Ask PG: Does smoking marijuana affect the ability to hack and run a startup?
Throw away account. I have a startup in San Francisco, and smoking weed actually is quite therapeutic. It is an outlet for stress and the never-ending wall of burden. Development and startups are evolving so fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate. You always need to be learning and using X new language or technology. My startup is the hardest thing I've done so far in my life.
The culture of San Francisco also is heavily accepting, even promoting of smoking marijuana. Often times it feels like some of the best hackers I know smoke on a regular basis.
However, there are noticeable side-effects. Some short term memory loss, sometimes I find it difficult to stay focused, on-task, and motivated. On the flip side, I do some of my best hacking high. I'm able to focus on a single problem; become tunnel vision. Problems just become simpler.
Thoughts? Can, and should a startup founder, as a leader, and public face of a company smoke? Can you be an amazing hacker smoking consistently?
79 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 156 ms ] threadAn openly pot-head founder risks offending or scaring customers or buyers or later investors. It also indicates some who doesn't get the "performative" aspect of being a commodity founder: the expected degree of conformative role playing.
Wouldn't that be putting the company and its management in a very risky situation? Distribution of controlled substances carries much higher penalties than mere possession. If a disgruntled employee calls in an anonymous tip to the cops, they might end up with a bunch of heavily armed cops kicking down their office door. Not so great for productivity...
And honestly, I smirk at people who do eat lunch. And it goes without saying what I think of leisure-lunchers.
I personally enjoy the pain of hunger as I code. That's why. I smirk in that I more fully realize my difference from others when I know they clearly do not enjoy that pain. I'm surely not saying it makes me better or smarter. I smirk in that I, in a way, come to know myself better: that I enjoy the pain of hunger, and what it looks like of others who do not, given the context.
snoop_a_loop, if you are serious about protecting your identity with regards to this thread, consider deleting it immediately.
If you're not the other guy, no harm done. If you are, consider that I could have been trying to be helpful. Clearly you consider anonymity important enough to be using a throwaway account.
Btw, I've known founders who smoke. The only people who might care in SF are more conservative VCs etc.
Your startup is in SF, so this is probably relevant, but there's absolutely nothing that requires a startup to be in SF. It can be in Austin, Brussels, Sydney, Fargo, or Bangalore. If you feel that local culture acceptance is a reason for, then you've already answered the question if you start up in a locale where it isn't.
I think this is a myth. Yes, there's a romanticism of the culture of being cutting edge. Truthfully, those that ship well, and actually turn profits for founders, are most often running on 15+ year old languages.
Can't wait for uninformed and inexperienced judgement that will be raining down in this thread. A bunch of people saying a bunch of ridiculous things that they'd never say if they knew how many people smoked around them and don't tell them. Same exact scenario as homosexuality. And I say this as someone who faces far more stigma as a smoker than I do as a gay guy. Which is ironic, because it's same conversation "Oh you're gay? You smoke pot? Would have never known!" ... Duh.
/me gets popcorn. Hey this registering one-off troll accounts for new threads is kinda fun! Glad it still is encouraged.
It entirely depends on the image you're looking to present for yourself. If you are comfortable with being a smoker and people judging you and your company by that, then by all means continue.
There are some that will judge you poorly in any circle but a majority likely will not care.
My only advice is don't look to others/the culture to justify a behavior. In the end it has to be your decision and you have to own it. I think most people would be surprised by the number of their peers who have made this choice.
So smoke if you want to, but keep your mouth shut when talking to people with money.
This is a pretty good life rule.
> Development and startups are evolving so fast, and it often feels like you are never adequate. You always need to be learning and using X new language or technology. My startup is the hardest thing I've done so far in my life.
Always X is always wrong. There are always exceptions. Often, your always is the exception rather than the norm. As I look the tools people are using today, I feel like we have barely moved. Developers are using the same tools, they have just got a little heavier.
