Tell HN: How we bootstrapped to the #1 rated mattress on Amazon.com

462 points by johmas ↗ HN
About 12 months ago we founded a bed company called Tuft & Needle. The HN community has been a great source of inspiration/education and we're proud to share our progress. We recently reached the #1 "Top Rated" rank in Mattresses and #2 in Furniture on Amazon.com.

Website: https://www.tuftandneedle.com/ Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/gp/top-rated/home-garden/3732961/

Problem: Painful shopping experience and extremely high margins in the mattress industry.

Solution: We make a good bed without any gimmicks. It is comfortable, safe and attractive without falsely advertised features or fraudulent discounts.

Business: We launched with a MVP and a simple landing page to test our ideas. Then about 4 months ago, we listed on Amazon and it's caught up to be a significant sales channel on its own. In the last quarter we've had 100% month-over-month growth. We don't spend on advertising, and more than half our sales are from word-of-mouth referrals and social media.

Technical: We take a pragmatic approach with everything including the storefront, sales tools, inventory tracking and fulfillment processes. We use 3rd-party services for payments (Stripe), bitcoin (Coinbase), shipping labels (EasyPost), CRM (Intercom), etc. Stack: Rails+AngularJS+Heroku.

Lesson Learned: Our primary success factor was starting with a rough draft. We didn't like our v1 much—an all cotton tufted mattress—but that didn't keep us from launching with it. This gave us a chance to experiment with problem/solution and to start collecting feedback right away. We had to do quite a few returns at first but we iterated constantly until our customer satisfaction was high enough for us to start getting referrals.

We would really value the community's opinion. We want to get as much feedback as possible to make sure we're going in the right direction.

JT & Daehee at T&N

276 comments

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Awesome. Very heart-warming to learn your story of success. Shows real businesses which solves a definite pain point (that has deep conviction) can be built without external capital.

All the best for your future.

I have to find that HN thread. When some post on Warby Parker was here in the homepage, someone commented that the next "too big margin" industry to disrupt should be the mattress one. Nice going!

One question - did you guys come from a pure technical background? or did you also have significant experience with the mattress industry before?

well done!

Daehee and I are both bay area software guys. Breaking into a new industry that we had zero domain knowledge definitely wasn't easy. It took us quite a while to break in. Most suppliers wouldn't return our phone calls and the ones who did just laughed us out of the room. We had to just keep searching until we found the right people who believed in us.
What advice do you have to someone who wants to do something similar, and in particular, what advice do you have on choosing a product to sell?
"Most suppliers wouldn't return our phone calls and the ones who did just laughed us out of the room. We had to just keep searching until we found the right people who believed in us."

Would LOVE to see a blog post detailing your experience here with what you learned (you know, in the time you have in between building mattresses, heh). The experience of being rejected multiple times is applicable across so many entrepreneurs journeys.

I almost wish I needed a mattress! I'm so tired of scammy furniture stores, and think this is definitely a potential growth market. I'd love if you could eventually make a recliner that doesn't suck, and even other furniture as well (I'd purchase a well-made anti-allergenic pillow today). The website is beautiful, and speaks to an elegant austerity that should be pretty popular these days. Even though the price point is shockingly low, I don't feel at all like it's not still a premium product. The little vignettes at the bottom show that you're part of the handcrafting "movement". The only thing I'd like to see (and maybe I'm missing it) is how it looks/dimensions when folded, and if it works in a murphy bed. Happy for your success thus far, and wish you the best!
We really appreciate it. Thank you
Now I'm curious about the mattress industry. I have always wondered why mattresses need salesmen and dedicated stores.
I definitely want to try a mattress and see how it feels before I buy it. Especially if it's going to cost a lot of money.
I'm reading this sentiment a lot on this thread. But it seems these guys are surely not the first to go against this trend and achieve success. Another example is Indochino (suits for men). Apple sold Macs strictly through their site way before they launched their stores.

The line of trying it in real life is getting spread pretty thin and soon will diminish against the power of social media and online customer reviews. Why would I need to try it myself when I can read tons of reviews online of people who bought the product? Surely a review will actually be more helpful than trying it myself since it could delineate facts that I may not of considered.

