When I got on the intertubes, oh-so-many years ago - the rules were simple: the ONLY piece of information you could freely give on public forums, or IRC, was your nick. Now, the only piece of information you are supposed to withhold is your credit card number.
I'll say this about the new ways: I'm extremely glad that I didn't have my teenage years documented and archived. Dodged that bullet!
Internet .1 - Finger protocol - Real Names, everyone pretty much knows each other (or the organization where you work) and is atmosphere is generally very friendly.
Internet .2 - Finger is no longer used, malicious users and hackers exist, social networks become very personal (Usenet, IRC) pseudonyms make sense, not just for privacy but to usher in a new sentiment of power and respect through anonymity. Computer security is very low.
Internet .3 - WWW becomes a thing, people still use pseudonyms and generally don't trust anything for good measure, computer security is very low.
Internet .4 - WWW evolves for the masses/commerce and social networks re-emerge on the web (Myspace, Facebook), people start to use real names everywhere. - A new generation exists that was never on the internet before .4. Computer security is much better.
Internet .5 - Pseudonyms don't become popular again thanks to the general ignorance of the tube watchers.
It was less "your real name" than "your well known userid". Hence: rms, dmr, ken. Often but not always your initials, first name, or first initial + last name.
Enough for your friends (and early on everyone knew everyone) to know who you were. But comprehensive archives weren't generally available (there's a reason kibo was so notable).
I felt the same way about nicknames, but at some point I realized that I had a digital trail attached to my online-name that was a mile wide. I figured I might as well just start using my real name (which is rather unique already).
Also, I find your story of rules interesting. When I was first introduced to the internet (when I was about 7 years old, in school), the one "rule" I remember being told to us over and over again, by parents, by teachers, by anyone in authority was:
Everything you do online *can* be traced back to you. Communicating online
requires the same etiquette as communicating face to face. Don't do or say
anything you wouldn't do or say in real life.
That was the "one rule" of my day, and of the people I knew. It's one of the things that made switching to my real name easy, since I didn't have to change how I wrote.
Wow, you must be very young, i.e. 10-12, or have very perceptive teachers. I feel that teachers and other authority figures still don't get it, especially those above 40 who aren't in a Internet/computer-heavy field. And even young folks in the tech field still don't realize it (basically everyone who uses something like SnapChat too enthusiastically)
I'd put it down to where I grew up and who I grew up around. This was 2000-2002, and I grew up in Redmond, Washington. My first real Internet experience was getting a school email account, and they gave us a long series of talks about how we were supposed to use them appropriately.
Yeah, I wanted to study CS, but there was pretty much no chance of me getting into the very competitive CS major at UW. So I decided to go to a smaller WSU campus in the Tri-Cities. It's way, way smaller, and with much smaller staff, but for CS it's totally perfect. It's pretty much all taught by people who've been doing research at Pacific Northwest National Laboratory for the past 30+ years.
It's a great mix of professors who have tremendous experience in academia and industry, as well as a small enough campus to allow random undergrads to spend tons of time working with and learning from them. I feel like it's a serious hidden gem for those looking to learn CS.
Yeah 10-12 is low-balling it. Someone could easily be four or five years older than I am (14), and have been hearing all that advice for much of their lives.
Yes, I'm 19, and this happened in the early 2000's. I think though that I got this advice a bit earlier than others because I grew up in Redmond, Washington, surrounded by Microsoft and people involved in and influenced by computers and the Internet.
They've been tracking everyone since 9/11. That was the day the world changed for online anonymity. For good or bad, it just is. Of course, the powers of authority (eg, teachers) also want it that way. You can see it in the language of fear the perpetuate: we are watching you...etc.
I'm thirty and have been getting on the internet since the first Bush administration. Even at the time, the first rule of the internet is that everything you put online is public. This wasn't just about things that you posted on forums, either. The assumption was that the sysadmin would read your e-mails when she was bored and that anything interesting would be passed around.
I've been on the Internet since 1989 (second year of college) when practically everything on the Internet was public (even every computer---NAT wasn't done until the mid-90s) and that if you didn't want it known publically, you didn't put it on the Internet. And what you did put on the Internet you must accept responsibility for.
Even today, I treat everything I post to the Internet as public. Even on MyGoogleFaceSpacePlusBook, I don't bother with privacy settings, because of 1) the above, where I treat everything I put on the Internet as public, and 2) the people who run MyGoogleFaceSpacePlusBook really love mucking with the default privacy setttings.
I feel like there's still value in hiding real names, if only to block the low-hanging fruit. A 1337 hacker can surely trace me no matter what name I use, but using an alias is practically effort-free and can slow down Joe Sixpack.
It also depends where I am posting, and whether I want to "own" what I say on that particular site. It's nice when my real-life compatriots don't necessarily know every darn thing I say or do online. They could find out if they really wanted to, of course.
