I am an American who travels to Amsterdam on a regular basis, and who lived there for 2 years for work. Based on that experience, I believe that there are some more basic cultural issues that need to be addressed if Amsterdam is to be a successful startup culture.
My experience has been an abundance of charlatans. The other issue is that 60% or 6 out of 10 is deemed the best you will ever get out of a Dutch person. And, a lack of accountability in anything that's done - so if it's not done, nothing is said... poor.
To be sure: With this manifesto we don't mean that the ecosystem is completely shit. We've written this post in order to recognise current weakness in the Amsterdam ecosystem, discuss and learn form them, and build something great from it.
You're talking about talking to the government, but you'd need a clear agenda if you want to partake in such an endeavor. So what will the main talking points be and do you have something clear and actionable in mind?
- entry points in education systems using dutch influencers.
- Cheap resources like specialised Housing
- Facilitate talent coming into the country with more information on how to set yourself up and who to talk to.
- Small enterprise and startup awareness campaigns
Anyway, I don't think that the problem with Dutch startups is ambition. It is lack of action taking. If I look at people with awesome and ambitious ideas, they almost never go out and persue it full time. They also almost never try to find a cofounder. If they do, usually it's a group of friends that go at it part time.
So perhaps what we need to convince people of is that it's not so risky to stop what you're doing for a year and pursue a startup idea full time. The Netherlands is actually a very startup friendly country, people just don't know it. They don't know about tax advantages and subsidies available to entrepreneurs. Banks make it seem like getting money is hard.
BTW how did you manage to write a blog post about startup culture in Amsterdam without mentioning Bubbleconf? (http://www.bubbleconf.com)
There are similar events that cost 700+ EUR for one day. With 300 EUR (and 60 EUR student ticket), BubbleConf is already taking a loss in order to make the event accessible to a large number of people.
And tickets have been available for roughly 3-4 months now ;-) If you were among the earliest, you could've gotten it at as low a price as EU 160 inc VAT. And even then this conf is run at a loss. (We're not in it for the money though, we want to grow and inspire the EU startup scene instead).
Who knew conferences were expensive like that right? We certainly didn't when first working on this, so I can't blame you that you seem surprised. The best way to explain/understand is by trying to organise a conf first-hand, it's definitely been an enlightening experience for us.
Just to give you an idea of what is involved:
- Rent an awesome venue for your awesome attendees
- Designing the entire conf
- 300+ Badges/lanyards/programmes/posters/etc...
- Website / Payment systems/checkin systems
- On floor staff of about 12 people for the entire day
- Hire camera folks for video registration
- Hire photographers
- Hire audio technicians and technicians to operate projectors etc...
- Flying over international speakers (and amazing speakers they are indeed)
- Provide lodging for those international speakers
- Organizing a speaker dinner
- Make nice food available for your 300+ attendees during the two lunch breaks.
- Have a nice party at the end with drinks and laughter.
This all culminates into hundreds upon hundreds of hours of work (if not thousands, I lost track somewhere along the line), and many tens of thousands of euro's. The only reason this doesn't reach the 6 figure mark is because of sponsors and the voluntary work we put in this. I hope that after hearing this, EU 300 doesn't sound that crazy anymore ;-)
""Seriously: McKinsey? WTF do they know about starting your own company?"
Eh.. I don't know, maybe they've been consulting and guiding startups since before you were born?"
Consulting and guiding from the sidelines indeed. Being a consultant is pretty much the furthest you can get from being an entrepreneur. They know next to nothing about risk taking, only about mitigating risk to others. I believe it's a true disgrace that new venture is the most well-known startup competition in the Netherlands, and I'm definitely not alone in this. Over the years it has become a bullshit bingo where some 50-year old Shell exec lectures young talent about why their startup should be a sustainability focused business. They just forget to mention how they have been ignoring any form of sustainable behaviour in their own business model for the past 5 decades.
I'd rather take advice from someone who's done it himself instead of following up on some macro-level bullshit business plan book. I don't really believe in stories that promises me golden showers based on some assumption-overloaded excel model. Webvan anybody?
Just to make sure you don't misunderstand me. I don't have any affiliation with McKinsey, I just think it's a bit odd to dismiss a firm with a pretty solid reputation out of hand without much evidence.
I don't think anyone asks of McKinsey that they should be entrepreneurs, or even risk takers. I don't see how risk mitigation is irrelevant to startups. You'll find little about risk mitigation in 'Starting Up' though. It's more about how you can describe your business in a standard way so you and your investors can reason about it more easily. If that's something you want I'll leave up to you.