Really? I see that sentiment quite a lot, but I don't really think it holds. A mattress is definitely something I'd want to try before buying --- comfort, like taste, is such a subjective thing that no number of online reviews could really replace just lying on one for ten minutes.
It's roughly because of the inordinate amount of value we derive from furniture (so people aren't all that price sensitive).
Stores, I'd argue to physically try the mattress.

Salesmen, absolutely no reason.

Salesmen get a 10% commission on mattresses at Sears for example, so they have an incentive to push you to buy right away.
It is nice to lie down on the beds and get a sense of what you want. We went to a store for our son's mattress, but when it was time for our daughter to move out of the crib I made phone calls to a couple of big mattress suppliers. They purposefully have things like a Sleepy's specific model that only lasts a year, to make comparison shopping nearly impossible. On the phone they'll map a previous model to the current model for that year (and the big ones can do the same thing across competitors). Its much easier to call two different companies in the span of 30 minutes, when you know what you want already and get a better price than you would in the store, with less time and hassle.
did you have previous matress or furniture experience? How do you make a matress?
How did you identify the mattress industry as needing disruption? Did you have any personal experience in this space before?
No previous experience. It was sort of random how we came to mattresses. It came out of a discussion we were having on a lunch break in downtown Palo Alto. I was raging about a bed I had just bought for $3,000+ and wasn't satisfied with the comfort.

It started from there.

By reading the comments on Amazon your customer support is top notch - kudos for that. Almost made me buy until I checked that is no international delivery ;)

Question: why there are only renders on the website instead of real pictures of the product ?

That's a great question. We have used 3 different photographers since we first launched and haven't been able to get the quality we wanted. So to cut on our costs, and it was really expensive using photographers + studio + models, we moved to renderings. This allowed us to depict the product as it looks but move the camera around and get the right lighting.
Wasn't there an article the other day on how majority of home indoor/decor photos are actually 3d renderings. All to save cost.
I’m trying to understand what the difference is between your mattresses and say a regular mattress you buy from IKEA. Are these mattresses more like the futons laid on the floor that are very common in Japan and Korea?

Congratulations with the success on Amazon, and thanks for sharing and not posting blog spam!

Well our current mattress is more in line with a traditional mattress. We designed it to be compatible with the floor in addition to a frame, this is how we sort of broke into the market. With a niche angle.

Comparing to Ikea, our prices are only comparable because we cut our margins almost all the way down but the quality of material is very different. In other words, our bed won't sag after just 12 months.

Thank you for the kind words.

Are you saying that an Ikea mattress will sag after just 12 months, or are you actually just saying that yours won't and leaving it up to the reader to infer that an Ikea one will?
I apologize I wasn't more clear. I don't mean to come across as judgemental of Ikea. I haven't personally slept on one before other than just testing them out in the show room, but we do have quite a few customers who have replaced their Ikea bed with ours who have shared their feedback.
Why no king sized on Amazon?
We just released the king size and want to collect some feedback on it before posting to Amazon.

Amazon is really limiting when it comes to communication with our customers. This is a major pain point for us for that channel.

Any chance of a California King any time soon?
I need a Cal King too!
Another vote for Cal King from a tall guy!

Also, what frame do you show the bed with? It looks good together.

Awesome reviews! It's probably just me but I had to look around the page for awhile to find the "shop now" link to see the pricing. Maybe making it bigger would help.
Thank you for the feedback
I'm ALL for online shopping and the removal of brick-and-mortar stores where they're clearly not needed. I rarely shop anywhere but Amazon Prime these days.

But.

A mattress isn't a trivial purchase (not just in cost, which is what you're disrupting, but in what it does for you). You use a mattress for a large period of your life and it has a great effect on your health (either good or bad).

Being able to physically lie on a mattress in a store provides some value in regards to feeling how hard the mattress is, how it responds to your moving around, etc.

I'm not sure I could buy a mattress online sight unseen and just "hope" it was the one for me (and my wife), hoping I didn't have to deal with returns, etc. (How the hell would I return a mattress via UPS/FedEx?)

Maybe I'm overthinking it?

You're definitely right about that. We estimate that 90%+ of our potential customers wouldn't buy our bed unless they were able to touch it and lay down on it.