When I joined the internet, there was Usenet. And Usenet etiquette (at least for de.* which is what I had to restrain myself to due to the general lack of English) required you to provide a real name, so that's what I've done.
This made me much less reluctant to use my real name later on.
However, just as my real name, my pseudonym also stuck and I try to get it whenever I sign up for a service. That way I'm twitter.com/pilif, github.com/pilif, even facebook.com/pilif, though I don't use that.
Unfortunately, on G+, I can't be /pilif. I have to be pilif123459 or whatever. Too bad.
I think the trend until mid 90s was to use your real name. Then it kind of changed at some point in 90s to nicknames. Now we seem to be going back to the early 90s when it was common to use your name.
German Usenet was and still is (in)famous for demanding real names.
In the late nineties and early 00s there ware huge wars between those who campaigned for pseudonyms (usually labelled "net terrorists", although honestly most of them really were trolls) and those who insisted on real names (labelled as "Blockwart": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter).
Of course it's immaterial now. Most of the "net terrorists" left, many of the "blockwarts" mellowed, and in the end Usenet is dead and both sides tolerate much more than they used to, just happy to see a few more postings.
At a guess, you're @mrspeaker on Twitter which means you and I met at a local event a few years ago, but I still don't know / can't remember who you are! Funny how that works.
DrStalker is based on my real surname and would be very easy to trace to my real name/employment details/the city I'm in with a few minutes of effort. I'm sure someone with a bit more time could get a lot more information than that. This helps remind me that everything online can be traced back to me, so don't be an asshole in situations where you wouldn't be an asshole face to face.
I settled on this after going through lots of different nicknames in the 90s, when the internet was a very different place.
I think part of the flight from Facebook and Google+ into smaller social networks which don't require such identifying details is due to this desire for pseudo-anonymity. That said, it's no IRC. And many forums I frequented years ago have long since been destroyed. Perhaps that's why teens are also digging Snapchat, and services like it. A way to communicate without being tracked.
I use my real name on IRC. 100% of my IRC is dev related or similar on things I want people to know I'm involved in in some way. Just use a simple letter.surname handle.
Most people do a lousy job of keeping the names separate.
You can usually follow a chain of pseudonyms back through time to get to the early embarrassing posts.
Meatball wiki changed my mind about real name posting. First I thought "always use an obvious nym", then "always use a realistic, but false, name". Now I just post using me real name on a few places, and a bunch of nyms (realistic and otherwise) in other places.
My writing (especially my appalling use of punctuation) is distinctive. I think it'd be easy enough to tell if a post is mine or not by counting the weird commas.
Perhaps privacy advocates need some method of making writing more anonymous? Lower-case everything, convert full-stops to new lines, strip out all out punctuation?
Yes, but most people's e-reputation has to withstand only the most cursory of google searches so using a nickname, even without air-tight OPSEC, is often enough.
>My writing (especially my appalling use of punctuation) is distinctive. I think it'd be easy enough to tell if a post is mine or not by counting the weird commas.
I feel like the Internet has gotten the same treatment that hitchhiking has gotten - stories make it seem dangerous, but when measured, the danger is much lower than expected.
Agreed. Above and beyond that too, humans are naturally paranoid animals, and bad at seeing probabilities when assessing personal risk.
If a child that looks like yours is abducted, it makes you more paranoid that your child will be abducted; even if that other child was halfway around the world; even if that child was abducted by a relative; etc., etc. Despite the fact that abductions are rare, and that they're even more rarely done by strangers, blah blah, the brain gloms onto the perceived danger and isn't very good at letting go of it.
>more extreme possibilities like 4chan/Reddit doxxings
I've actually had that happen to me. I was generally respected but had rather strong opinions on (relatively uncontroversial) subjects, so one day someone who didn't like me that much decided to go all internet detective on me and dug up various data about me, like my name, address, phone number, names of relatives, Facebook pictures... Up to that point I had been generally pseudonymous (though I had been a bit careless with my info - some domain whois data was my undoing, and while my Facebook account is shut up tight for strangers, this isn't the case for some of my less technical relatives).
Luckily enough it didn't turn into any abuse in real life, as most people thought the doxxing was a stupid move. Now I just get some idiots occasionally spamming my name and picture and insulting my family in front of me. It's easy enough to ignore, but it's also kind of sad that my pseudonymity is basically dead by this point. The genie is out of the bottle, and I can't really put it back unless I start completely over - which I just can't do. As a result, I tend to avoid talking about some controversial issues altogether, as I don't want to "taint" my name by saying something that could be perceived negatively in the future. There's also some things that I just feel rather uncomfortable to talk about with my name and info out there, like the doxxing itself, which is why I'm using a throwaway account for this post.
This seems pretty obvious to me. When you are working to build a positive reputation online you use your real name. When you are taking part in things you don't want associated with your reputation you use an alias.
