How do you feel about work hours? I've taken keen interest in the reactions to the Penny Arcade post and curious how most peoples' opinions are divided on the subject of hours specifically.
I do about 30h of "work days" and easily more than 10h of off-hours, took me a few changes of venue to remove the requirement to be at my desk 8-9 hours a day, and I am more productive and happier.
I find that the people who chronically overwork are the ones who have bosses that are terrible at delegating and drop a pile of tasks on them randomly that "need to be deployed today". With good organization and realistic project goals I think 40 & gone is fine. If they want more they have to give good reason, especially if it's for free. Personally I wouldn't mind so much because I'm a contract consultant. I just keep billing. But man would I be annoyed as a salaried guy.
I used to be in this position and yeah it wasn't nice. We also didn't get overtime, so nobody was motivated when we had to work weekends because something was promised to a client. I'm contracting now though, so yeah, I don't mind :)
I can work 45+ for roughly about 3 months before I get burned out and productivity plummets. It's important that I stop and go do something else (hobbies, exercise, etc) so that I can continue being productive over the long haul. It's a shame employers often don't recognize this
I work part time: 30 hours/week as three ten hour days, and I take M and F "off" (staying home with my kids). It's awesome. Plus it means I am paid hourly, so on the rare occasion where I need to come in for some extra time, I get paid for it.
I'm a contractor (by choice) so I always laugh when they remind me "the contract stipulates that we will not pay for more than 40 hours under any circumstances" because that just means I'm done with the week by Wednesday.
I work about 45 or so, some weeks a bit less and some a bit more, but I generally have a few projects on the go at any one time. I would flat out refuse to work over 45 for a day job if they actually expected it. I love coding, but if you let an unhealthy expectation of long hours continue you'll be doing it forever and getting paid less than your salary would indicate.
You're jamming several different types of answers into single selections, then leaving gaping holes in other areas. If you want hours, just do hours. If you want sentiment, just do sentiment but you're going to need way more options. If you want to do hours and sentiment, you'd need about 25 different options just to properly cover what you're indicating here, not even counting all the holes you've left.
This. I work roughly 55 hours a week. I love my work, but I wish I didn't have to work so hard. We're constantly hiring, but always a couple hires behind the workload. Of course, it's my responsibility to oversee this process, so it's all my fault. Anyway...the ambiguity is obvious.
This is tricky. If I'm working full-time, depending on the compensation, specifically in terms of stock and salary, I'll optimize for 40 hours a week.
As a freelance developer, I don't care how many hours you want me to work. I get compensated for it. Though, I'll still optimize for 40 since, I don't know, I want to live my life, and I want to do a great job.
If I'm starting my own business, I'll work more.
All that said, I strongly believe in working sustainably. I'd rather have a steady rate of work, than some erratic graph with lots of spikes (followed by crashes).
Eat right, exercise, spend time with loved ones, and work hard.
I worked till 3am last night.....and no one knew about it. Most of my late nights come not from some requirement or deadline but from a PERSONAL desire to complete something. (I was working on a local configuration issue ie: it has no impact on any deliverable)
This can be a suckers game... I've been there and I understand the desire but you need to be careful to manage expectations. There will come a time when you can't or don't want to work like that, but you're trapped by your and your employers expectations.
I'm not saying don't do it, just don't do it invisibly.
Perhaps 40 and 45 hours choices are not distinguishable in the real world. 9-5 or 9-6? 8.30 to 6.30? All of these can be equalized with some decompression time during the day. The real problems start when these windows are non-viable and 50 hours+ is numerically when that starts happening.
I don't think I can really answer without checking all the boxes. Spending time working for a company is like investing. The amount I'm willing to invest is related to my expected return.
1 - When I was working for a large company (10,000+ employees) I typically was out the door at 40 hours. The company was established, my equity was nonexistent and I gain nothing for supporting their inability to plan.
2 - If I'm working for a startup I believe in and have significant equity then I'm working day and night on it.
3 - If I don't have tangible equity and I'm working for a startup or small company then I'm willing to wear multiple hats and put in additional hours. However this isn't something that I'll do for an extended period.
4 - If I'm a contractor being paid at market rate then it's however many hours you want me there. 40, 80, 120... doesn't bother me.
Pretty much agreed except maybe 4. If a contract screams crazy deadlines I'm significantly bumping my rate upfront. To me extra hours have steeply increasing marginal cost which is maybe why I got a really good job so that I don't have to grab contracts.
I agree every hour over 40 to mean is more valuable to me so my 41st hour might be 1.1 times my standard rate, however my 60th hour might be 2 times my standard rate (the multipliers here mentioned are only for illustrative purposes).
It would seem strange that a company would wish to purchase more hours at an increasing rate since the quality of the output from the later hours is likely diminishing.
Great answer, that's exactly how I feel. It's all a question of expected return. With one small difference ...
