Poll: How many generations removed from immigration are you?

41 points by jballanc ↗ HN
Today there was another article about immigration in the US, H1-Bs, immigrants as the driving force for innovation, etc., etc. This has been standard fare in programmer discussions, it seems, for a few years now. Well, I figure that HN represents a fairly diverse sample of the upper echelon of programming and idea generation, so why not put the question to the test?

Here's how it works: Take the shortest path from you to one of your ancestors that was "off the boat", so to speak. For example, my mother was born overseas, so I'd be 1 generation removed. If you are, yourself, an immigrant, then you'd be 0 generations removed.

I'm curious to see how this turns out...

69 comments

[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 99.4 ms ] thread
Enough that I don't know.

I honestly can't name a relative that was definitely descended from an immigrant. I do have an approximate idea of my overall immigrant make-up though.

I'm not in the USA - does that mean you don't care? My family is still entirely in my country of origin, and they are at least four generations there. I am the first in my family to move to another country, hence I am an immigrant. I run two companies, employ 25 people, and don't have a visa.

To avoid spoiling your USA-centric poll I haven't ticked an option.

I already accidentally spoiled it. I voted for three generations, but I'm Canadian.
Neither Am I, but my grandmother was German. The poll doesn't have to be as USA-centric as you make it :-)

On a sidenote, At her funeral a few years ago I found out that in 1908, at the age of 11, she was put on a train from Germany to Denmark with noone to pick her up at the other end. Her German family was in extreme poverty and gave her a one way ticket to another country, hoping that someone would pick her up and care for her when she arrived in Denmark.

Noone did, so for the first few years she took care of herself, and was eventually adopted by a farming family where she got work. She grew up, had lots of kids, was a great mother and granny and was always there for people in hardship. Guess she knew what real hardship was.

Stoic as she was she never told anyone aboout it, and it was only revealed at her funeral. She lived to be 93.

Tough lady.

Thanks for the great story. I have many like that (but I'll spare you).

My grandparents endured hardships I can't even imagine. They had nothing. Absolutely nothing. And they were 4 of the happiest people I ever met. Go figure.

Happiness doesn't correlate with material wealth.

We often forget how much we have, how safe our lives are and how little we have to fear. When you hear stories like these, and there are many if you ask old folks that have been through wars famines and worse, you realise that happiness and living a full life is a mental exercise that is not dependant upon material wealth. That's why I wrote the post - I think it's worth saying.

My grandmother was as happy an caring as one could possibly be, and it seems that your experience is the same. And they went through stuff we couldn't even dream of.

Not entirely sure how you deem this poll to be US-centric. It's the result of a discussion on immigration relating to innovation in the US, sure, but I understand the poll to be more of a look at whether that applies to the Hacker News community.

My point is, vote! It's an interesting poll.

My point is that to me, and perhaps to many who don't live in the USA, the entire question feels USA-centric. There's a significant difference between being a first generation Bulgaria->Sweden immigrant and being a first generation Germany->Netherlands immigrant. It's just fundamentally different, and I think a poll like this demonstrates a non-understanding of that.

The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures. To a western European this kind of thinking seems very parochial.

The very idea of asking this kind of question makes it seems USA-centric, because the USA has such a strong self-identification as the land of opportunity for immigrants. The discussions about H1-B visas indicates the schizoid nature of that identity.

I've heard it said that the difference between Britain and the USA is that the British think 100 miles is a long way, while Americans think 100 years is a long time.

Again, all of this is my impression, but you did ask.

There are a number of countries besides the US that self-identify as "built by immigrants". Canada, Israel, and Australia come to mind. And in the United States too, there is a world of difference between being a Mexican, Dutch or Canadian immigrant. Like many big life changes, immigration is lived differently by everyone, but everyone will tend to look at the broad phenomenon through the lens of their own experience. Spoken as an Eastern European who moved to the states in childhood...
From what my wife tells me, you should add Turkey to that list too.
The thinking in the USA seems to be that either you're an immigrant or you're not, with no distinction between the variation of cultures.

That's the ideal in some of the USA, but it's by no means the historical norm. The traditional thinking in the USA has always been that either you're an immigrant from Awesome Culture X or Y, and therefore the salt of the earth, or you're from Despised Culture Z or Q, and therefore a dangerous foreign influence that needs to be controlled.

The darkly amusing feature of our culture is the routine reshuffling of the categories.

It is USA centric. But the value of the exercise, to me, is to appreciate how close to part of my family's immigration I am. I am a second generation immigrant. This is important to keep in mind when we talk about American immigration policies.
I don't think this has to be USA-centric. Immigrating is not a small decision, or an easy one! It would be interesting to know if there is a correlation between the willingness to do this and general creativity/ambition. I guess the flip-side would be to ask the question: Do people that stay in one place tend to become less creative or ambitious?
Ticked two - Dad came from Ireland to Australia, I was born in Australia but am now living in the UK, not sure if I'll stay here though...
I immigrated to the U.S. in my teens. Just moved to Australia 20 days ago :-P

I think I am done "immigrating" in the classic now. Now I am just another yank living abroad :-)

Aye, I'd be the same as RiderOfGiraffes. The "How many generations from immigration" thing won't make any sense for large numbers of HN readers, who are from the UK/IE/Continental Europe. If anything, the question here would be how many generations has it been since large parts of your family emigrated
I voted for two generations, but I'm British.
0 - moved to NJ from London when I was 7. Before that, I think we had been in England for 5-6 generations (longer in some branches).
Most of my clan seem to have come over either in the 17th century (the last name was imported then), or were German engineers who immigrated in the 19th century. But it varies so much its hard to say exactly. I am very much a euromut. I wish I'd looked into it more while more of the earlier generations were still alive.