I don't think you should follow the book to the letter, I just think it's a good little book. There's no stories in it that promise golden showers, none that stuck in my mind anyway.
Isn't the whole idea of risk taking to promise yourself golden showers based on an assumptions based revenue model (or none at all), like webvan did?
I agree with you that it's a good idea to take advice from entrepreneurs themselves though, that's also why Bubbleconf makes an effort to get founders to speak at the conference (and not consultants :P).
(btw, I work for a company that coorganizes Bubbleconf, but I'm a part of the organisation of the conf this year, just a helping hand)
Well thanks to McKinsey is hard to say, since they're not very public about at which companies they consult. But for example Hireart is founded by an ex-McKinsey consultant and they're doing quite well it seems.
The main reason why Amsterdam isn't a startup hub, and won't be for some time, is really simple: money.
First of all compared to SV there is no easy access to capital. Want to raise 100k (an insignificant amount by SV standards)? Well you better get a good price for your kids in the black market because there's barely any VC to speak of and banks do not give money to anything more complicated than a clothing shop.
Next is housing. Amsterdam is one of the most beautiful cities in Europe, but it's also one of the most expensive ones. Living inside the city ring (what people typically understand when you talk about Amsterdam) is extremely expensive. A 50-sqm-one-bedroom appartment will easily cost you $1500 (over 1000€) and for the average person that means almost 50% of your netto salary. Go under that and you're not really living in Amsterdam proper but the newer, and much less desirable, outer boroughs.
Finally there's the issue with compensation. Amsterdam is plagued with yuppies in the finance/consulting/sales sectors for one reason: it's what pays. In consulting 60k is almost entry level, and I'm talking about middle of the road companies. A senior engineer, someone with more than 5-7 years of real experience, is lucky to break 55k and will never get a raise once there. Lack of talent you say? Go 120km to the southeast and you have access to fairly hardcore technical guys. If you need more you have Germany right next to it which also has lots of technical talent. There is no shortage of talent here, there is a shortage of pay and of interesting work. And let's not get into the highly unfavorable contracts offered, like mandatory non-compete agreements for up to two years and automatic ownership of everything you make in your own time with your own equipment.
In short, nothing will change unless there's more money flowing around.
Agree 100%. I basically see all really good engineers either flying out to SF or working from home while being employed by a SF company. Mainly because of the complete lack of appreciation (in hard cash) by companies here. I myself are working for Norwegian company from Amsterdam.
Something to add as well: failure is accepted in the Valley. It's part of the way to success. In the Netherlands you will get BURNED for life. First of all, failing the company and being stuck with personal debt? The only way to get rid of it is to go into 'schuldhulpverlening' (debt helping something), which will mean you will have to live of 30 euro's a week for three years and can't get any bank loans in the first five years after it. Second, an entrepreneur that went bankrupt will have a stain on himself forever, both with banks, as well as investors.
Then there is the complete difference in how investors work between the Valley and Netherlands. When my previous employer was raising money (the company was about 10 persons in size) the only way to get money out of Dutch investors was to replace the management team, whereas they eventually raised 5M in SF. No business plan or no experienced CEO? There is the door. Seed money? There are a few funds that provide it but it's hard to get around to it.
I'd love to hear the one, the first, most important (or with the highest leverage or MVPability) thing we could start to change. Tell me and I'll help.
Startup tour and media attention for it was not bad either btw. At Springest we get a lot of visiting students who want to know what it's like to work at a startup or start your own. I feel a bit like we're also underplaying how much is good already. Maybe a first step is a good directory-style site that gives info on all kinds of startup ecosystem parts? Then we can fill in the gaps or accept them where they can't be filled in. And make sure nobody gives bullshit reasons for not starting something :)
I don't know were you got your information about higher éducation and startups, but a lot of good things are already happening at ACE. http://www.ace-amsterdam.org/
Greetings,
@martinharing
I'll throw in my two cents on the education side of things. My supervisor is a professor of entrepreneurship. I asked her how she teaches it since she has never started a business herself. She said "When I start the course the first thing I tell them is that most of them are not going to start a business." What she believes is that she teaches them a way of thinking that will help in the future. This was weird to me. Basically, despite "expertise" in the topic, it still boiled down to teaching theory and not how to start a business. But that's just a snapshot of one conversation, take from it what you will.