I have a 3-year old son. Working day and night is always within reason for me, because no matter how much I could gain, I'll always regret the time I haven't spent with my son. Therefore I work in waves. I have weeks in which I work 14-18 hours per day, followed by weeks in which I spend more quality time with my family.
The effort also has to be rationalized. Working long hours for sustained periods leads to stress and mental exhaustion, which ultimately impacts your productivity negatively. You always have to (1) be careful and listen to your body when it shows signs that you need to rest and (2) reflect on your productivity, because it doesn't matter if you work 14-hour days if you don't get anything done. Sometimes taking a step back and relaxing for a bit does wonders for productivity.
Too context specific to give a single answer here.
Presumably this has to do with the Penny Arcade story... I can tell you for sure I wouldn't work 80 hours a week for below market rate with seemingly no equity in the company. That shit is bananas.
It fluctuates. At my current job, I've had 35-37 hours weeks and 50+ hours week. I voted for the second option, at the time of this writing:
"I work 40-45 hours, and have no problem working a little extra when needed."
Even though it's not always a "little" extra.
I love what I do (to be more honest, I love the people I'm doing it with) so I don't count the hours (this is literally the first time in 8 months I counted).
I don't think it's an easy solution. You want employees who are willing to work extra when needed, but you want them to achieve a good work-life balance so that the rhythm is sustainable.
To be more specific about the Penny Arcade post, I don't find it as repulsive as most (vocal) people here did. Full disclaimer, I'm 26 with no kids. I enjoyed the honest tone of the offer, and I think there's a subset (a niche?) of engineers today that would be interested in working in these conditions.
Is it a place to make a career? probably not. But I wouldn't mind spending a year or two in that environment, as long as I know exactly what I'm stepping into since day 1. Being given this much work load implies a lot of responsibilities, and, in turn, lots and lots of opportunities to get better.
How would you feel about a martial artist or a musician deciding to spend a couple of years practicing their art for 12-15 hours a day?
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 106 ms ] threadAs a freelance developer, I don't care how many hours you want me to work. I get compensated for it. Though, I'll still optimize for 40 since, I don't know, I want to live my life, and I want to do a great job.
If I'm starting my own business, I'll work more.
All that said, I strongly believe in working sustainably. I'd rather have a steady rate of work, than some erratic graph with lots of spikes (followed by crashes).
Eat right, exercise, spend time with loved ones, and work hard.
I'm not saying don't do it, just don't do it invisibly.
1 - When I was working for a large company (10,000+ employees) I typically was out the door at 40 hours. The company was established, my equity was nonexistent and I gain nothing for supporting their inability to plan.
2 - If I'm working for a startup I believe in and have significant equity then I'm working day and night on it.
3 - If I don't have tangible equity and I'm working for a startup or small company then I'm willing to wear multiple hats and put in additional hours. However this isn't something that I'll do for an extended period.
4 - If I'm a contractor being paid at market rate then it's however many hours you want me there. 40, 80, 120... doesn't bother me.
It would seem strange that a company would wish to purchase more hours at an increasing rate since the quality of the output from the later hours is likely diminishing.
I have a 3-year old son. Working day and night is always within reason for me, because no matter how much I could gain, I'll always regret the time I haven't spent with my son. Therefore I work in waves. I have weeks in which I work 14-18 hours per day, followed by weeks in which I spend more quality time with my family.
The effort also has to be rationalized. Working long hours for sustained periods leads to stress and mental exhaustion, which ultimately impacts your productivity negatively. You always have to (1) be careful and listen to your body when it shows signs that you need to rest and (2) reflect on your productivity, because it doesn't matter if you work 14-hour days if you don't get anything done. Sometimes taking a step back and relaxing for a bit does wonders for productivity.
Presumably this has to do with the Penny Arcade story... I can tell you for sure I wouldn't work 80 hours a week for below market rate with seemingly no equity in the company. That shit is bananas.
I love what I do (to be more honest, I love the people I'm doing it with) so I don't count the hours (this is literally the first time in 8 months I counted).
I don't think it's an easy solution. You want employees who are willing to work extra when needed, but you want them to achieve a good work-life balance so that the rhythm is sustainable.
To be more specific about the Penny Arcade post, I don't find it as repulsive as most (vocal) people here did. Full disclaimer, I'm 26 with no kids. I enjoyed the honest tone of the offer, and I think there's a subset (a niche?) of engineers today that would be interested in working in these conditions.
Is it a place to make a career? probably not. But I wouldn't mind spending a year or two in that environment, as long as I know exactly what I'm stepping into since day 1. Being given this much work load implies a lot of responsibilities, and, in turn, lots and lots of opportunities to get better.
How would you feel about a martial artist or a musician deciding to spend a couple of years practicing their art for 12-15 hours a day?