I did not know this until someone explained it to me. It was before this post, but long after my teens were over. Peoples general attitude to sex and relationships can only come from their life experiences, right? My parents were in a loveless marriage and divorced early in my life, so my guide to healthy relationships was tv, movies and porn.
i liked the purpose of the whole story and concern ... movies portray most impractical things of life ... they take you to Lala-Land which doesn't exist .... they sell dreams - when you realized that your love life is nothing like hero and heroine in the movies then you're heartbroken and then life goes down the spiral ... especially in Bollywood movies - they take your emotions to the highest point with no real life conflict ... dancing in the rain and/or Switzerland scenic beauty is not love ... in real life, the dance starts with the conflicts and arguments and debates for every small thing which you just cant figure out how to resolve because in your head you're still that hero/heroine looking for that ever sacrificing spouse :(
Good for you! Same here. 12 years in, 3 children and we've not been apart from each other for more than a couple of hours in the last few years (and that was due to surgical appointments only)
I can't believe no one has quoted PG's rules already. How dare you assume love is not something hackers are interested in.
Funny thing: I read it, then went to the comments and your statement never crossed my mind until I read it. Once I read "why is this on HN" I immediately agreed with you. I can't imagine why this is here. Its not close in any way to topics normally discussed here.
*I did see an interesting comment on brain chemicals changing in a relationship overtime, but they didn't explain much.
Amount of Dopamine released in your brain will peak after about 2 years of being with a new partner, at which point it's replaced by oxytocin. It's evolutionary: you change from being the lusty lovers to the providers (kids, job, etc). This man is describing this process exactly.
"After two months of dating, we were engaged. Three months after that, we were married."
WTF ?
I see this pattern again and again. We can also often add children to the whole picture. It's like a big red warning : immature people and ego to action.
And yet you see now that they have a happy, love filled marriage right now based on serving and loving each other before themselves. I don't think many people are in a position to criticize that.
FYIW my wife and I got engaged after 2.5 months, married after 4.5 total. We definitely had the lovey dovey feelings but knew going into this that the important thing over the long term was to love each other with our actions. We have a wonderful marriage now that is so much richer and our connection so much more tangible than when we were dating. It blows away any prior relationship I had, including many year dating relationships.
Well, getting married after 5 months is never a good idea. Of course you have the fire for the first few months or even years - that's the excitement of a new relationship with somebody you feel is awesome, but you don't even know them properly yet, so how can you know if it will last beyond that. Whenever I hear someone got married after only a few months, I always think "cue the divorce in a couple of years" and more often than not, I've been, unfortunately, right...
I'm glad this guy figured it out and hope he can fix things for himself.
From Disney movies to my favorite shows like “The Office” to practically every pop song released, love is constantly sold as an emotion we have before we’re married. An emotion that, once had, somehow magically stays within a marriage forever.
I agree. However I think there is another cause that breaks many relationships: the illusion that happiness in found in the perfection of everything: a perfect sex life, a partner with a perfect body, the stellar job, a sports car, etc. The grass is always greener on the other side.
Very often, happiness can be found in the here and now. Learn to enjoy the small things.
The emotion is sold because the emotion exists. They wouldn't be able to sell it if it didn't.
The problem is that not everyone can really have that, or optimize for those sorts of feelings in their relationship with their partners.
It's like watching Mad Men and thinking you could live like that.
You have a brain and that brain has been conditioned over the years. What brings you happiness, what brings you joy, is not really up to you. The ability you have to give someone else the experience they need to feel happiness and joy, is not up to you.
So you can't really choose what sort of relationship you want to have. You can't have a Jim and Pam relationship because you're not Jim and very few women are Pam.
Instead you can have a relationship that suits your needs. If you do manage to find one, treasure it because it's absolutely special. Don't think it has to look like anything, because it doesn't. It doesn't have to be mundane service. That was something the author and his SO needed.
> The emotion is sold because the emotion exists. They wouldn't be able to sell it if it didn't.
Very true.
