Ask HN: Startup vs Girlfriend
I'm 25, computer engineer with masters. I have a day job, I also have a halftime startup. I also have french lessons at saturdays. In the startup, we have several ambitious projects in execution. I enjoy my work (although sometimes I recognize myself as feeling exhausted...), however as I come from a mid class (more towards poor) family, I have a strong perception (with evidence) of that if I do hard work I can achieve some moderate level of wealth. I really did like my relationship with my girlfriend, but lately she keeps saying about how little time I dedicate to herself, and how my main interest had been turned on the startup success...
I admit the quality of our relationship has been seriously lowered, and I feel very sad on both of us. I imagined a future with her. I really love her but according to her expectations (reasonable after all) my dedication is not enough.
I don't know what to do. What should I do? should I focus more on my gf and quit my aspirations of becoming "rich" in the near future (with high costs like losing her)? or should I prefer a more balanced lifestyle with lower expectations?
Please some experienced advice would be grateful.
[ EDIT ]
She was involved on the startup with ideas and support, and formally too with 33% of representation and legal paperwork. A couple of days ago she told me she want to leave the thing because my lack of commitment with her. Her argument was a sort of "given that you aren't going to anywhere with me, I want to quit of the startup"
121 comments
[ 1.1 ms ] story [ 189 ms ] threadOne possibility is to set aside time explicitly, as he's doing for his class. Going out on an actual date once or twice a week may make up for the heads down time in her mind. It would also provide another way to switch out the working set.
Business partnerships are already volatile enough without adding romance into the mix.
Ever hear of the mom-and-pop store? Couples, even married couples, have been running businesses together for centuries. My parents owned and ran businesses together. In fact, "can I run a small business with this person" isn't a bad question to ask yourself about a potential life partner :)
My parents owned and ran two businesses together, but they never got rich. But it wasn't a bad way to live, and they definitely saw more of each other than they would have with day jobs. Though to be fair, they also had my dad's retired pay from the military, which mitigated a lot of risks and meant they'd never be truly broke.
It's like marriage - people say that you'll know when you know. If you're not sure if you know, then you don't know.
The same couple that "just knows" they are great for each other during great times will be unsure if circumstances outside of their control lead to more difficult times. Doubt is a natural and healthy response when conflicting responsibilities clash in life, and should not be interpreted as some sort of signal that there is no "magic" or that it isn't "destiny".
I'm talking about knowing you're _committed_ to another person. When you know you're _committed_ to another person you don't have to wonder if French lessons should go, or the startup should go, or the girl should go.
In theory I could know that I'm great for 314 different people, but that's a lot different than knowing that I'm committed to one.
This isn't fantasy and it's extremely representative of what goes into making a working relationship.
The biggest thing I think is that people communicate differently, therefore somethings that aren't a big deal to us may be a big deal to other people, and we might not even realize that we are communicating something we don't intend. If you can get over that hurdle you may find that it doesn't have to be an either-or situation.
There is also the fact that if you are working too much to maintain even one healthy relationship, then you are working to much. We have people who care about us in our lives becasue they can help us see our blind spots. If She is feeling that your life is out of balance, you should listen to that and do some evaluating, even for the sake of your own health.
If she truly loves you she will understand that your need to be creative and be in business for yourself is a part of who you are, but by the same token, you can't let success rob you of the most important treasures in life: your relationships with other human beings.
I'm 26 and my situation is nearly identical to the OP, with one big exception: My fiance and I share the same values.
And what it really means is just, "do you want the same things out of life." And WRT this subject, we both feel strongly that the surest path to happiness in our careers (and to wealth) is to work for ourselves. It's been 2 years since we made the leap together and it's been successful, if off-the-plan.
Her skills compliment mine (She's a great designer and a true people-person). She's done a lot of design and sales work, plus a lot of administrative stuff.
We both think that in the long run we'd benefit from having pursuits outside our marriage and once we've reached a point where we can pay for what she brings to the table now at no extra charge, she'll lay the foundation for her own ideas, which we'll fund and persue as quickly as is prudent.
There's been snags along the way. There will certainly be more of them. And I lived with a woman for a year and a half prior to meeting my soon-to-be wife and we had none of this shared-values chemistry and that eventually contributed to the hard choice of pursuing our separate paths. Mine led me here, and I couldn't be happier.
People are far more important than money. But if you're young and not yet married, without children, without a mortgage, you should ask "do I want to make this sacrifice. Can I find a way to have both." Your life is short. And you get one shot. Don't settle.
I agree, which is why I put that part in there :)
I agree though that people are more important than things. When break-up time happens, make sure you treat her with respect, and let her know that there are bigger things at stake.
SOME people are more valuable to you than things/money. Others aren't. We don't know her value.
(1) What did she do that's worth 30% of your company?
(2) Does she respect your work?
On one hand, you can't readily tell with that little data if not having a close girlfriend directly correlates with greater chances, or is there some indirect correlation or none at all.
