Hopefully this thread won't degenerate into anti-transgender comments like so many others today. Obviously Manning has needed mental health treatment for quite some time. Hopefully he can get what he needs while in prison. It's just too bad that prison is where he has to go to get help.
He acted out while in the Army, obviously behaving in a way that showed his superiors that he needed help, yet they did nothing. He was even busted back down to PFC from SPC. Yet, they put him back on the job.
On top of that, he was living in the "don't ask don't tell" world of the military at the time, risking discharge for admitting that he was gay.
Well, apparently Manning gives a fuck. Who has also taken on the name Chelsea now.
>I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility).
I don't see how the taxpayers should pay for this. One of the reasons the comments are so negative is because it feels like a smokescreen and/or a last attempt at sympathy.
I don't care if he wants to become a girl, but he should wait until his/her time is served.
I wonder if military prisons are monitored/protected any better than civilian prisons when it comes to that 'other' stuff.
Manning preferred to be female well before the leaks or the trial. Also, the Army/taxpayers are paying for Manning's housing, food, clothes, and therapy even outside of prison.
Typically, they would not provide hormone therapy because
a) it is not essential for the job (they pull teeth instead of fix them for crying out loud)
b) this is typically something that would lead to a medical discharge and in some cases, dishonorable discharge because it wasn't listed in the health questionnaire at time of application.
Sorry, I got my articles confused. According to http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/08/22/convict... Leavenworth provides psychiatric therapy but not hormone therapy. I'm not sure where Manning is hoping to get it, but it's not clear that it's going to be taxpayer-funded.
Ooh, the magic words 'taxpayer funded' how about we also refuse to 'taxpayer fund' insulin for diabetic service members, or anti depressants for soldiers suffering from PTSD? Not gonna supply Lexapro on my dime!
Probably, and in either case, my argument would be that Manning no longer receives benefits provided by the Army (as a result of his sentence) and thus would not qualify for Tricare.
My argument against this is that I believe prisons should only be held responsible for keeping people safe, sane, and secure. If it is deemed that HRT is necessary for keeping him sane, then I might change my stance.
Nonsense. His point of view is that a women is not what he wants to become, but what he is. He just wants to be recognized as one.
Also, I don't really see where there is spending involved. Even if there were, the amount would be insignificant to even care about. There is much more waste elsewhere in the system.
Last but not least, this guy shouldn't even be serving the sentence he is.
*Feel free to replace girl with another appropriate feminine noun, I know some people consider it diminutive but it's probably the closest alternative to guy I can think of right this moment.
That's not what I'm arguing against, I'm stating that hormone therapy should not be paid for by the military.
That said, if he wants to be recognized as a woman, that means he wants to be placed in prison with other women, which is clearly an issue. IMO the military has no choice but to place him in a male facility and call him whatever he wants to be called.
You are aware, aren't you, that the military already pays for all sorts of prescription drugs for service members? What difference is there between estradiol/spironolactone on the one hand, and every other prescription drug that is paid for off post with Tricare or filled at an on post hospital? Except your revulsion towards transsexuality of course.
You're reading into it and you're overstepping. I have no such revulsion.
I was in the military, so I'm quite aware of the programs they offer. My point, if you'll read it, is that Manning no longer qualifies for those benefits, and that said benefits should not be offered by the prison system.
> I don't see how the taxpayers should pay for this [...] I don't care if he wants to become a girl, but he should wait until his/her time is served.
Gender identity disorder / gender dysphoria is a genuine medical condition classified in the DSM (IV and V). For many sufferers it is not a matter of simple "wanting" to change their gender.
If you accept that gender dysphoria is a medical condition (as most in the medical and mental health professions have), then the question becomes "should prisoners receive treatment for it?"
I would argue that yes, they should. But I live in a country with socialised medicine, where healthcare is provided to all free of charge (including treatment for gender dysphoria). In my mind, being imprisoned deprives you of liberty, but not the right to free healthcare. I imagine many people in America would feel differently - "why", they might say, "should a prisoner get treated for free when I can't afford my own medical bills?".
That said, it's not totally clear to me that taxpayers would be paying for Chelsea Manning's treatment? I couldn't find any reference to it in her letter, merely that she hopes to begin hormone treatment shortly.
The message(s) are the point. Misgendering people isn't nice, especially after someone has specifically laid out how they wish to be addressed. But yes, I will conceed I have been a little spammy and probably could have gone about it with less.