> What brings you happiness, what brings you joy, is not really up to you.
Not quite so true, because of this:
> Don't think it has to look like anything, because it doesn't.
In general, people who are "sold" aren't going to be as happy as people who are capable of identifying their needs for themselves. In the case where a person is used to being sold, it's probably true that they're not as capable of taking this kind of responsibility for themselves.
However this is a skill that can be learned. It's the reason why I'm far happier now as a married man living a very simple life than I was when I was making gobs of money, renting an expensive beach house with a massive pool, and getting drunk all the time while chasing women.
I was sold on an ideal, and it was god awful depressing. As soon as I learned to let that go, things got much, much better.
I think the problem is that people expect the marriage to make them happy, or as it is sold "the other person that comes and all your problem cease to exist" I don't think marriage or anyone else will make you happy in the long term, you have to do the work yourself. A supportive partner is a great thing but not a solution.
I believe many marriages fail because people eventually realize there is no magic wand solution to their own problems.
> I mean, how you can feel that burning love when you’re sitting at the table discussing how to use the last twenty dollars in your bank account?
These are types of issues that, IMO, people need to figure our while they are dating, and not just jump into marriage with someone before knowing how they handle tough, down-on-your-luck, situations. How you handle finances, how you divide chores, the dynamic of a family you want... all these things should be figured out before you pop the question, to make sure you're on the same page with someone before you make to commitment to be with them forever.
It's great this guy found happiness with his wife, but that's quite the gamble he took, not knowing those things before getting married.
I think the bigger issue here is they got married during the honeymoon phase of a relationship.
The first 6-12 month's of a good relationship are fantastic. Its exciting, full of lust and you get that lovey feeling with little effort.
However, as you get to know each other more and more the fire starts to go out. The relationship transforms into a deeper companionship. Where originally being yourself was enough you now need to make a small effort to show you care. Do something to make the other's life easier, or give them a small surprise etc. Instead of 'the fire' always being there you need to generate it.
People who don't make the effort get the feeling they aren't loved or start arguing or wake up one day and find out they are sleeping next to a friend.
I have been in a relationship for 9 years and am happy. There have been bad patches but it just takes a bit of perseverance to work through them.
I get the impression a lot of people expect a relationship stays in the honeymoon period or give up to easily when they hit a bad patch. I think it's a bit sad.
"The grass is greener on the other side." Some day's it is... but I have found if you go to that other side and give it a little while often what you originally had was better all along.
Serving your spouse is one of several ways to show love. There's a book worth reading on the topic. It's old and cheesy, but it's really useful for our 8+ year marriage to stay strong, even after a year-long separation. http://www.5lovelanguages.com/2009/02/acts-of-service/
Warning: The book is written from a Christian perspective.
>How can you feel it when you think it makes perfect sense to put your socks on the floor after you’re done with them, and she has this crazy idea that they need to go in the laundry basket?
I find this article portrays a more traditional style of marriage and love where love is more metaphysical than feeling and how the devotion to the marriage and not the romance made it work.
In German there are two words - perhaps in English too.
It's "verliebt" and "liebe/lieben". The first is in the beginning, the second after some time (although people will tell you they love you "liebe dich" from the beginning, while in reality they are "only" "verliebt"). When dating you are usually "verliebt" I think. Some fall on love with being "verliebt" and then split up again and again.
34 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 68.3 ms ] threadI am not sure educating people about this would lower divorce rate, being told it and living it are two different things.
Except that that is not always true... Only if you let it.
(Edit: "read see")
i'll count myself lucky i guess.
Funny thing: I read it, then went to the comments and your statement never crossed my mind until I read it. Once I read "why is this on HN" I immediately agreed with you. I can't imagine why this is here. Its not close in any way to topics normally discussed here.
*I did see an interesting comment on brain chemicals changing in a relationship overtime, but they didn't explain much.
In a "Disney" scenario, there's (almost) always someone creating the illusion of love and another waiting for it.
This is akin to the "fake it till you make it" philosophy.
WTF ?