On the other hand, it seems that once you become somewhat successful, you meet and befriend other successful people on daily basis. And fortunately enough, several interesting women do achieve successes.
Disclaimer: not much of experience on my side.
EDIT: I can't help but wonder whether she reads HN.
[edit]
Maybe my take on this is a little tainted. I was in a similar situation many years ago. I chose the girl and I'll probably continue to kick myself for it a while longer. In my case, the fact that we even had this issue was probably indicative of the relationship not being the right fit for either of us. There are a lot of things that I wish I'd been able to do back then.
personally I side with finishing the startup. If it was a wife, sure might have been a valid question, since her leaving you = you getting screwed financially or having some problems with custody of kids etc.
But a girlfriend? If this one leaves, you'll find someone better. At least this way you won't waste your time with someone who doesn't support your ambitions. There is plenty of fish in the sea, you can always find someone better. Don't let the "she is my soulmate" confuse you. Its just your biology following it's programming in order to have you marry her and pop out some rugrats.
No. If you are the one who isn't willing to compromise, then you should do the honorable thing and tell her that it isn't working for you. If not, then you are just wasting her time and that is very disrespectful and cowardly.
She clearly wants to make it work since she actually told you what her problem is. If she didn't care, she would have dumped you already.
Don't fall into the trap of believing she means what she says. She could mean plenty of other things. For example:
1.) "I want to leave you, but I have no good excuse. Let me find one." Evidence for this: she is less affectionate when you are available.
2.) "I am unsuccessful, and your hard work reminds me of this fact." Evidence: she gets angry at unrelated things when you have work-related success. (This is truly a disaster. If this is the case, get out now.)
In either of these cases, it's best to dump her immediately.
And in my experience with women, a little bit of time goes a long way if you do it right. Surprise her with flowers. Take her on a picnic. These things don't take much time but give her something to brag about to her lady friends.
You'd be surprised how just a few hours a week can convert a downward spiral relationship into a flourishing one.
I wouldn't be so sure ... "WHAT? You share our personal problems with the whole internet? You are going to let a bunch of nerds decide on our relationship?"
Of course, she may as well be a very reasonable person, but we don't know.
You can't buy a and there is no guarantee of b.
Edit: After thinking about it a little more, the chances are if you are reading this, you are already filthy rich-- meaning you are probably in the top 1%. We often evaluate our "richness" by evaluating our selves with those who have more than us. Stated differently, we evaluate ourselves "up" instead of "down". The reality is that 99% of the rest of the world has less access to opportunity, education, resources, even food.
You're trying to decide what's most appropriate for both of you, and what kind of balance you are willing to strike.
Will either of you be happy with you working 60 hours during the week, and trying to make the most of the remaining time with her? Is there a realistic balancing point that should work for both you?
Is it a matter of taking one or two nights a week, scheduling the time with her, and making it top priority no matter what comes up with work? If not, how much time would work? Does it still leave you time to recharge to keep it sustainable?
Most importantly, how does the idea of setting time aside from the start-up to dedicate it to your girl friend sound to you? If you aren't looking forward to it, then you probably already know what you need to know ... you just need to admit it to yourself.
I wish you luck in making the right choices, as you're asking about life changing decisions.
Creating a successful startup makes you more self-confident and it changes you in the way you will be more attractive to women. So, having money is just a side-effect. Having money is good sign you are successful (alpha male).
So it is not true, that with money you are likely to attract bad women. You will simply attract all women.
Here's my data:
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/060629_money_happines...
And
http://www.allacademic.com/meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/...
As well as:
http://www.astm.org/JOURNALS/FORENSIC/PAGES/JFS2004347.htm
How important is the startup to you? Is it a lifelong dream of yours to have and run your own business doing what you love or is it just a vehicle for you to cash out on your talents at a young age?
How about your relationship? Do you live together? (That can be helpful, but it can also lead to distractions and high levels of non-quality time together.) If not, how often do you see each other? What is your girlfriend's life like? Does she have outside interests and projects, or just a day job and you? How much attention does she need from you? How do the two of you communicate? How difficult would it be for you to get another girlfriend? How much does this one share in your dreams and ambitions for yourself?
I don't expect you to spill your guts on this stuff, but you have to get a lot more personal than this if you want any confident answers. But, it's important to consider these things.
In general terms, though, any life decision that commits you to more than a day job and a little bit of outside activity is something you definitely need to communicate with your partner about, if you value them and the relationship. This includes having children, joining the Navy, taking night classes, or founding a startup.
Alternatively, get her involved? Does she want to support you in your quest for wealth? Can you get her interested? One mistake I made with an ex was to not tell him what I was doing with my startup and starting to snap at him whenever he asked questions about what was going on; mostly this was due to fear of admitting failure to him later.
My main advice - and this is coming from someone who's been a hacker's girlfriend, y'unnerstand - is talk to her.
[edit in reply to edit] Well, if she's been involved and is walking away, doesn't that tell you something?
Allow yourself to make mistakes and take chances. If you go after the girl, maybe it won't lead to anything. But it doesn't mean you've squandered your chances at success. If you succeed (or fail) at your startup, it doesn't mean you're going to die alone.
