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How to get hired as mature self-taught ex-freelancer?

9 points by iainduncan ↗ HN
(Ok, take two without attachment) Hi, I'm a self-taught, 39 year old Python web/database coder, now looking to get into a full time position after 8 years of freelancing. My problem (I think?) is that I'm not what is considered a catch to the stereotypical founder: no CS degree, been working on regular Python+SQL projects, not young. I know I'm competent, I've been inhaling CS and coding books for years and have taught myself some tricky stuff like microcontroller assembly and real-time audio/midi app development in C. But maybe I don't know how to properly present myself to people who might be interested in someone like me, or know who those people might be. I hope there are some companies who are actually impressed that someone has had to do all the running-a-business stuff in addition to coding, and has experience being completely responsible for the clients and the bottom line? Any one have thoughts on what kind of places those might be or what to stress in applying?

15 comments

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atjoslin
I would advise you learn some cutting edge tech, become good at that, and then people will be begging you for work.
ig1
If you've got a reasonable amount of Python experience you shouldn't have any trouble going from freelance to permie, just apply for regular python roles (assuming that's what you want). You might want to be upfront about salary expectations because permie places might think you're likely to be expensive because you've been freelancing.
teni
What projects have you worked on during your freelancing? Is there some tool out there that you made? Have you fixed a bug somewhere? People usually don't just want to hear "I can do xyz" they want to see stuff. Remember Feross Aboukhadijeh who created youtube instant http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YouTube_Instant , he was offered a job by youtube CEO not long after.
pedalpete
I feel your pain, I'm in a similar position. I just turned 40, have experience in PHP, Rails, lots Javascript (including Backbone, Knockout, a bit of Angular and learning Ember now), a bit of Python and learning Scala. No degree, and most of what I've worked on were internal corporate tools or start-ups that are no longer around.

I've been building out sample apps in newer Javascript frameworks so that along with learning the newer stuff, I have something in my portfolio that I can point too.

What I've found in my interviewing is that the biggest concern people have is that I'll stick around for a few months to a year and then move on, it wasn't until an interview last week that I explained to the CEO that the work I'd been doing was always project work, I didn't regularly just pick-up and leave jobs. He wanted me to work for 60 days without pay so he could be sure that I wouldn't leave without giving 60 days notice.

I'm in Sydney, Australia, and need full-time work to keep my visa or else have to go back to Canada. Where are you based?

Spoom
He wanted me to work for 60 days without pay

Run.

esw
I went through this in 2009. What I found was that no one cared about my degree (also non-CS), but a lot of companies were incredibly hesitant to hire me because of my business experience. I got questions like, "After being your own boss, why would you ever want to work for someone else?" and "How do I know you're not just going to quit in a year and start another company?"*

I rewrote my resume to emphasize my experience as a developer and downplay my experience as a founder, and that was what ultimately got me a job. You want to be truthful on your resume, but you also have to present yourself as someone who is a logical fit for the position being offered.

* It took two years.

tanbo
People here told me that I could make money by teaching myself some code. After seeing a lot of these posts, I am really starting to doubt it. You have so much experience, expertise, and you're a successful freelancer. And you have to ask about jobs? What am I getting myself into... I am 31, I might as well go try to be a professional golfer or something else hilariously impossible. Seriously, I think my life is going to be over soon. There is nothing I can do.
ratsimihah
If you don't try, you'll certainly fail.
JHof
I feel you tanbo. I've been teaching myself and considering a career change through one of the bootcamps. Always makes me wonder how I'm going to suddenly become more employable than someone with years of experience. Haven't quite figured this one out.
EdwardDiego
> How I'm going to suddenly become more employable than someone with years of experience. Haven't quite figured this one out.

Well, you'll be asking for lower salaries than them for a few years, so that'll help. :D

willstepp
I am 36 now and have been programming professionally for six years. At 30 I was in your boat, and here is the reality, you are freakin young dude! Please don't get discouraged and don't listen to folks who say you have to be 21 to be a good programmer. In the real world all that really matters is can you get the job done and do you have a good attitude?
TheSmoke
if you are serious about being a programmer and willing to learn anything you need to know and have the urge to build things i'd say go for it. maybe you won't be making any money instantly because coding doesn't mean money flowing but in time you'll be able to make money. heck, maybe you would build something good and start your own company.
mateo411
I interview a lot of people. My experience is that people with degrees are better are a little better at algorithms and they know big-O complexity. People without degrees hate it when I ask big-O complexity problems.

However, I think the programming ability is something that's gained by doing and not by studying. I think the programming abilities, knowing how to debug, the languages, the IDEs, the people that know this well, are the ones who are passionate about programming.

If I interviewed you, I would ask you some basic Python questions. I would make you code and solve some simple algorithm questions. I would also ask you some SQL questions. I would expect that you could write a SQL statement that does a join, a group by, uses a having clause.

If you can demonstrate this knowledge in an interview that's awesome! If the interview doesn't go well, don't worry too much about it. Try to learn what you didn't do well on, then try again.

ilaksh
I have issues that are similar. I am 35 and have been doing freelancing/contract work for a lot of years. So I think actually this last contract might have hired me but they used the fact that I had been freelancing and knew that I would take a contract instead against me. Not because they didn't want my help, but because they knew they didn't actually have to hire me to get me to work for them, and so wouldn't need to bother with health benefits or a hiring committee or anything.