I see this pattern again and again. We can also often add children to the whole picture. It's like a big red warning : immature people and ego to action.
FYIW my wife and I got engaged after 2.5 months, married after 4.5 total. We definitely had the lovey dovey feelings but knew going into this that the important thing over the long term was to love each other with our actions. We have a wonderful marriage now that is so much richer and our connection so much more tangible than when we were dating. It blows away any prior relationship I had, including many year dating relationships.
I'm glad this guy figured it out and hope he can fix things for himself.
I agree. However I think there is another cause that breaks many relationships: the illusion that happiness in found in the perfection of everything: a perfect sex life, a partner with a perfect body, the stellar job, a sports car, etc. The grass is always greener on the other side.
Very often, happiness can be found in the here and now. Learn to enjoy the small things.
The problem is that not everyone can really have that, or optimize for those sorts of feelings in their relationship with their partners.
It's like watching Mad Men and thinking you could live like that.
You have a brain and that brain has been conditioned over the years. What brings you happiness, what brings you joy, is not really up to you. The ability you have to give someone else the experience they need to feel happiness and joy, is not up to you.
So you can't really choose what sort of relationship you want to have. You can't have a Jim and Pam relationship because you're not Jim and very few women are Pam.
Instead you can have a relationship that suits your needs. If you do manage to find one, treasure it because it's absolutely special. Don't think it has to look like anything, because it doesn't. It doesn't have to be mundane service. That was something the author and his SO needed.
Very true.
> What brings you happiness, what brings you joy, is not really up to you.
Not quite so true, because of this:
> Don't think it has to look like anything, because it doesn't.
In general, people who are "sold" aren't going to be as happy as people who are capable of identifying their needs for themselves. In the case where a person is used to being sold, it's probably true that they're not as capable of taking this kind of responsibility for themselves.
However this is a skill that can be learned. It's the reason why I'm far happier now as a married man living a very simple life than I was when I was making gobs of money, renting an expensive beach house with a massive pool, and getting drunk all the time while chasing women.
I was sold on an ideal, and it was god awful depressing. As soon as I learned to let that go, things got much, much better.
> I mean, how you can feel that burning love when you’re sitting at the table discussing how to use the last twenty dollars in your bank account?
These are types of issues that, IMO, people need to figure our while they are dating, and not just jump into marriage with someone before knowing how they handle tough, down-on-your-luck, situations. How you handle finances, how you divide chores, the dynamic of a family you want... all these things should be figured out before you pop the question, to make sure you're on the same page with someone before you make to commitment to be with them forever.
It's great this guy found happiness with his wife, but that's quite the gamble he took, not knowing those things before getting married.
</opinion>
The first 6-12 month's of a good relationship are fantastic. Its exciting, full of lust and you get that lovey feeling with little effort.
However, as you get to know each other more and more the fire starts to go out. The relationship transforms into a deeper companionship. Where originally being yourself was enough you now need to make a small effort to show you care. Do something to make the other's life easier, or give them a small surprise etc. Instead of 'the fire' always being there you need to generate it.
People who don't make the effort get the feeling they aren't loved or start arguing or wake up one day and find out they are sleeping next to a friend.
I have been in a relationship for 9 years and am happy. There have been bad patches but it just takes a bit of perseverance to work through them.
I get the impression a lot of people expect a relationship stays in the honeymoon period or give up to easily when they hit a bad patch. I think it's a bit sad.
"The grass is greener on the other side." Some day's it is... but I have found if you go to that other side and give it a little while often what you originally had was better all along.
Warning: The book is written from a Christian perspective.
Yeah thats not going to get you very far.
I find this article portrays a more traditional style of marriage and love where love is more metaphysical than feeling and how the devotion to the marriage and not the romance made it work.
It's "verliebt" and "liebe/lieben". The first is in the beginning, the second after some time (although people will tell you they love you "liebe dich" from the beginning, while in reality they are "only" "verliebt"). When dating you are usually "verliebt" I think. Some fall on love with being "verliebt" and then split up again and again.