We setup some really good policies to make it super easy to return without much risk. We'll have it picked up by a 3rd party before having you ship it back to us as an example.

We see ourselves moving offline in the future for sure but to bootstrap, it wasn't really feasible to do anything other than launch online.

Kudos for bootstrapping and being lean about this. Even cooler that you think 90% of people won't buy it without physically touching it and you STILL started online!

Site looks great, photos are excellent, product looks great based on all that. Having bought 2 new mattresses in the past 2 years, I know how shitty the mattress buying experience is.

Good luck to you, definitely rooting for ya!

I'm reading this sentiment a lot on this thread. But it seems these guys are surely not the first to go against this trend and achieve success. Another example is Indochino (suits for men). Apple sold Macs strictly through their site way before they launched their stores.

The line of trying it in real life is getting spread pretty thin and soon will diminish against the power of social media and online customer reviews. Why would I need to try it myself when I can read tons of reviews online of people who bought the product? Surely a review will actually be more helpful than trying it myself since it could delineate facts that I may not of considered.

I don't know. I recently bought a fairly expensive Stearns & Foster mattress and lying it for a few minutes in the store didnt tell me much. You basically end up trusting that it won't get saggy after a couple years because it's more expensive and thats basically of what you pay for. These are so cheap it's almost worth the risk. It's sort of like Warby Parker.
We bought a VI-Spring mattress last year.

Part of the conditions of the satisfaction guarantee is that you have to have certification that you lay on the appropriate demonstration mattress for at least 30 minutes.

I don't see that listed here but it's in our hard-copy, and the retailer emphasised it before purchase:

http://www.vispring.com/our-promises/guaranteed

Do you also sale bed frames or just the mattress? What bed frame do you recommend for your mattresses?
We recommend a platform bed frame without a boxspring for the best feel.

The frame that we have in our photos is of our design but we're not really able to move into hard goods yet. Maybe once we grow a bit more.

West Elm has some nice simple designs that we like.

Great, will probably be buying a new new mattress next month. Great timing :)
That's great. If you have any other questions feel free to shoot them to me direct jt at tuftandneedle
The title of this article sounded to me like one of those statistically generated ones that were on here a little while ago!
We did pass it around the team to make sure it sound right. That generator must be pretty good.
I feel like a proud Granddad reading this post. JT was one of my developers at Hashrocket. :)
Congratulations on your success. I really enjoy reading your story and looking at the web site. Are you guys self-funded? I'm curious about the first few mattresses and orders. Would love to read a longer and detailed article if not a little to the text. Thank you.

-V.

Maybe we'll do a more in depth blog post about that. We are self funded entirely.

Thank you for the kind words.

Please do. I'd be very interested to read it. I've always been interested in doing a physical-product type company, but I don't want to take outside investment, and it would be excellent to hear a successful bootstrapping story.
Good to see some people doing cool things in Tempe, AZ! Best of luck to you and your team, it seems like you have a really great product going!
Do you guys have any plans for Canada?
We are available in the US only at the moment, but Canada would be the next logical expansion for distribution. That being said, we don't have a specific date on this yet as we don't want to overextend ourselves and risk the quality of our service.
Sent you a message - I like a mattress in Canada but don't want to have to order it to the US and bring it home myself :)
There are re-shipping companies that can send you orders from the US to Canada.
Really loved your story. Went to ASU worked for IIS...etc. If you need outside marketing I would look at Terralever. They are there locally and are very "private". CJ and Scott will help you out tremendously. Good luck.
So is this a box spring? Or more like a futon? Maybe add something on up your site that has a cross section picture?
According to the Amazon listing, it's just 3 layers of dense foam with a cotton cover. The story is interesting but the only selling point seems to be the return policy. You can get more mattress for less money from Ikea or even Amazon itself, and I wouldn't want to sleep on 5 inches of foam at any price -- it's more a mat than a mattress, and is going to be even thinner once you put your body weight on it.

Their twin is $199, and less than half the height of a normal mattress. For $139 you can get a 5-star-rated 8" foam mattress with 4" of dense foam, 2" of soft foam and 2" of memory foam, delivered tomorrow with the same certifications and 5-year warranty. [1] For $229, you can get a 12" foam mattress, which is more like a traditional full height mattress. [2]

1: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006L9QN4G/ref=oh_details_o...