You don't want to never use your real name. You want to be googleable, but you want it to be mostly positive.
The only account I have so far used my real name on is my stackexchange account so I can potentially use it in interviews to show I am active in the community and in my own learning.
I go by epochwolf online and I very much care about the reputation I have under this name. Somewhat by accident there is an entire group of people that only know me as "epoch" in real life. My reputation among those people is just as important as my reputation among people that know me professionally under my real name.
I do try to keep my professional and personal relationships separate which part of the reason I have a pseudonym. In a bit of irony my company uses github and I use my epochwolf account at work. The seperation is less important than it used to be but I will always be epochwolf online.
If things were that easy. The things you want to be associated with your name today might not be the things that you want to be associated with in 5, 10 or 20 years.
I use my real name and my first name is enough to find me. I probably don't fit the legal definition of "public figure," but everyone I work with and many other people, mostly in the field I work in, know who I am.
So I can't really avoid it. I'm not black, or gay, or Muslim, and I don't have non-mainstream political views compared to people I live and work with, so I'm lucky enough to not experience the negative effects of being obviously identifiable online.
I can definitely see why many people would prefer to be pseudonymous, and why maintaining multiple online personas is useful. But I can barely keep up with my blog and product pages on multiple social media, and I'm still learning how to best use those to my advantage.
A few years ago I tried to eliminate every possible trace of my real name online. It just doesn't work, there will always be something.
So I gave up. Now I just try and make sure there is an accurate representation of my personality, views, and so on associated with my real name, online. Hopefully this gives a bit of balance to my profile in case I miscommunicate something in the future.
I don't mind using my real name online because it is stupidly generic (Daniel Levin). If someone wanted to identify me, my name wouldn't be of much help to them. This is interesting because my real name is less useful in being identifying than a screen name used on multiple websites
I believe there was an article a while back that showed it was trivial to track a person by their use of vocabulary and grammar style.
But it's probably still better to use a pseudonym, even if only to deter the laziest of tracking.
I use my real name, and I quite frankly do not care if I get passed up for a job or something like that because of something I said online. I'm pretty sure any employer I would actually want to work for wouldn't care about me ranting about the NSA or something (might even get me a job, who knows). That being said, I do not say anything online that I wouldn't in real life (except perhaps on IRC channels where I use a nick) and it's seemed to work out ok so far.
[Accessing anaphor's HN user profile, which is basically blank]
Your real name is anaphor? I have disclosed on my HN user profile what my birth-certificate name is, and I have put up links to a bare-bones explanation of where my screen name (which did not originate on this forum) came from. Eventually, I think, all roads from my various screen names, some of which were mandatory, and others customary, in the online forums where they originated will lead to my real name. I have always used my real name on every page of my personal website, since 1995.
You don't use your real name then. You use a nick here and your first name only, as far as I can tell, on SO. Whilst the information there makes you traceable it's still not 'using your real name'; unless your full legal name is only 3 letters?
Any idea whether I can make SE show the "real name" field to anyone? I didn't realize that wasn't visible, and I don't see a setting anywhere to change that.
We lucky that we currently live in a time where there are less programmers then there are job for them, but that situation could be reversed in a decade from now.
For me, I find myself scared to participate using my real name. I think it's mostly a lack of self-confidence. I actually just registered this username last night, hoping that anonymity will help me get over my fear of posting. Maybe in the future I'll be more comfortable/confident and use my real name, but for now, an anonymous username will be my crutch.
I am prejudiced against people who use their real names when the website allows them to use a nickname: I automatically assume they will be uninteresting, their opinions sheepish and will always avoid confrontation or controversial ideas. I feel like they are always talking in the presence of their mother.
Not sure it's "everyone." In the US, about 58% of male babies are circumcised, and I'm sure the rate among families who are not recent immigrants is much higher.
Speak for yourself; here in America only a minority of people are really concerned about male circumcision and it is widely performed for religious and non-religious reasons. You are also ignoring the very large population of Muslims in the world, who are generally not opposed to circumcision.
One of the great things about the Internet, though, is that you are free to express a minority point of view without having to wait for some editor to approve of it. This is true regardless of whether or not you choose to post under your real name.
If I used my real name, you would probably guess I m uncircumcised, and unlikely to support genital mutilation. Glad I didn't, though, I learned an interesting thing about you and your beliefs.
The problem is that circumcision isn't a heated controversy, it's not like someone is going to dox you because you made an argument against it.
Here's a few arguments off the top of my head that someone might dox you for:
-Whether or not feminism is the cause of the recent emasculation of men
-Whether or not Israel is committing crimes against humanity in Gaza and against the Palestinians
-Whether or not transexual persons should be medically referred to as their original gender or new gender.
-Whether or not affirmative action should exist.
Pretty much any debate that is emotionally charged has the potential for people to try to screw with your real life over it, circumcision is not one of them.
