this is such an interesting piece... would love to see if in 10 years this tactic becomes more adopted amongst companies trying to start vertically-integrated businesses, or whether the tactic starts to receive backlash.
I have two pairs of glasses, one bought from Lens Crafters years ago for over $200, and another that I bought online for less than $20 from Zenni Optical. The glasses are nearly identical in every way, the biggest difference being a slightly sturdier frame in the less expensive pair.
When I bought the first pair years ago, there were no online alternatives, and I remain convinced that the brick-and-mortar spectacle vendors, along with the drive-in optometry practices with which they are often conjoined, are racketeers.
Ok, here's a slightly different story with an online vendor. I bought a pair of prescription sunglasses online. I paid extra to have a thin lens. $250 order from a reputable merchant.
I received a pair of glasses with the lens half an inch thick. This is not an exaggeration. It was literally that thick. Return and refund? Sorry, no, when you place the order you agree that you are NOT entitled to a refund under any circumstances, merely a replacement.
After a bit of back and forth, I sent the pair back and they blamed it on the design of the frame. Ok. I told them to pick a frame where I would get a normal sized lens. So they sent me the new pair, this time it was slightly thinner, but not by much. Now there's a racket. Wasted $250 on a pair of clown glasses with no recourse.
I got a pair at my local Pearle Vision for the same price and the lens was perfectly normal and thin. Never again.
Do you mind if I ask where you spent $250 online for prescription sunglasses? Did that price include designer frames?
I got two pairs of prescription sunglasses from firmoo [1] for about $25 during a promotion. I am currently considering buying a new pair from a different merchant at a regular price of $30-$40 depending on frames, perhaps double that if I spring for polarizing lenses.
Dropping $250 for prescription sunglasses seems extremely expensive, unless you chose and value branded designer frames.
I just tried ordering a pair of eyeglasses from Firmoo myself. The pair of frames (with the default 1.50-index lenses) was $39. Adding on the Ultra Thin (1.67), UV and fingerprint-resistant coatings brought it up to a whopping $106.90 (better lenses cost an additional $67.90).
A comparable pair at SelectSpecs [1] cost $54.33, of which $40.75 was for the 1.67 index option.
Seems like eyeglass stores make the bulk of their revenues (unsurprisingly) from lens customisations these days.
You ordered online and that means you probably paid with a credit card. That means you always have recourse. You could have disputed the charges. Even before you dispute, you could tell the merchant you are likely to dispute. The merchant might refund the money if you'd likely win so they don't get hit with the ramifications of a dispute.
> You ordered online and that means you probably paid with a credit card. That means you always have recourse.
No, you don't always have recourse. If you entered into an agreement with the merchant that the transaction is non-refundable, then no, you don't.
And you can't order glasses with them unless you do.
I'm not claiming that I didn't get anything. Just that I didn't like what I got. And they, of course, will claim that they can't resell what they made for me since it has my prescription in it.
> You could have disputed the charges.
I did.
> Even before you dispute, you could tell the merchant you are likely to dispute.
I did. I didn't go into the details, but there was a bit of drama before they even agreed to a second pair.
That's surprising. I wonder if certain cards are more consumer friendly than others because I've had a positive response when I needed to dispute charges. I've heard that debit adds don't give the same protection as credit cards. Maybe protection is different from card to card too.
You could have taken that frame that you liked and went to a local merchant to purchase new lenses for. That's what I would do even if I purchased the frames online, I'd get the prescription lens done elsewhere.
If I may ask, where did you get your vision checked for the prescription? I think I'm going your cheap route, however, my vision insurance has long been cancelled since I turned into a contractor..
In the absence of insurance, you might try a large retailer like Target or Walmart. The Target store nearest me charges $65 for a complete eye exam, which includes an un-dilated retinal exam and vision test.
I have insurance with a vision plan, however when I bought glasses from Zenni I used an old prescription from 8 years ago. My vision hasn't changed significantly in my adult life. I do still go for an eye exam every couple of years, mainly to keep an eye out for glaucoma, which may run in my family a bit.
Some Costco stores have an on-site optometrist that will do a vision check for ~$50.
The last time I got my eyes checked, I went to a Lens Crafters type store that was having a special for an eye exam and 2 pairs of glasses for $99. Of course they tried to upsell me on the lenses and frames, which got expensive quickly, but I declined and just got the bare minimum. Then I bought a pair of glasses with a nicer lens material online at Zenni. So now I have a few pairs of backup glasses, which is very nice.
I had pretty much the same experience. The $27 glasses from Zenni are a tiny bit sharper than the $200 pair from the big-name store at the mall, though the frames from the mall are Armani. I don't care much about labels, and I have to say the Zenni frames look better to me.
That's actually the biggest reason I prefer to buy online, it's nearly impossible to get glasses locally without a huge brand name plastered on the side.