The founders would rightfully be stressed, but isn't it their jobs to protect developers from all that so they can focus on their jobs? Again, I would think that high stress would be the exception rather than the norm for anyone not actually running the company. Why should you be stressed if you don't own the company? The unemployment rate for developers is low enough that you can just get another job if the company fails. Right? That's not to say you shouldn't be packing a mighty can of whoop-ass in the name of your company, but you don't need to kill yourself either.
> However, there are noticeable side-effects. Some short term memory loss, sometimes I find it difficult to stay focused, on-task, and motivated. On the flip side, I do some of my best hacking high. I'm able to focus on a single problem; become tunnel vision. Problems just become simpler.
A lack of focus is a side effect of some of the worst blockers of productivity. That includes lack of sleep, drinking alcohol (and the hangover after,) being sick and burned out. This would overrule any perceived gains for me. Does it matter that you are able to do better hacking after smoking weed? What are you working on? Slow and steady is generally a winning strategy as long as you are shipping. Sometimes you have to put in relatively heavy hours to accelerate this, but you get there eventually. It doesn't have to be a work of art, it doesn't have to be brilliant, just ship the dang thing and move on.
PG doesn't shy away from identifying characteristics of founders/YC alums.
Dude, that's awesome++
Can you imagine how weird it would be if people freaked out if they heard you had a beer at lunch or had a beer at 4PM while working from home? Weird to me at least...
My advice? I will fall back on the saying "if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen".
There are many reasons why someone might have to medicate themselves if they have a situation that is not under their control (family problems, health as only two). And I"m not saying that someone should medicate themselves in those situations but just that it's more understandable when you have to deal with some external things that you have little or no control over. But with respect to "getting ahead" if you can't take the pressure, and you need to medicate, you should seriously consider setting your goals a bit lower. To me if you are thinking of this as a "never-ending wall of burden" then you have not chosen the correct career path.
Of course others may disagree and feel differently but I've seen to many people reach for the brass ring and as a result of pressure which they can't handle fall into some dependency or behavioral problem as a result of that dependency.
Just my thoughts.
(I say "might" because I don't know enough about the specifics of your situation.)
But I do know that for sure anyone who eggs you on will have no detriment to the choices that you have made to get ahead.
I do understand how you have to do this because everyone else is taking that route.
Back in the day I never even tried pot. Or cigarettes. And everyone else was doing it back then. But then again it wasn't used to enhance performance or get ahead. So I can't honestly say what I would have done if faced with a peer group that was using performance enhancing drugs that I had to compete with.
You need to look inside yourself and decide what is right for you and your circumstance. Certainly you cannot expect PG to issue an edict down from the clouds. You are pandering to your role model/idol/God figure to approve a behavior whose merits you haven't decided for yourself.
Furthermore, it is a fact that PG is infinitely wise when it comes to succeeding in startups but as a community of people that look up to him for his advice and indirect mentorship I'd rather we not request his 'judgement' on matters like this because of the disproportionate weight his words carry.
Seems as if that would collect a bit of attention. And if the publication then issued a press release (if they actually did their own research and/or surveys) the mainstream press would pick up on it.
I've seen several promising friends fizzle and burn out because they started needing to have a smoke for breakfast. Just keep it to the occasional party and try to phase it out completely as you continue the process of growing up.
Sorry for the snark, but when there's clearly a visibility problem, these one-off negative anecdotes given as universal observations and advice are nearly useless.
Alcohol doesn't make you more sociable. Tobacco doesn't make you look cool. And weed doesn't help you relax.
Or rather, all of the above certainly do that, but there are ample alternatives that do it better and have zero consequences for your health.
There are legitimate uses for alcohol too. Great disinfectant. Great at cleaning mechanical parts.
Doesn't mean drinking half a bottle of vodka a day will make you a great business leader. Smoking weed won't make you into one either.
That, and you know what, going around calling everyone "kids" because you can't formulate an argument makes you look bad, not the "kids" you're looking down on.