I would far prefer discuss such charged topics in places where people have incentives to choose their words carefully. It's fine to have a controversial opinion, but without checks and balances on behavior, you don't have a discussion, you just have a bunch of racists spouting their vile views.
>The problem is that circumcision isn't a heated controversy
On Reddit(I don't know about anywhere else because I've never seen it discussed anywhere else), there seems to be alot of assumptions made about people who argue against it, specifically that they are MRA extremists who are misogynistic.
I have to agree with you. The beauty of anonymity is that people speak their minds, unrestrained from social impetus. Although anonymity is a double edged sword, I believe that the blunt, raw truth is much more valuable than a veiled, politically correct, socially acceptable response. This is one of the reasons why 4chan is such a popular place, everyone speaks their mind without having to worry about karma/internet points or how their opinions will impact their real lives from doxxing and such.
I maintain two identities on most social sites/chatrooms/hn; one that uses my online alias, and one that uses an abbreviation of my name (bsamuels). Whenever I feel like voicing an uncomfortable or controversial opinion, I use the online alias.
I'm happy to use my real name, and if you are talking shit I am happy to tell you. I assume pretty much the same as you, but the other way around: If people use their real name and confront me I am a lot more likely to take on board what they are saying, than someone who uses a pseudonym. I assume they are just trying to be confrontational and start an argument.
Edit: Actually it depends on the community. I would not use my real name on 4chan, but here and Reddit I am happy to. I don't get involved with any communities where there is a risk of really pissing someone or law enforcement off however.
Saying controversial things while hiding behind anonymity isn't exactly what I call brave. People are People, meaning not being anonymous has a modulating influence on people's behavior and that is a good thing.
If you doubt this just descend into the comment section of any news article to see the vile stuff people post online because they are anonymous.
You are confusing controversy with confrontation, rudeness and hate. Also, the inanity of comments has more to do with the reach of the audience rather than anonimity. The anonymous trolling in news sites is not worse than the author-signed YouTube comments. And we all know the best comments are here on HN, anonymously.
That's an interesting view - I comprehensively use my real name online, and I don't think it causes me to avoid confrontation or controversy, though it probably does make me consider what I'm saying to a greater degree. Along the lines of "hey, maybe I should think about my opinion of this topic in greater detail, rather than going on a rant," which I might otherwise do.
I have to argue against that. Many people want to make themselves heard and become known for their opinions, so they attach their real name to their work.
How do you know they're using their real name? Do you research it or do you assume that people using what looks like a real sounding name are using their own real [legal] name?
On the surface, yes, I suppose if you use your real name you may be tempted to tone down your opinion a bit (presumably the reason why youtube switched to G+ commenting with real names, etc).
But on HN, I've actually seen the exact opposite - people with handles derived from their real names seem to make more serious, well thought-out comments. I don't know about "most controversial", but certainly the most useful, which to me is more important. (I have a made-up handle, so I'm not one of these people :)
You'll see this reflected on the HN leader board as well; I assume that - like any online discussion board - made-up handles are the majority on HN, but real-name based handles figure quite prominently there. Not sure why.
> real-name based handles figure quite prominently
My ( controversial) idea is that people often upvote persons, not their opinions. Many of HN top have curated well known internet personas with separate blogs (either by their real names or nicknames). A familiar handle (either real or famous nick) is downvoted less frequently than an anonymous handle.
HN is technical. You yourself put "most controversial" in quotes. Worst case, you are wrong. It's measurable and it's done. Try saying controversial things about politics or social or theological issues, and you can get killed, mobbed, thrown to jail, your life totally destroyed. "Reputation" for technical things is nice. "Reputation" on political things can be "the 10th anniversary since his execution".
This assumes the purpose of the internet is trolling and confrontation. If you feel like my mom is watching us talk about Scala programming, the only relevance is she'd be bored out of her skull (its not her kinda thing)
It's a good idea to have some information online for your real name that you control. Otherwise eventually someone else will write some things about you that you can't control and that will be what comes up first in Google.
I stand firmly behind everything I do on the internet or otherwise knowing full well the capability for people to take things out of context or cherry pick.
Having it out there allows for a full audit of what I am doing on the back end. On the front end, it ensures I am thinking through what I am writing so that I can ensure it reflects what I intend it to even if it is not all positive.
The issue is when people will go on a witch hunt for something you say without being compassionate and helping you understand their or a different point of view - whether it is something you said in the present moment or well in the past.
It never used to be but it's rapidly getting to be, I use mine out of habit but I'm slowly changing to gibberish. Then again at some point it's changed from a "nickname" to "username" to "your real name".
In the olden days using numbers in a username was considered bad now it's becoming as necessarily as using a mix of characters in a password.