A little bit of tact would have been nice also. Most people in our society are still not used to referring to trans people. I highly doubt anyone here is misgendering on purpose - even people who are aware of the underlying issues will still slip up sometimes, because use of gendered pronouns is reflexive.
Hell, I have a trans friend where I still struggle with correct pronoun usage. I've known her for a long time, and it takes a lot of conscious effort to override the reflex sometimes. We try, we're not perfect, so stop browbeating us about it.
Doing this repeatedly is likely to get you automatically hellbanned. A comment on this at the root level will probably get enough upvotes to bring it near the top.
Maybe she feared that this announcement could negatively affect her lawsuit if published before the sentencing.
Maybe she also feels, that it is necessary to inform the public in order to make sure, that she gets the medical treatment.
The defense released that photo during his (her) trial, and used his (her) gender identity issues as part of their case during his (her) trial. I don't think that this is really breaking news.
Lamo befriended Manning during a depressive period caused by gender confusion. Lamo played on Manning's vulnerable state to get information about the leaks. That's why it's relevant.
Heads up everyone using "him" or "him (her)" (and permutations thereof), the correct terminology is just "her", because she is a woman. This isn't rocket science.
Another recent story about a retired US Navy Seal that went from Chris to Kristin, tells a similar story, but without the trial elements to muddy the waters:
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[ 3121 ms ] story [ 1193 ms ] threadWhy do you say that? Before now, he[she] lived a life, with plenty of opportunities to get help, or help him[her]self.
On top of that, he was living in the "don't ask don't tell" world of the military at the time, risking discharge for admitting that he was gay.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_Manning#Deployment_to_...
>I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility).
I don't care if he wants to become a girl, but he should wait until his/her time is served.
I wonder if military prisons are monitored/protected any better than civilian prisons when it comes to that 'other' stuff.
a) it is not essential for the job (they pull teeth instead of fix them for crying out loud) b) this is typically something that would lead to a medical discharge and in some cases, dishonorable discharge because it wasn't listed in the health questionnaire at time of application.
My argument against this is that I believe prisons should only be held responsible for keeping people safe, sane, and secure. If it is deemed that HRT is necessary for keeping him sane, then I might change my stance.
I find these (spammy) posts annoying also, but what does his/her orientation have to do with anything?
Also, I don't really see where there is spending involved. Even if there were, the amount would be insignificant to even care about. There is much more waste elsewhere in the system.
Last but not least, this guy shouldn't even be serving the sentence he is.
*Feel free to replace girl with another appropriate feminine noun, I know some people consider it diminutive but it's probably the closest alternative to guy I can think of right this moment.
That said, if he wants to be recognized as a woman, that means he wants to be placed in prison with other women, which is clearly an issue. IMO the military has no choice but to place him in a male facility and call him whatever he wants to be called.
I was in the military, so I'm quite aware of the programs they offer. My point, if you'll read it, is that Manning no longer qualifies for those benefits, and that said benefits should not be offered by the prison system.
Gender identity disorder / gender dysphoria is a genuine medical condition classified in the DSM (IV and V). For many sufferers it is not a matter of simple "wanting" to change their gender.
If you accept that gender dysphoria is a medical condition (as most in the medical and mental health professions have), then the question becomes "should prisoners receive treatment for it?"
I would argue that yes, they should. But I live in a country with socialised medicine, where healthcare is provided to all free of charge (including treatment for gender dysphoria). In my mind, being imprisoned deprives you of liberty, but not the right to free healthcare. I imagine many people in America would feel differently - "why", they might say, "should a prisoner get treated for free when I can't afford my own medical bills?".
That said, it's not totally clear to me that taxpayers would be paying for Chelsea Manning's treatment? I couldn't find any reference to it in her letter, merely that she hopes to begin hormone treatment shortly.
Hell, I have a trans friend where I still struggle with correct pronoun usage. I've known her for a long time, and it takes a lot of conscious effort to override the reflex sometimes. We try, we're not perfect, so stop browbeating us about it.
It's a new story, and gender dysphoria is a topic that I think is well worth discussing.
This is tabloid material.
It's hacker news, not the comments section of deviantart.
- Manning: Transgendered
- Snowden: ???
If something comes out about snowden that would offend the morality police, I'm calling propaganda conspiracy on this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23464947