Generally, there is a division in young graduates: the part that want security and benefits and "not having to think about it" to the idealists who have the potential but are clueless as to how to get started. Divisions between disciplines in the classroom mean that in the past year I've spent more time with anthropologists than engineers. A ridiculous amount of time. Who knows what ideas could have been sparked if I'd hung out after-hours with a few techies instead?
The irony is that many of the top graduates from my class will go on to work for McKinsey and other consultancy companies (it was the top career of choice) somehow deluding themselves that they can offer top advice on something they've never fucking done. Isn't that pretty amazing? I think so. They are not bad or dumb people, but they've been taught that they CAN do it like this.
What other industries can you be a consultant in without prior experience?
Great Piece. FYI: last year we brought 500 female led startups together througout the year, to connect with the eco system of investors. we organized 2-monthly Pitch training programmes that won the recognition of the European training Foundation. We have monthly coffee chats for female entrepreneurs. We bring a fresh approach to the startup female entrepreneurs, connecting them with investors. We are building an inclusive startup eco-system, and indeed, if there would be more corporates, VC's, who would support this, we would go faster - and so would the female entrepreneurs. Every country in the world understands that female entrepreneurs are key to future growth of the economy, ( do a google search and you will know) but the Dutch government is not yet there. Next week we'll talk again
38 comments
[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 79.1 ms ] threadMy experience has been an abundance of charlatans. The other issue is that 60% or 6 out of 10 is deemed the best you will ever get out of a Dutch person. And, a lack of accountability in anything that's done - so if it's not done, nothing is said... poor.
Charlatans are in every culture. Slackers are in every culture. This is nothing unique to the Dutch.
I am of the mind that reputation is important, and I'm wary of speaking my concerns to freely in this format, and being misinterpreted.
If anyone cares to talk further, let's do Skype or Google Hangout. My usernames there are the same as here.
These kinds of ideas
Eh.. I don't know, maybe they've been consulting and guiding startups since before you were born?
They've even written an excellent book on starting a business called "Starting Up" (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4505824/Mckinsey-Starting-Up-Busin...)
Anyway, I don't think that the problem with Dutch startups is ambition. It is lack of action taking. If I look at people with awesome and ambitious ideas, they almost never go out and persue it full time. They also almost never try to find a cofounder. If they do, usually it's a group of friends that go at it part time.
So perhaps what we need to convince people of is that it's not so risky to stop what you're doing for a year and pursue a startup idea full time. The Netherlands is actually a very startup friendly country, people just don't know it. They don't know about tax advantages and subsidies available to entrepreneurs. Banks make it seem like getting money is hard.
BTW how did you manage to write a blog post about startup culture in Amsterdam without mentioning Bubbleconf? (http://www.bubbleconf.com)
And tickets have been available for roughly 3-4 months now ;-) If you were among the earliest, you could've gotten it at as low a price as EU 160 inc VAT. And even then this conf is run at a loss. (We're not in it for the money though, we want to grow and inspire the EU startup scene instead).
Who knew conferences were expensive like that right? We certainly didn't when first working on this, so I can't blame you that you seem surprised. The best way to explain/understand is by trying to organise a conf first-hand, it's definitely been an enlightening experience for us.
Just to give you an idea of what is involved:
- Rent an awesome venue for your awesome attendees
- Designing the entire conf
- 300+ Badges/lanyards/programmes/posters/etc...
- Website / Payment systems/checkin systems
- On floor staff of about 12 people for the entire day
- Hire camera folks for video registration
- Hire photographers
- Hire audio technicians and technicians to operate projectors etc...
- Flying over international speakers (and amazing speakers they are indeed)
- Provide lodging for those international speakers
- Organizing a speaker dinner
- Make nice food available for your 300+ attendees during the two lunch breaks.
- Have a nice party at the end with drinks and laughter.
This all culminates into hundreds upon hundreds of hours of work (if not thousands, I lost track somewhere along the line), and many tens of thousands of euro's. The only reason this doesn't reach the 6 figure mark is because of sponsors and the voluntary work we put in this. I hope that after hearing this, EU 300 doesn't sound that crazy anymore ;-)
Eh.. I don't know, maybe they've been consulting and guiding startups since before you were born?"
Consulting and guiding from the sidelines indeed. Being a consultant is pretty much the furthest you can get from being an entrepreneur. They know next to nothing about risk taking, only about mitigating risk to others. I believe it's a true disgrace that new venture is the most well-known startup competition in the Netherlands, and I'm definitely not alone in this. Over the years it has become a bullshit bingo where some 50-year old Shell exec lectures young talent about why their startup should be a sustainability focused business. They just forget to mention how they have been ignoring any form of sustainable behaviour in their own business model for the past 5 decades.