I don't use my real name online in most cases. Being pseudoanonymous allows for more free flowing casual conversation[1]. Much like two buddies sitting in a bar allows for different conversational avenues than the same two buddies chatting in a crowded office.
I have no real reason to curate an online identity or reputation and I don't want my online words to be only of a "professional" nature.
Also, I have no trouble being civil. Even if I was inspired to be a jerk, accountability need not be tethered to identity.
I use my real name everywhere online. The reasons why are pretty straightforward:
1. It reminds me to be civil and think before I post.
2. It makes it easier for other people reach out to me based on things I've posted (I have a fairly unique name).
Pseudonyms are relatively easy to 'decode'. If I wrote something particularly dumb, offensive, or stupid, and someone wanted to pin that on me, I'm sure they could given enough time and effort.
One thing that fascinates me is Linkedin Groups/Forums. People post the most outrageously sexist opinions or have kindergarten level fights with other people there; all connected to their real names. It is not as bad as Youtube comments but it is not clear how all these people don't have a filter. I guess only time will tell if Youtube comments get moderated due to the real name connection.
However, the most effective way to learn is to make bold statements based on your current level of understanding and wait for people to correct your errors. Sometimes you even need to play devil's advocate to properly model the information in your head.
Our great folly as humans is in assuming statements connected to names actually mean anything.
Use of real name isn't problematic as long as you don't have unpopular opinions. I'm not foolish enough into thinking that the work world is like college when it comes to free expression. My employer wants to be popular in the market place, therefore they don't want to be associated with unpopular opinions.
If Gawker writes a hit piece on me because I held down an unpopular opinion in a discussion on feminism in tech I know I'm out of a job. I would likely be out of most jobs in Silicon Valley.
Absolutely! OP comment sounds a lot like the "I use my real name, because I have nothing to hide" argument.
As long as your viewpoints are completely aligned with the mainstream opinions held in your extended peer group, you have nothing to loose using your real name.
But in all other cases you never know when some HR minion thinks he became a data mining genius because he dug up some comment you made 10 years ago on a random message board,
Minor correction, aligned to mainstream opinions for all time. Imagine how weird it must be for some old people to have to go from public hatred of minority group X to public idolization of the same group. And vice versa of course.
"Unpopular opinions" can change. There was a time when sexist, racist, and homophobic ribbing were de rigeur in society, entertainment, and business. They still are in some political circles. You might have friends, neighbors, or associates who turn out to be murderers, inside traders, political rebels, questioned for terrorism, whistleblowers, accused of partner battering, or of immigration irregularities (all drawn from my direct personal experience). It wasn't so long ago that a prominent political figure was accused of "palling around with terrorists".
Moreover, with profiling tactics, implicit signals can be leaked of your preferences and habits (isn't that precisely what all the heavy marketing support of all these "social" sites is about?). Subject of a current HN item:
Out of most jobs in the Valley? Is it really that bad? I still have the illusion that being an IT professional gives you more freedom of having an 'unpopular' opinion than any other industry. As long as your work is in high demand, that is.
Sociological studies bla, bla - TL;DR: You are more civil when people recognize you. You are more likely to act in the "interest of the group" when you sign stuff with your real name. At least that's the state of the research to my best knowledge.
This paper [0] compares newspaper comment systems that allow anonymity against others that require names, and finds more civil discourse on named discussions - the assumption seems to be that people are not picking their newspaper site based on comments protocol, therefore the anonymity is causing the uncivility. There is surprisingly little research visible when I googled just now.
"I don't kill people because I'd get caught" is probably true for most people.
If you lived in a society where killing didn't tend to be punished, you'd probably kill. Because if you didn't you'd be dead. Don't underestimate people's tendency to adapt to their environments.
I get what you are saying, but I think if you look at it in the big picture, sites which require real names (and sites that otherwise reward you for gaining a positive reputation over the long term) tend not to degenerate into cesspools of ugliness. It may be partly because the non-civil go elsewhere, but I think it also is because it encourages civility from those who are there.
Why do you care how someone achieves a positive result? If we're all being nice to each other because of the fear of punishment, I think the system is working as intended! If I'm not being killed, I'm happy!
>1. It reminds me to be civil and think before I post.
This may be true but it inevitably makes you dishonest. There are things that you believe or feel about certain things that you will never post. These omissions equate to a lack of honesty (you are not voicing your full opinions)
The internet is one of the last places where people can say what they feel. Sure some are jerks about things but these people are just being honest. They really are jerks. They might hold it all inside when offline but this is because of sensitivity conditioning and political correctness. These things only hide the true problems of our society. Do you think that because racism is repressed by PC and an agenda of a few in places of power to impose swift public embarrassment and isolation those honest enough to express their opinion that it does not exist?
If anything, this exacerbates the problem. It is funny that many want to legalize drugs so that those with drug problems can come forward and receive help without being demonized, yet those same people just want people dealing with hatred and bigotry problems just to keep it inside until it eats them (and their lineage) alive.