Another vote of confidence for Zenni. Insurance is a massive distort for the glasses market. While my glasses would have been covered upto $250 under insurance the local retailers have everything priced that I'd still end up paying more. For $39 from Zenni I got an untinted pair with the same frame as my brand name glasses. As a bonus this new pair does not have an unsightly "designer" logo.
The pricing for extras is also much better. The brand name dynamic tinting cost one third at Zenni what the local glasses shop wanted.
I usually end up getting my annual eye exam in December every year, and before I got LASIK this invariably meant new lenses. Usually I always had FSA money subject to a "use it or lose it" policy, too; my employer chose to opt out of giving the grace period to spend it into the following year. So I'd end up plowing that cash into new frames rather than just new lenses because I didn't really have anything else to spend it on.
I wonder how policies like the addition of FSA grace periods, and the brand new policy allowing rolling over up to $500 over to the following year's FSA plan [1], affect Luxxotica's bottom line. I imagine I can't be the only one who, through inaccurate forecasting of the upcoming year's expenses, had a bunch of cash left in my FSA account and decided to burn it on glasses.
Totally random observation, the 7 second Pfizer logo with no sound was a great ad. I appreciated that they did not throw an annoying preroll and was a nice segue for the full ad after the opener.
It's like we're back in 1996 with a MIDI of Enter Sandman lovingly rendered by your Sound-Blaster 16's OPL chip with all the intensity of elevator music.
I remember the line back in those days: "If I wanted your web site to make noise, I'd lick my finger and rub it across the screen."
Oddly anachronistic since monitors don't use that kind of glass anymore.
Not to defend auto-play, but I can't imagine life where flash is not click-to-play. Which also handily solves most auto-playing problems in one go as well. HTML5 will make this more difficult of course...
$99 for two pair of eye glasses is what the commercials say for places like PearlVision or Lens Express.
But that's only for a very small portion of the population. "People who barely need glasses", as I call them. My contacts prescription was 9.5 and after I got poly carbonate lenses and a little tint and some anti-glare coating and scratch protection I'd be looking at $400. A friend of mine who had toric lenses spent over $550.
I kind of wonder how much the insurance companies get charged for the $99 glasses.
Indeed. I've been scraping by with my now slowly disintegrating pair of glasses that I got five years ago. The price, before sales-tax, 645 USD - of which 90 was for the frame, the rest for toric carbonate lenses with scratchproof and anti-reflex coating.
Another reason they are so expensive, is because there are other frame manufacturers that actually make them by hand in the US, which must have high prices. eg. like the little guys: www.somnoir.com
Not a luxxotica fan, but glasses items let you see, and they frame your face, (pretty valuable and aesthetically paramount) As a designer its not easy to combine form and function that operate perfectly and beautifully within the parameters of a humans face.
I buy online as does a coworker using Zenni. My main beef is that the dimensions are nonsense resulting in glasses arriving that are comically narrow.
I also think I have gotten some lenses that were off either with blurry spots or the focal point not being in the right place. That happens with glasses from brick and mortar vendors as well. I don't think the industry standards are very high and if you complain you can't really prove anything.
Just use the $10 specials off Zenni myself, although never ran into any problems. Found it kind of bizarre anyone thinks glasses are expensive any more. Probably the same people who get contact lens exams every year instead of just ordering international.
I started buying from Zenni about 5 years ago. It makes me so happy that I can just buy new glasses when they get scratched. I spent my childhood trying to see through $300 scratched lenses for no reason.
I've tried a bunch of cheap online vendors (Zenni, Optical4Less, Goggles4U) over the years. All were acceptable and probably averaged about $40/pair total with high-index lenses, but the frames always felt cheap and occasionally I'd get a pair that give me headaches (I later learned that likely either the pupiary distance or optical center were off).
When I did have an issue, the return process was pretty tedious and annoying, so I usually just ended up eating the cost and dropping the glasses in a donation bin.
After a few years, I probably ended up spending roughly the same as if I'd gone to a local shop with the advantage of having spare glasses with the correct prescription for the first time in my life.
Recently tried Warby Parker and although they seem extravagantly priced ($95/$120) compared to the others, the quality of the frames were noticeably better and the customer service in a completely different universe. I had to return my first pair from them since the frames ended up being narrower than I expected/gave me headaches and the exchange process was incredibly quick and painless.
I will say, for anyone thinking about ordering glasses online, try your best to get your pupiary distance measured by a professional. It's not easy to get opticians to do anymore, since they know you are going to buy your glasses online but it's a difficult measurement to get yourself and being off by just a few mm can cause headaches.
