Ask HN: Do you cold-contact peers when considering working at a company?
I'm thinking about my next software development job. I think I might find a developer in a similar job in a company, cold-email them, and ask a few questions about what it's really like to work there. (I'll include a link to my personal site so that they understand I'm worth responding to.)
I'll be more comfortable talking to them rather applying for a job directly which makes me seem needy.
They'll probably be more honest and open than a hiring manager. And if it goes well, they may pass on my resume.
I'm surprised that I haven't heard this done more often. Have you tried this? Does it work for you? Or does it seem rude?
40 comments
[ 5.0 ms ] story [ 97.1 ms ] threadContacting a peer has advantages, but on the other hand the manager gives you a straighter path to a job -- if you decide that that's what you want.
The worst time to be networking is when you're looking for a new job. (That's not to say you shouldn't do it; it's just a bad time to be starting the process.) The best time to network is when you're not looking. When you've got no hidden, job-seeking agenda in mind, you're psychologically in a less desperate and more genuinely curious place. And the people you talk to will be less skeptical or cynical, because they'll see that you're not just using them to get a job. The "networking" becomes less transactional and more social, and the connections developed are more likely to be mutually interesting and beneficial.
That's not to say that reaching out to someone within a company is a bad thing, even when applying for a job. Indeed, it's better to have anyone on the inside than to drop a resume completely blind. And it's better to get the inside scoop on a company that's made you an offer than to accept the offer without diligence. Ideally, though, you don't want your first contact with someone inside the company to be simultaneous to your application to work there.
Much more can be said about "networking" -- how to do it, when to do it, ethical considerations about it, social qualms about it, or even whether "networking" is really a less ideal form of some other, presumably more meaningful activity (e.g., making friends on an agenda-free basis). But I'll leave those considerations for a different discussion.
I usually mention this in my e-mail saying something like "I'm contacting you because we both did X so I thought it might be alright to bother you."
To me, it seems polite enough.
Wouldn't _you_ answer such an email if it was polite and seemed to come from a serious developer?
If it's just "feel" that you are looking for -- then I think you'll get that.
That is far from a good indicator, but it is a start.
And if the communication goes well, I can schedule a call or continue the email correspondence.
I've only ever cold e-mailed recruiters (or some job listing e-mail), which is pretty much expected.
But it's still possible to respond neutrally, truthfully, and informatively.
For example, it's possible to just answer with positive aspects and leave out the negatives--that's still valuable info.
Or someone can honestly talk about whether the culture is, for example, high-energy or more laid-back -- each has its advantages.
Are you saying that it is _not_ at all worth cold-emailing a peer in a potential workplace?
In short, +1 to the parent comment. It should definitely be possible to gain useful information from an e-mail that focuses on the positives.
I'm not sure why you think that your personal site proves that you're "worth responding to." The problem with your post is that it's all about you - you're not thinking of what's in it for the recipient of your email, or what risks it poses for them.
The link to my personal site has the role of a resume -- it is to show that I'm not sure random person off the street, I am someone who may well be worth recruiting.
The idea is that the contact will see that a serious, experienced, front-end designer/developer just made contact and may well want to pitch their company to me.
I'm not looking for them to slag off their company, of course.
I am fine being pitched to, but I'd prefer that a fellow developer does this.
Ask them questions about the product or service. If they are enthusiastic and helpful, that will be an indicator that the company is a good place to work. If they don't respond, or forward you to marketing or sales, that tells you something else about the company.
After the initial contact, you might then ask questions about the company in general. Something like: we like the product, but are unsure if the company will be around in a year, etc. At that point the developer might just give you the standard company line, or might be more forth coming.
For example, you could say -- "Developing Augmented Reality apps fascinates me, and Example.com seems to be a leader. Do you really get to do leading-edge work in Augmented Reality there?"
Short version, showing interest helps. Showing you are connected helps.
You got the best of both worlds: Even though you didn't know anyone, you were able to contact someone who you were already "connected" to.
That usually works.
I don't get how applying for a job makes you seem needy, though. If there's actually a job opening and you are qualified for it, then why not apply? I think of informational interviews as being a way to network into jobs that don't exist (or before they are posted)
As to the informational interview -- is that also the term used when the candidate makes contact to a peer? If so, then it's good to know that the concept exists.
Setting up informational interviews (to me, someone who has been hiring developers for 20+ years) is a sign of maturity. I think of such a person as "active", but knows enough not to put a resume in a pile. It only assures them of a real interview -- not the job (they jump to the top of the pile)
I personally would never apply blind.
As to whether it is through my network or not -- I'll try my network, but a well-phrased email that shows I am a serious professional is usually enough to get a foot in the door, even with someone who doesn't know me.
I was in an unusual situation -- had been out of school for five years, and so did not have any useful contacts. So I browsed the personal home pages of graduate students at programs I was interested in, e-mailed several of them out of the blue, and asked them about what they liked about their programs.
For the most part, they were wonderfully supportive. I got several very substantive and encouraging replies, and learned some useful information about programs I was interested in. I'm very glad I did it.
The situation was somewhat different from OP's --- I didn't want anything from them (and indeed there was nothing they could have done for me) other than to reply to my messages. In particular, I didn't entertain the thought of sending them a resume to pass on (it wouldn't have helped).
So different situation, but for me it worked.
If we had met through friends or at a meetup, I'd have been happy to talk to you much more openly about my job and the workplace.
The best developers I know have contacts all over town. They occasionally go along to meetups and user-groups on things they are interested in - not in a cynical way, they just enjoy chatting to like-minded folk and learning.
I would suggest you start doing the same, with the warnings about appearing desperate as mentioned in jonnathanson's comment. You don't have to sacrifice your personal/family life, just go along to a meetup on some technology/language/topic of interest once or twice a month, be friendly and personable, swap details with any like-minded people and stay in touch with them on occasion.
Interesting. Seeing it laid that way, one could easily see that as selection bias. The good developers you know have contacts all over town. The good developers you don't know don't have contact all over town and so you don't know and can't compare them to the developers you know.
Not that this an argument against socializing, just the opposite.
I'm not saying that there is no bias in that observation or that a certain kind of networking will somehow turn into you an amazing developer. Maybe people who make themselves part of a community will learn (or learn about) useful skills from their friends/peers. Maybe some people like sharing and talking about their skills and creations. Maybe people who only interact with their immediate colleagues in their current place of work are prone to developing bad habits.
Maybe this is not the typical case but all I know is that the best people I have worked with have maintained a group of friends/peers/colleagues in the software industry outside the walls of their place of work.
Note: I was not emailing a specific developer, but instead the main company contact info. Like you, I asked to talk to determine fit.
I got much better results when I already knew someone at the company.