>2. It makes it easier for other people reach out to me based on things I've posted (I have a fairly unique name).
This simply is not true. What forum or internet based messaging means today does not have email, twitter, Facebook ETC. where anyone who just read your info can contact you?
> This may be true but it inevitably makes you dishonest. There are things that you believe or feel about certain things that you will never post. These omissions equate to a lack of honesty (you are not voicing your full opinions)
Disagree. I wouldn't post them anyway given that I assume a sufficiently dedicated person could link them back to me one way or another...And we're always dishonest somehow or another. Only a person dishonest to themselves would ever claim they're entirely honest online.
> This simply is not true. What forum or internet based messaging means today does not have email, twitter, Facebook ETC. where anyone who just read your info can contact you?
My point is that the ability exists to set contact info (as you have on Hacker News). This can include your real name or not. The contact info can include identifiable info or be some anonymous email account. The choice is left up to you.
I'm currently running a survey to better understand perceptions and attitudes towards anonymous online communication. Feel free to contribute -- every response is greatly appreciated.
Everyone should just use some form of a Pig Latin user name. Maybe then add some spice to the name as well.
This way we can reasonably claim our good reputation if the result of our actions turns out ok, but if not we can borrow from each other and all get second chances.
I'm pretty sure Pig Latin will fool the NSA too. :)
I choose to use my real name on many services, it really doesn't bother me because I feel that I should be able to stand behind my words wherever I say them. It's also a unique name and usually not taken.
I will admit there have been times I have been hesitant to say or post things, but more often than not it's fine. If there is something I don't want associated with me, I use an alternate account.
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[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 211 ms ] threadI'll say this about the new ways: I'm extremely glad that I didn't have my teenage years documented and archived. Dodged that bullet!
Internet .2 - Finger is no longer used, malicious users and hackers exist, social networks become very personal (Usenet, IRC) pseudonyms make sense, not just for privacy but to usher in a new sentiment of power and respect through anonymity. Computer security is very low.
Internet .3 - WWW becomes a thing, people still use pseudonyms and generally don't trust anything for good measure, computer security is very low.
Internet .4 - WWW evolves for the masses/commerce and social networks re-emerge on the web (Myspace, Facebook), people start to use real names everywhere. - A new generation exists that was never on the internet before .4. Computer security is much better.
Internet .5 - Pseudonyms don't become popular again thanks to the general ignorance of the tube watchers.
..not entirely accurate..just my 2C
Enough for your friends (and early on everyone knew everyone) to know who you were. But comprehensive archives weren't generally available (there's a reason kibo was so notable).
Also, I find your story of rules interesting. When I was first introduced to the internet (when I was about 7 years old, in school), the one "rule" I remember being told to us over and over again, by parents, by teachers, by anyone in authority was:
That was the "one rule" of my day, and of the people I knew. It's one of the things that made switching to my real name easy, since I didn't have to change how I wrote.edit: ah, WSU I see.
It's a great mix of professors who have tremendous experience in academia and industry, as well as a small enough campus to allow random undergrads to spend tons of time working with and learning from them. I feel like it's a serious hidden gem for those looking to learn CS.
Even today, I treat everything I post to the Internet as public. Even on MyGoogleFaceSpacePlusBook, I don't bother with privacy settings, because of 1) the above, where I treat everything I put on the Internet as public, and 2) the people who run MyGoogleFaceSpacePlusBook really love mucking with the default privacy setttings.
It also depends where I am posting, and whether I want to "own" what I say on that particular site. It's nice when my real-life compatriots don't necessarily know every darn thing I say or do online. They could find out if they really wanted to, of course.
This made me much less reluctant to use my real name later on.
However, just as my real name, my pseudonym also stuck and I try to get it whenever I sign up for a service. That way I'm twitter.com/pilif, github.com/pilif, even facebook.com/pilif, though I don't use that.
Unfortunately, on G+, I can't be /pilif. I have to be pilif123459 or whatever. Too bad.
In the late nineties and early 00s there ware huge wars between those who campaigned for pseudonyms (usually labelled "net terrorists", although honestly most of them really were trolls) and those who insisted on real names (labelled as "Blockwart": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockleiter).
Of course it's immaterial now. Most of the "net terrorists" left, many of the "blockwarts" mellowed, and in the end Usenet is dead and both sides tolerate much more than they used to, just happy to see a few more postings.
I settled on this after going through lots of different nicknames in the 90s, when the internet was a very different place.
With a nickname, you always have the option of associating it with your real identity at a later date if you so choose.
You can usually follow a chain of pseudonyms back through time to get to the early embarrassing posts.
Meatball wiki changed my mind about real name posting. First I thought "always use an obvious nym", then "always use a realistic, but false, name". Now I just post using me real name on a few places, and a bunch of nyms (realistic and otherwise) in other places.