I'd rather take advice from someone who's done it himself instead of following up on some macro-level bullshit business plan book. I don't really believe in stories that promises me golden showers based on some assumption-overloaded excel model. Webvan anybody?
I don't think anyone asks of McKinsey that they should be entrepreneurs, or even risk takers. I don't see how risk mitigation is irrelevant to startups. You'll find little about risk mitigation in 'Starting Up' though. It's more about how you can describe your business in a standard way so you and your investors can reason about it more easily. If that's something you want I'll leave up to you.
I don't think you should follow the book to the letter, I just think it's a good little book. There's no stories in it that promise golden showers, none that stuck in my mind anyway.
Isn't the whole idea of risk taking to promise yourself golden showers based on an assumptions based revenue model (or none at all), like webvan did?
I agree with you that it's a good idea to take advice from entrepreneurs themselves though, that's also why Bubbleconf makes an effort to get founders to speak at the conference (and not consultants :P).
(btw, I work for a company that coorganizes Bubbleconf, but I'm a part of the organisation of the conf this year, just a helping hand)
First of all compared to SV there is no easy access to capital. Want to raise 100k (an insignificant amount by SV standards)? Well you better get a good price for your kids in the black market because there's barely any VC to speak of and banks do not give money to anything more complicated than a clothing shop.
Next is housing. Amsterdam is one of the most beautiful cities in Europe, but it's also one of the most expensive ones. Living inside the city ring (what people typically understand when you talk about Amsterdam) is extremely expensive. A 50-sqm-one-bedroom appartment will easily cost you $1500 (over 1000€) and for the average person that means almost 50% of your netto salary. Go under that and you're not really living in Amsterdam proper but the newer, and much less desirable, outer boroughs.
Finally there's the issue with compensation. Amsterdam is plagued with yuppies in the finance/consulting/sales sectors for one reason: it's what pays. In consulting 60k is almost entry level, and I'm talking about middle of the road companies. A senior engineer, someone with more than 5-7 years of real experience, is lucky to break 55k and will never get a raise once there. Lack of talent you say? Go 120km to the southeast and you have access to fairly hardcore technical guys. If you need more you have Germany right next to it which also has lots of technical talent. There is no shortage of talent here, there is a shortage of pay and of interesting work. And let's not get into the highly unfavorable contracts offered, like mandatory non-compete agreements for up to two years and automatic ownership of everything you make in your own time with your own equipment.
In short, nothing will change unless there's more money flowing around.
Something to add as well: failure is accepted in the Valley. It's part of the way to success. In the Netherlands you will get BURNED for life. First of all, failing the company and being stuck with personal debt? The only way to get rid of it is to go into 'schuldhulpverlening' (debt helping something), which will mean you will have to live of 30 euro's a week for three years and can't get any bank loans in the first five years after it. Second, an entrepreneur that went bankrupt will have a stain on himself forever, both with banks, as well as investors.
Then there is the complete difference in how investors work between the Valley and Netherlands. When my previous employer was raising money (the company was about 10 persons in size) the only way to get money out of Dutch investors was to replace the management team, whereas they eventually raised 5M in SF. No business plan or no experienced CEO? There is the door. Seed money? There are a few funds that provide it but it's hard to get around to it.
Couldn't agree more.
Startup tour and media attention for it was not bad either btw. At Springest we get a lot of visiting students who want to know what it's like to work at a startup or start your own. I feel a bit like we're also underplaying how much is good already. Maybe a first step is a good directory-style site that gives info on all kinds of startup ecosystem parts? Then we can fill in the gaps or accept them where they can't be filled in. And make sure nobody gives bullshit reasons for not starting something :)
Generally, there is a division in young graduates: the part that want security and benefits and "not having to think about it" to the idealists who have the potential but are clueless as to how to get started. Divisions between disciplines in the classroom mean that in the past year I've spent more time with anthropologists than engineers. A ridiculous amount of time. Who knows what ideas could have been sparked if I'd hung out after-hours with a few techies instead?
The irony is that many of the top graduates from my class will go on to work for McKinsey and other consultancy companies (it was the top career of choice) somehow deluding themselves that they can offer top advice on something they've never fucking done. Isn't that pretty amazing? I think so. They are not bad or dumb people, but they've been taught that they CAN do it like this.
What other industries can you be a consultant in without prior experience?