[edit - got the price of WP high index lenses wrong]
Wow, I've experienced getting headaches every time that I've gotten a new pair of glasses. I never thought it would be because the pupillary distance was off. I just thought I had to adjust to the new prescription. But half of them were from a brick and mortar store so I'd expect them to get the pupillary distance right.
I think that a big change in prescriptions can cause it temporarily as well, but definitely have them re-check the prescription/PD. A surprising number of mistakes are made.
Also if you notice that your eyes aren't centered vertically in the frames, that can mean the optical center is off which can lead to headaches.
I'm personally looking forward to ordering inexpensive glasses from Zenni so I can go back to good old CR-39. It's easily scratched, but if I can simply replace them more often then I don't have to choose proprietary "high-index" material for reasonable chromatic aberration (polycarbonate is terrible for me - large red and blue edges on everything).
Granted, "order new glasses" has been on my todo list for a while, and I haven't quite gotten around to it. I hope when I finally get around to it, Zenni isn't too busy due to this article :P
I just bought a pair of eyeglasses and sunglasses last week to use out my benefits from work. My previous pair I purchased online from Coastal Contacts. Those cost my ~$175. I spent ~$600 on my eyeglasses and sunglasses at a local optometrist this week, after my insurance coverage.
This time around, it was a lot easier. The ladies there picked a bunch of frames they thought would look good on me, and had me try them on. I had both pairs picked within 30 minutes. On Coastal Contacts, I took almost a week to finally decide on a pair. Is it worth the vast difference in price? Debatable. I do like these glasses, they look a lot better. But overall, the experience was better. I'd probably do it again, but only because I can afford it. I do understand that spending ~$300 for glasses is untenable for many folks, and the online shops do a great job of fulfilling that need.
That being said, I watched this whole video, and I think that the Luxottica brand is amazing. Here's a scrappy little shop in the Italian Alps that went from a small factory in the 60s to having over $9bil in sales last year in 50+ years. Not only do they own and make several eyewear brands, they own retail stores, and they even own an insurance provider.
You can lament their monopoly all you want, but I think they're an excellent example of what hard work and tenacity can produce. Since many of us are aspiring founders, we can only hope to achieve such market dominance.
Also, that CEO handled that interview extremely well.
I used to buy glasses on my trips to South Korea every couple years. So long as I had my prescription, I could go into a glasses store, pick from any number of stylish glasses, get my specialized lenses made (top of the line) and walk out for well under $100. I think I paid around $25-30 a couple of times. It was cheap enough that I'd buy 2 or 3 pair to take home with me.
These days, the economy of Korea has picked up enough that a pair of glasses there runs about what it costs here in the U.S. at Costco. The selection they have at Costco isn't quite as good or as stylish, but if you look in the "so expensive we keep these frame under glass in the counter" they usually have some top of the line frames for around $100. It's not 1 hour, you have to wait about a week for them to get made, but they've always come back perfect.
49 comments
[ 3.6 ms ] story [ 109 ms ] threadWhen I bought the first pair years ago, there were no online alternatives, and I remain convinced that the brick-and-mortar spectacle vendors, along with the drive-in optometry practices with which they are often conjoined, are racketeers.
I received a pair of glasses with the lens half an inch thick. This is not an exaggeration. It was literally that thick. Return and refund? Sorry, no, when you place the order you agree that you are NOT entitled to a refund under any circumstances, merely a replacement.
After a bit of back and forth, I sent the pair back and they blamed it on the design of the frame. Ok. I told them to pick a frame where I would get a normal sized lens. So they sent me the new pair, this time it was slightly thinner, but not by much. Now there's a racket. Wasted $250 on a pair of clown glasses with no recourse.
I got a pair at my local Pearle Vision for the same price and the lens was perfectly normal and thin. Never again.
I got two pairs of prescription sunglasses from firmoo [1] for about $25 during a promotion. I am currently considering buying a new pair from a different merchant at a regular price of $30-$40 depending on frames, perhaps double that if I spring for polarizing lenses.
Dropping $250 for prescription sunglasses seems extremely expensive, unless you chose and value branded designer frames.
[1] http://firmoo.com/
A comparable pair at SelectSpecs [1] cost $54.33, of which $40.75 was for the 1.67 index option.
Seems like eyeglass stores make the bulk of their revenues (unsurprisingly) from lens customisations these days.
[1] http://selectspecs.com
OpticsPlanet.com
> Did that price include designer frames?
Yes. Ray-ban.
> unless you chose and value branded designer frames.
Bingo.
No, you don't always have recourse. If you entered into an agreement with the merchant that the transaction is non-refundable, then no, you don't.
And you can't order glasses with them unless you do.
I'm not claiming that I didn't get anything. Just that I didn't like what I got. And they, of course, will claim that they can't resell what they made for me since it has my prescription in it.
> You could have disputed the charges.
I did.
> Even before you dispute, you could tell the merchant you are likely to dispute.