My writing (especially my appalling use of punctuation) is distinctive. I think it'd be easy enough to tell if a post is mine or not by counting the weird commas.
Perhaps privacy advocates need some method of making writing more anonymous? Lower-case everything, convert full-stops to new lines, strip out all out punctuation?
It's very much an NP problem.
My real fear isn't having my more rant-y posts associated with my IRL life, but more extreme possibilities like 4chan/Reddit doxxings and abuse.
I also no longer use the same handle as when I was a kid, so I've got that going for me.
If a child that looks like yours is abducted, it makes you more paranoid that your child will be abducted; even if that other child was halfway around the world; even if that child was abducted by a relative; etc., etc. Despite the fact that abductions are rare, and that they're even more rarely done by strangers, blah blah, the brain gloms onto the perceived danger and isn't very good at letting go of it.
I've actually had that happen to me. I was generally respected but had rather strong opinions on (relatively uncontroversial) subjects, so one day someone who didn't like me that much decided to go all internet detective on me and dug up various data about me, like my name, address, phone number, names of relatives, Facebook pictures... Up to that point I had been generally pseudonymous (though I had been a bit careless with my info - some domain whois data was my undoing, and while my Facebook account is shut up tight for strangers, this isn't the case for some of my less technical relatives).
Luckily enough it didn't turn into any abuse in real life, as most people thought the doxxing was a stupid move. Now I just get some idiots occasionally spamming my name and picture and insulting my family in front of me. It's easy enough to ignore, but it's also kind of sad that my pseudonymity is basically dead by this point. The genie is out of the bottle, and I can't really put it back unless I start completely over - which I just can't do. As a result, I tend to avoid talking about some controversial issues altogether, as I don't want to "taint" my name by saying something that could be perceived negatively in the future. There's also some things that I just feel rather uncomfortable to talk about with my name and info out there, like the doxxing itself, which is why I'm using a throwaway account for this post.
You don't want to never use your real name. You want to be googleable, but you want it to be mostly positive.
I do try to keep my professional and personal relationships separate which part of the reason I have a pseudonym. In a bit of irony my company uses github and I use my epochwolf account at work. The seperation is less important than it used to be but I will always be epochwolf online.
I do not want to be Googleable.
So I can't really avoid it. I'm not black, or gay, or Muslim, and I don't have non-mainstream political views compared to people I live and work with, so I'm lucky enough to not experience the negative effects of being obviously identifiable online.
I can definitely see why many people would prefer to be pseudonymous, and why maintaining multiple online personas is useful. But I can barely keep up with my blog and product pages on multiple social media, and I'm still learning how to best use those to my advantage.
So I gave up. Now I just try and make sure there is an accurate representation of my personality, views, and so on associated with my real name, online. Hopefully this gives a bit of balance to my profile in case I miscommunicate something in the future.
It firmly roots in my mind that my words here will be seen as words from my person. That's a good thing.
[Accessing anaphor's HN user profile, which is basically blank]
Your real name is anaphor? I have disclosed on my HN user profile what my birth-certificate name is, and I have put up links to a bare-bones explanation of where my screen name (which did not originate on this forum) came from. Eventually, I think, all roads from my various screen names, some of which were mandatory, and others customary, in the online forums where they originated will lead to my real name. I have always used my real name on every page of my personal website, since 1995.
But do you say things in real life that you wouldn't online?
That's because you can still find other jobs. That may not be true for ever.
One of the great things about the Internet, though, is that you are free to express a minority point of view without having to wait for some editor to approve of it. This is true regardless of whether or not you choose to post under your real name.
Here's a few arguments off the top of my head that someone might dox you for:
-Whether or not feminism is the cause of the recent emasculation of men
-Whether or not Israel is committing crimes against humanity in Gaza and against the Palestinians
-Whether or not transexual persons should be medically referred to as their original gender or new gender.
-Whether or not affirmative action should exist.
Pretty much any debate that is emotionally charged has the potential for people to try to screw with your real life over it, circumcision is not one of them.
So you are the one that will wisely choose which opinions are "vile", and blacklist them?
On Reddit(I don't know about anywhere else because I've never seen it discussed anywhere else), there seems to be alot of assumptions made about people who argue against it, specifically that they are MRA extremists who are misogynistic.
I maintain two identities on most social sites/chatrooms/hn; one that uses my online alias, and one that uses an abbreviation of my name (bsamuels). Whenever I feel like voicing an uncomfortable or controversial opinion, I use the online alias.
Edit: Actually it depends on the community. I would not use my real name on 4chan, but here and Reddit I am happy to. I don't get involved with any communities where there is a risk of really pissing someone or law enforcement off however.
If you doubt this just descend into the comment section of any news article to see the vile stuff people post online because they are anonymous.