2: http://www.amazon.com/Signature-Sleep-12-Inch-Memory-Mattres...

We recently bought one of those inexpensive spring mattresses from Ikea. Let me just say that the thing was about as comfortable as a sack of slinkies. Would not buy again. And you can't try them out in-store either as they don't have all of their mattresses on display.
I wasn't talking about a spring mattress, but a foam mattress just like these. Ikea's start at $79.
This is awesome.

Did you start this as a side project?

Also curious how you built the bed as well…definitely a great price and a very elegant site. Aligns well with your product.

I don’t know if we have any New Yorkers here, but Bob’s furniture (official sponsor of just about every NYC sports team) sells lower cost furniture, and you’d never know it based on their cheesy late night commercials, but they’re actually an extremely fast growing private company, and did a ton of growth in the furniture industry during the “great recession”

Kudos to you. You should setup a blog and track progress and tell the story. I’d definitely be a reader!

JT and I left our jobs to start a company together. We sought out a stagnant industry to disrupt and saw ripe opportunity in mattresses. Most of the products were mediocre and designed without taste, and there seemed to be a lot of greed among the major players.

So we launched with a very simple v1 product — an all cotton mattress — and then iterated from there based on customer feedback and surveys.

Thanks for your feedback!

AWESOME!

Worth it just so you can avoid a freaking furniture store!

John, thank you for this. As many have commented, I am kicking myself that I had to buy a mattress months ago and had to go through the whole bait-and-switch, renamed-same-mattress-from-store-to-store BS.

Next mattress will be from you guys --- any king-sized mattresses in your future (or is that what the twin XL)

Again -- thank you for disrupting this corrupt business

That renamed-same-mattress-from-store-to-store BS was actually my favorite part of purchasing my bed, but this product is awesome and next time I need a bed it will more than likely be this one.
Thank you. We really appreciate the support.
The site, and the bed, look great. Congratulations.

I'd be really interested to read a follow up post detailing a little more about your story, how you guys got started, challenges you faced, what you'd differently, etc...at least the details you're comfortable sharing.

Thanks! That's a good idea. We'll follow up with a blog post and share some more of the backstory.
Have been looking to buy a new one for a while and this looks to be a great find (on HN of all the places!).

Would love to have a recommendation for an affordable(!) good looking bed frame on the site while you guys build the replacement.

What type of foam do you use? My concern has always been that not enough testing has been done on the foam, and the chemicals used could leech into the both, especially if you like to sleep naked on the bed. I used to sleep on a memory foam mattress, but after a couple of years, I noticed a distinct discoloration of where I slept, and it suggested to me there was some sort of interaction between my body and the foam, so I threw it out.
Do you use a sheet and a mattress pad on top of the mattress?
a.) use a mattress protector. they are waterproof and prevent transfer from body<->mattress.

b.) people naturally sweat and have oils in their skin that get transferred through sheets. it's normal to have discoloration where you sleep. that's another reason a mattress protector helps (easier to replace a $50 cover than a $$$ mattress).

Our foam is a polyurethane foam like most other foam and memory foam mattresses. We use 3 different mixtures of foam in our bed, all of which have been offgas tested and meets the strict standards of the CertiPUR certification.

We definitely wouldn't sell something that we wouldn't want to sleep on ourselves but I can understand your concern with sleeping on something that isn't 100% natural.

If you're concerned about sleeping on foam then you might want to take a look at a more alternative option. Look for 95% natural latex foam (there is no such thing as 100% because they use glues) or for all organic cotton/wool tufted cores.

Why did you not go with latex?
Possibly speaking out of turn here, but latex allergies are not insignificant. It would take a big bite out of their potential market.
You threw away a memory foam mattress because of that? Did you consider using sheets or a mattress protector? Did you know that sweat and oils from your skin will do that on any mattress, regardless of the foam or lack of? Do you normally make extreme decisions like this when it comes to your health?

I thought I understood consumers, but now you have me doubting myself. Human behavior is fascinating.

There's some sort of interaction between your body and your bathtub, too.