I did. I didn't go into the details, but there was a bit of drama before they even agreed to a second pair.
edit: typo
You could have taken that frame that you liked and went to a local merchant to purchase new lenses for. That's what I would do even if I purchased the frames online, I'd get the prescription lens done elsewhere.
I have insurance with a vision plan, however when I bought glasses from Zenni I used an old prescription from 8 years ago. My vision hasn't changed significantly in my adult life. I do still go for an eye exam every couple of years, mainly to keep an eye out for glaucoma, which may run in my family a bit.
The last time I got my eyes checked, I went to a Lens Crafters type store that was having a special for an eye exam and 2 pairs of glasses for $99. Of course they tried to upsell me on the lenses and frames, which got expensive quickly, but I declined and just got the bare minimum. Then I bought a pair of glasses with a nicer lens material online at Zenni. So now I have a few pairs of backup glasses, which is very nice.
The pricing for extras is also much better. The brand name dynamic tinting cost one third at Zenni what the local glasses shop wanted.
I wonder how policies like the addition of FSA grace periods, and the brand new policy allowing rolling over up to $500 over to the following year's FSA plan [1], affect Luxxotica's bottom line. I imagine I can't be the only one who, through inaccurate forecasting of the upcoming year's expenses, had a bunch of cash left in my FSA account and decided to burn it on glasses.
[1] http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405270230384310...
Are the law so lax in northern Italy? At what point does the EU step in?
Sound on webpages is evil, unless I ask for it first.
I remember the line back in those days: "If I wanted your web site to make noise, I'd lick my finger and rub it across the screen."
Oddly anachronistic since monitors don't use that kind of glass anymore.
But that's only for a very small portion of the population. "People who barely need glasses", as I call them. My contacts prescription was 9.5 and after I got poly carbonate lenses and a little tint and some anti-glare coating and scratch protection I'd be looking at $400. A friend of mine who had toric lenses spent over $550.
I kind of wonder how much the insurance companies get charged for the $99 glasses.
I also think I have gotten some lenses that were off either with blurry spots or the focal point not being in the right place. That happens with glasses from brick and mortar vendors as well. I don't think the industry standards are very high and if you complain you can't really prove anything.
When I did have an issue, the return process was pretty tedious and annoying, so I usually just ended up eating the cost and dropping the glasses in a donation bin.
After a few years, I probably ended up spending roughly the same as if I'd gone to a local shop with the advantage of having spare glasses with the correct prescription for the first time in my life.
Recently tried Warby Parker and although they seem extravagantly priced ($95/$120) compared to the others, the quality of the frames were noticeably better and the customer service in a completely different universe. I had to return my first pair from them since the frames ended up being narrower than I expected/gave me headaches and the exchange process was incredibly quick and painless.
I will say, for anyone thinking about ordering glasses online, try your best to get your pupiary distance measured by a professional. It's not easy to get opticians to do anymore, since they know you are going to buy your glasses online but it's a difficult measurement to get yourself and being off by just a few mm can cause headaches.
[edit - got the price of WP high index lenses wrong]
Also if you notice that your eyes aren't centered vertically in the frames, that can mean the optical center is off which can lead to headaches.
Granted, "order new glasses" has been on my todo list for a while, and I haven't quite gotten around to it. I hope when I finally get around to it, Zenni isn't too busy due to this article :P
-What you're likely to hear from the salesman
This time around, it was a lot easier. The ladies there picked a bunch of frames they thought would look good on me, and had me try them on. I had both pairs picked within 30 minutes. On Coastal Contacts, I took almost a week to finally decide on a pair. Is it worth the vast difference in price? Debatable. I do like these glasses, they look a lot better. But overall, the experience was better. I'd probably do it again, but only because I can afford it. I do understand that spending ~$300 for glasses is untenable for many folks, and the online shops do a great job of fulfilling that need.
That being said, I watched this whole video, and I think that the Luxottica brand is amazing. Here's a scrappy little shop in the Italian Alps that went from a small factory in the 60s to having over $9bil in sales last year in 50+ years. Not only do they own and make several eyewear brands, they own retail stores, and they even own an insurance provider.
You can lament their monopoly all you want, but I think they're an excellent example of what hard work and tenacity can produce. Since many of us are aspiring founders, we can only hope to achieve such market dominance.
Also, that CEO handled that interview extremely well.
These days, the economy of Korea has picked up enough that a pair of glasses there runs about what it costs here in the U.S. at Costco. The selection they have at Costco isn't quite as good or as stylish, but if you look in the "so expensive we keep these frame under glass in the counter" they usually have some top of the line frames for around $100. It's not 1 hour, you have to wait about a week for them to get made, but they've always come back perfect.
I've also recommended them to several family members and friends. We've each had really good experiences so far.