Simon Hibbs
But on HN, I've actually seen the exact opposite - people with handles derived from their real names seem to make more serious, well thought-out comments. I don't know about "most controversial", but certainly the most useful, which to me is more important. (I have a made-up handle, so I'm not one of these people :)
You'll see this reflected on the HN leader board as well; I assume that - like any online discussion board - made-up handles are the majority on HN, but real-name based handles figure quite prominently there. Not sure why.
My ( controversial) idea is that people often upvote persons, not their opinions. Many of HN top have curated well known internet personas with separate blogs (either by their real names or nicknames). A familiar handle (either real or famous nick) is downvoted less frequently than an anonymous handle.
Having it out there allows for a full audit of what I am doing on the back end. On the front end, it ensures I am thinking through what I am writing so that I can ensure it reflects what I intend it to even if it is not all positive.
In the olden days using numbers in a username was considered bad now it's becoming as necessarily as using a mix of characters in a password.
I have no real reason to curate an online identity or reputation and I don't want my online words to be only of a "professional" nature.
Also, I have no trouble being civil. Even if I was inspired to be a jerk, accountability need not be tethered to identity.
1: https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2008/11/the_future_of...
1. It reminds me to be civil and think before I post.
2. It makes it easier for other people reach out to me based on things I've posted (I have a fairly unique name).
Pseudonyms are relatively easy to 'decode'. If I wrote something particularly dumb, offensive, or stupid, and someone wanted to pin that on me, I'm sure they could given enough time and effort.
Our great folly as humans is in assuming statements connected to names actually mean anything.
…oh, I see what you did there ;)
If Gawker writes a hit piece on me because I held down an unpopular opinion in a discussion on feminism in tech I know I'm out of a job. I would likely be out of most jobs in Silicon Valley.
As long as your viewpoints are completely aligned with the mainstream opinions held in your extended peer group, you have nothing to loose using your real name.
But in all other cases you never know when some HR minion thinks he became a data mining genius because he dug up some comment you made 10 years ago on a random message board,
Of course I do, everyone does. I'm just very thoughtful about never posting it online ;)
Also, pet peeve: it's "lose", not "loose".
Moreover, with profiling tactics, implicit signals can be leaked of your preferences and habits (isn't that precisely what all the heavy marketing support of all these "social" sites is about?). Subject of a current HN item:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6871033
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/08/opinion/sunday/shameful-pr...
That sounds very much like "I don't kill people because I'd get caught". Why can't you be civil (whatever that means) and think just because?
in fact causation could be the other way around. those who behave well are more likely to sign with their real name.
[0] https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/handle/1794/12420
If you lived in a society where killing didn't tend to be punished, you'd probably kill. Because if you didn't you'd be dead. Don't underestimate people's tendency to adapt to their environments.
I get what you are saying, but I think if you look at it in the big picture, sites which require real names (and sites that otherwise reward you for gaining a positive reputation over the long term) tend not to degenerate into cesspools of ugliness. It may be partly because the non-civil go elsewhere, but I think it also is because it encourages civility from those who are there.
This may be true but it inevitably makes you dishonest. There are things that you believe or feel about certain things that you will never post. These omissions equate to a lack of honesty (you are not voicing your full opinions)
The internet is one of the last places where people can say what they feel. Sure some are jerks about things but these people are just being honest. They really are jerks. They might hold it all inside when offline but this is because of sensitivity conditioning and political correctness. These things only hide the true problems of our society. Do you think that because racism is repressed by PC and an agenda of a few in places of power to impose swift public embarrassment and isolation those honest enough to express their opinion that it does not exist?
If anything, this exacerbates the problem. It is funny that many want to legalize drugs so that those with drug problems can come forward and receive help without being demonized, yet those same people just want people dealing with hatred and bigotry problems just to keep it inside until it eats them (and their lineage) alive.
>2. It makes it easier for other people reach out to me based on things I've posted (I have a fairly unique name).
This simply is not true. What forum or internet based messaging means today does not have email, twitter, Facebook ETC. where anyone who just read your info can contact you?
Disagree. I wouldn't post them anyway given that I assume a sufficiently dedicated person could link them back to me one way or another...And we're always dishonest somehow or another. Only a person dishonest to themselves would ever claim they're entirely honest online.
> This simply is not true. What forum or internet based messaging means today does not have email, twitter, Facebook ETC. where anyone who just read your info can contact you?
Hacker News.
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/onlineanonymity
1. Builds a brand of me. 2. Following from #1, it reminds me to post things I want to be read that I would want my family and myself to be proud of.
This way we can reasonably claim our good reputation if the result of our actions turns out ok, but if not we can borrow from each other and all get second chances.
I'm pretty sure Pig Latin will fool the NSA too. :)
I will admit there have been times I have been hesitant to say or post things, but more often than not it's fine. If there is something I don't want associated with me, I use an alternate account.