My grandfather on my father's side descended from a line of engineers through North Carolina (and was much smarter than me). My mother's side were mostly farmers until a couple generations ago.

Overall, its such a mix that it would be impossible to pin down what nations and tribes I am composed of, short of DNA analysis - which I have thought of doing - at https://www.23andme.com/ $400 is a bit out of my price range at the moment, though. Check out their UI, though - its amazing, and could be the future of more advanced interfaces in biotech. I look forward to doing this analysis some day though, and I'm excited what kind of variety I don't know about I'll find.

It would be fun to follow up such an analysis with a round the world trip to get in touch with the cultural roots of one's DNA :)

Don't know the exact number of generations. The family on my mothers side immigrated to Denmark from Holland in the 17th century
∞ generations (I don't live in the United States of America)
But if one of your kids emigrates to the US, you'll be -1, so it's probably better to say undefined at this point.
Germanic people have been living here (The Netherlands) since 250 BC. God only knows whether I'm a direct descendant from those settlers. My sister once did some geneanological research for a high school project, so I can definitely account for 6 generations, but it may well be a 100.
(comment deleted)
moved from germany to new zealand some years ago - have a small company now and love my life again - think i'll stay :-)
Because Israel is a pretty young country most people living here are <= 2nd generation immigrants. I'm a 4th generation immigrant. 5 generations ago my family immigrated from Russia and created at least a couple of cities, which still exist today.
I was born in Dublin, Ireland and moved to Canada when I was 6, and I'm a Canadian citizen. So I guess that makes my answer 0. However I've since lived and/or worked in Pakistan, Spain, the UK and the US. Add to that that my grandmother was actually American, and "reverse-immigrated" back to Ireland, and the word "immigrant" doesn't quite capture it.
4th generation American... but I'm living abroad :)
Picked 5 or more, since infinity is most definitely more than 5.
Two generations removed from my family's country of origin (France) and now an immigrant again (Japan) - not sure if it's permanent though.
My immediate family has migrated thrice in the last 15 years and it is not over yet. As long as I can remember, we always had plans to move somewhere else. I plan to end it when I reach the northern part of the Western Hemisphere (hopefully excluding Western Africa and South/Central Americas :)).
I'm a 17-year-old student that, at the age of 5, immigrated from the People's Republic of China to the United States (originally settling in the suburbs of west Philadelphia (not born, but raised) then New Jersey and lastly Massachusetts.)

I'm also an entrepreneur (on my 8th) and extremely thankful for the opportunities that the US presents (makes everything on http://markbao.com possible.) Entrepreneurship in China probably isn't as bad as, say, North Korea, but definitely appreciate all the opportunities here. Reading that article, it's definitely true.

Though I can't say that other places don't have the same opportunities, since I have no prior experience elsewhere.

One grandfather was born in Sligo, Ireland.

The other side of the family is related to Miles Standish's English family

Born in US. Family lived as expatriates in Central America for 20 years, so I was raised in Honduras and Costa Rica. We returned to the US when I was 13.
While I don't live in the US, I am an immigrant to the United Kingdom (an EU citizen, so not even a real immigrant since I took the shortcuts and my home country is two hours away from Heathrow Airport)
Of course I have multiple ancestral lines. (And my wife is a first-generation immigrant, born overseas, so my children choose the "1 generation" answer, even though I chose the "3 generations" answer.) Some of my ancestors arrived in the United States during the 1600s, and most were living in my current state of residence well before it became a state. But others arrived more recently. Not quite half of my ancestors came from the two European countries that lost the biggest percentages of their populations to emigration--Ireland and Norway--because they were dirt poor. But just more than half my ancestors were fairly well off in Europe, and came to America, in some cases as part of organized groups that formed "colonies" here in the 1800s, because they desired more freedom than their home countries provided, even though they were prospering in those home countries.

My wife grew up in another country, and one of my children was born there during a subsequent period of residence there (but has only a claim to United States citizenship by facts of birth), so I am familiar with current immigrant communities. The United States still provides a lot of opportunities that are less abundant in other countries. And immigrants by virtue of having lived in two cultures usually arrive in the United States full of fresh ideas that result in their having a more creative approach to living here when they get here.

Francis arrived in "America" in 1639, with his son, Caleb.

Francis Caleb Abraham Nathan Daniel Isaac Isaac Jr. Hanford George Hanford Basil George me

Which makes me 10 generations removed on my father's side. 44 points plus the bonus.

My mother's side is murkier, but extends back to the mid-1700s, perhaps 7 generations removed. Again 44 points.

Isn't that 11 generations?
That's awesome. Is this obsession (not meant in a bad way) with generational lines typical of Americans? I'm Belgian; I don't think I personally know anyone who knows the name of a forefather 4 generations back.
The shortest path would be my maternal grandmother, who came to the United States from Australia after WWII. The longest path (on my maternal grandfather's side) goes back to before the Revolution.
13. My 10(great) grandfather was John Alden and came over on the Mayflower. I think I did the math right...