You're so clearly unwilling to even listen on this issue, it was apparent from the get-go.
I'd hate to ever get caught eating a piece of chocolate in front of you. You'd probably slap it out of my hands, call me a fatty and tell me there are healthier ways to make myself happy.
> That, and you know what, going around calling everyone "kids" because you can't formulate an argument makes you look bad, not the "kids" you're looking down on.
I never called anyone kids?
> I'd hate to ever get caught eating a piece of chocolate in front of you. You'd probably slap it out of my hands, call me a fatty and tell me there are healthier ways to make myself happy.
If you were sitting in front of me, eating a piece of chocolate, telling me how eating that chocolate is going to make you a better business leader ... well, I'd be making fun of you just as much as I'm doing now =)
Are you kidding me? How petty, childish, immature and snarky can you be about this? What an obvious defense mechanism. (The irony being I'm in the middle of a two month break from using anything as I'm traveling).
I didn't claim it would make me a better business leader. I claimed it wouldn't make me a worse one and you've done nothing to show otherwise but offer a single stupid anecdote to dismiss everyone else.
And yes, you've three times now implied (or explicitly said) that anyone who even smokes pot occasionally needs to grow up. (Imagine the absurdity if I said that about having a beer. And you're already jumping to a million conclusions in your head that you know nothing about). You're a smug person latching to stereotypes. A tough anti-drug guy (proudly) making fun of people for what they do in their spare time. Just like I said: preconceived notions and judgmental condescension. Thanks for confirming all of my suspicions from my very first post in this thread.
All gay people I know have lisps, so they all do; don't you know?
It's pretty clear he realizes that he has no idea what he's talking about and can only resort to stereotypes and name-calling.
edit: And apparently has no idea how throwaway accounts work, I guess.
The point remains that there is a non-zero chance of harming your chances of achieving you career goals if you light up frequently. Ther are no doubt outliers who can work well stoned, but for the regular person this is not likely to be the case. In fact for most people they'll regret endless hours stoned on the couch when they look back, after they realisr their youth and enthusiasm were precious assets that don't last forever.
Growing up and facing the world clear headed is a worthy goal. I don't think anyone can really argue against that.
What is the evidence pokesmot is blaming himself? Notice he is "quoting" brc using the quote symbols, but brc didn't actually say what is quoted. NVC will teach you to read things like this as a feeling/opinion held by the person who is "quoting" someone else. When you are saying something contentious, you are are either blaming yourself or you are blaming the other guy. Given brc didn't actually say what pokesmot said he said, I'm going with the former: he's blaming himself a bit. This leads me to thinking it's not beyond us to consider we might feel a bit of fear ourselves if we consumed more than a moderate amount of pot in a given week and then someone comes by and said "don't kid yourself it's making you better at work".
Ironically that last quote is also a blaming statement. The logical implication of that statement is, if I smoke weed, I won't be better at my job, especially if I do it regularly. The won't is derived from the negative fragment 'kid yourself'.
Anyway, I agree with both of them! Don't smoke weed with the expectations of becoming better at work. Making casual blaming statements affects all of us. We should all try harder not to do it!
I've smoked ever since I was 14. Most of the time about once a week, at times not smoking for a year, and sometimes all day for months.
Smoking very frequently has a negative effect on me when it comes to business. I have more trouble finding motivation and caring, I am less in control of myself and get along less easily with people.. I become a feral hacker pretty fast.
On the other hand, I find a lot of benefits in smoking occasionally.
It seems pot disconnects you from your "hard-drive". You have problems pulling data that is otherwise readily available, and much that happens when you smoke doesn't seem to get stored at all.
So what's the advantage? Well, it doesn't seem to affect what's in your "RAM". You're like a super AI with a completely fresh storage and barely any data. Now data in most cases is useful, specially when you're trying to reproduce things that worked previously. When you hit a wall though, it can become a burden.
