's buried?
You can choose suffering, physical degradation, mental declination, assisted feeding and cleaning, or you can choose death at your own pace, in a nice hotel with a view over the sunset after a delicious meal and some final words with your family and your conscience.
We should learn the art of death for we will all face it.
http://www.zeroshare.info/suicide_preface