Think hard about your gut intuition. Deep down inside you probably know what's right, and you just need a little encouragement.
Also, to every story there are two sides and we're hearing only one.
Asking advice of strangers without any suitable knowledge of you or your significant other, or your relationship is not going to result in good advice, if one is genuinely unsure of where life is leading.
In fact, most of the threads started in this manner, contain so little information that one can do little but caricature the participants. If you seriously want relationship advice, there are relationship/marriage councilors, if you think it's worth sorting out.
Advice is also particularly pointless, again lacking any proper context for relating to the situation at hand.
So i'm left wondering why these threads are started. Are these attempts at trolling? Flame bait? Is it an attempt to get something down on paper, to clarify the author's own thoughts on the subject (in which case, why post it to Hacker News)?
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As to the respondents, how on earth are you making the judgement that he should or shouldn't leave his girlfriend, given a total lack of knowledge regarding his startup? How can you possibly engage in a responsible cost-benefit analysis (even if it's not really quantifiable anyway), without receiving more than a 215 word description?
Try to get her involved. Startup is as personal as it gets to life aspirations and she should see it. If not, you might not be for each other. You shouldn't ever make such choices.
btw. I am in absolutely same situation, and I got her involved as much as possible. Don't ever assume she will be as interested in the startup as you are, but give a lot of praise and credit.
Myself, I've gone with the work. I never regretted it, but then I knew she wasn't the girl for me. What I remember most powerfully was how unpleasant was the feeling that she made me choose. Maybe i'm a romantic guy, but I believe a the right girl would pack you a healthy lunch and encourage you, not make you feel guilty you do what you love.
Anyone who's such a doormat that they'll encourage you regardless of the cost to them is not capable of true romance.
Your desire for unconditional support is pure selfishness, and not conducive to a great relationship.
If you "really love her", then you already oughta know what's most important. (Most important, not the only thing.)
Her "expectations" are not really expectations. They are cries for help. Listen.
Some of the things we have done:
- We take French lessons together and speak French around the house all the time.
- We always eat dinner together.
- We go out somewhere every weekend (usually not my pick).
- We catch up by phone several times a day.
It's hard to explain, but I have a "more balanced lifestyle" without "lower expectations". You can have both. It's up to you to find a way.
[EDIT: Forgot one of the most important things: Sunday brunch is a big deal at our house. We shop together (the night before), cook together, and sit together for 2 to 3 hours at a table full of great food and 3 newspapers. At first, I thought it was a waste of time, but now I really look forward to it.]
Unfortunately, in my case, I focused on the start-up and then my girlfriend eventually left me.
I think the best advice is probably the dinner thing. It creates a ritual that brings you together. I wish I'd done that.
Another good piece of advice is to make sure you're living on the same time-table, and try to shift things around so that you're free when she's free. Yes, it might be a little inconvenient to wake up earlier and work in the morning so that you can spend the evening with her, but it's not that big a deal once you get used to it.
I chose both GF and the startup. I just made them equal priorities.
You must ask you self is the startup thing something you would be cool with over love, friendships and anything else?
One of my MAIN goals in life is to start a company and my GF knows this extremely well. I spend more time coding and working on my startup then I spend time with her. You have to let her know that one of your main goals is your start up. And you must be clear about this.
But on the other side, You are 25 years old and so am I. lol. Man how time flies. You have to start thinking what you want in life? Do you want to go through the next 25 years thinking that you missed out on something? I sure don't. I decided to make a commitment. My GF is 'a' top priority in my life and my start up is also 'a' top priority. Both know about each other and its just all about making time for both.
I dedicated at LEAST an hour or so a day to love and talk with my girl. My startup can be stretched to another 6 months if thats what it takes. 6 months is nothing in the grand scheme of things, but would you rather keep your girl and stretch your startup out another 6 months or lose your girl and finish 6 months early... It doesn't take much to think about this. Thats why I chose both. My startup can be stretched a little bit for the girl I love.
If you have partners, make sure they know that too. My startup and my girl share both rank #1 on my priority list. Just make time for both brother.
I'll give you some straight forward practical advice about this situation. If you love her--be prepared for one hell of an emotional roller coaster a month or two after the breakup. You'll be able to ignore it for some time and then a whole other range of emotions will hit you. It turns out this is a normal way to process a loss, it's called grieving. http://www.womens-homepage.com/how-to-get-over-break-up-stag...
That said, if she is demanding but not too demanding (you'll know the line) and you think there is a chance for the two of you without the startup--then maybe it's worth trying to make it work with the startup. Any gains made by dumping the girl will quickly be lost to the grieving process. Really though--asking her to put up with you while you're doing the startup is asking a lot. Appreciate what she has put up with so far, let her know you appreciate it, and thank her for being a "partner" in the process.
Good luck.
Easy to say that now he doesn't need to. I doubt he really believes he made a mistake, and he'd swap all his success with Digg to get his old girl and their $6000 back.