Most of you probably remember the sentence "You must unlearn what you have learned"! Except in this case, you lose factual data, but not cognitive processes. You certainly won't suddenly be able to levitate, but it's amazing what the brain can come up with when you lose track of all the common practices.
I've done a year of math prep in one of EU's hardest universities, and it was amazingly hard. Trying to solve any of the problems while high would lead to a ton of execution mistakes (copying stuff wrong, losing track of what you were doing etc), and was generally bad. Being slightly high for a test would cut my grade in half.
On the other hand, on many occasions, I spent a couple hours attempting to solve something from any possible angle and failed, like solving a rubik's cube and always coming back to the same configuration. Then at some point, later in the day or week, I'd think about that problem again while being high, and have my mind elegantly walk through the complexity of it and see the solution.
I spoke about it with people at that school who smoked, and most of those who were naturals at math seemed to have had the same experience. Ever since, I've had it happen to me on many occasions about different implementation/design challenges. I've worked with other people who were occasional smokers, and sometimes when failing to solve problems (more policical / vision related than technical), mention them again when we were high, and have extremely interesting things come up.
Obviously you want to review / implement / apply those new ideas when you're sober, because you need to run them through your experience and memory extensively, but weed can be a great source when you need an alternate angle of approach.
[1] http://archive.is/20120916001237/http://www.smh.com.au/techn...
Hi. I'm a software developer that smokes multiple times daily even as I work (remotely).
Started smoking weed semi-regularly when I was 15. It helps me get over certain anxiety issues. Never really kicked the habit, but I never really felt like I wanted to except to pass a drug test.
It was a little harder to find a job after college. I have quit for small periods of time while looking for a job. But my clients and I are happy. Isn't that what really matters?
On being a public face: Are you setting up your company's culture and image? It's up to you to decide if the risk of fallout is greater than smoking your nugs IF the public finds out.
On being an amazing hacker: Maybe. I'm not old enough to have put in my ten years or 10k hours for 'expert' status as a software engineer yet. I do not consider myself to be a 10x (engineer), but I'm definitely not a 1x either.
Background: B.S. in EE/CmpE, software engineer (Rails primarily right now) and sysadmin
But I also tried to smoke continuously, and that did not work out well for me. I think it's like a glass of wine can be nice, but being tipsy all the time is not, not to mention being really drunk. I would say, don't spoil this wonderful plant for yourself by abusing it (not to mention the temporary damage you can do to yourself with it). I think it was George Carlin who said he writes his material sober, but then smokes a joint to make the finishing touches. I can see how that makes sense, but I don't know how much it applies to programming. This is for you to find out, carefully.
My personal take is that its both a tool for self examination and insight, yet also promotes play. Used with good intention it can be super powerful in getting your shit together and loosening up too. Used as a distraction it's no different than needlessly checking social media, watching too much porn, lottery tickets or cheeseburgers.
If you haven't smoked in 5, 10 years. Try it again with a close friend and go baked to the movies, go eat somewhere awesome, and go back to the house and watch that pink Floyd DVD. Post your trip report in the comments. :)
Responsible drug use includes knowing how people respond to drugs, and knowing how you respond differently than other people to drugs...
Lets unpack some of them...
Will VCs be more likely to invest if they know you're a pot smoker? Unless they are also a pot smoker probably not. Pot is associated laziness.
Will VCs be more likely to invest in your crazy idea you had while high? If they don't know you had it while smoking pot then probably.
Is smoking pot good for writing bug free boiler plate code? Not in my experience.
Is smoking pot good for making revolutionary breakthoughs by approaching the problem from a new angle? Possibly.
Can you endear great engineers who smoke pot by having a 420 friendly culture? Most definitely.
Realistically, if you want to smoke pot then smoke pot. Your startup is a lottery ticket, smoking pot doesn't change the odds in any significant way. The asking for permission attitude seems more detrimental than pot smoking ever could be.