What I would recommend is that instead of distributing your time and energy to this many apps, you should stick to one concept and channel all your time into it. I like the games, but they could use some improvement in concept and overall quality, which shouldn't be hard for you if you spend enough time on each and every one. Focusing on one app would allow you to spend enough time, and would help you succeed further in the Windows App Market :)
pretty cool portfolio for your age ! Did you use C#/XNA for your 2 games ?
Which tutorial did you use, and how much supervision did you get? I'm asking because I'm trying to teach game programming to my son and he's 13 and I would like for him to do most of it as opposed to me doing it for him.
I made the basic structure with scirra's construct 2 ( www.scrirra.com ), but I made the rest with JavaScript, HTML, and CSS. To learn those, I got some books. O'reilly has some really good books if you know the basics.
Wow, you've certainly been productive! How was your experience with the Microsoft Store and getting apps approved? What language did you write all the games in? How much code got reused between the games (I noticed a number of them appear to be skins on top of the same underlying concept).
I used JavaScript to make the apps. The only thing that was difficult about getting approved was making it support touch and keyboard inputs. Other than that, it was pretty easy.
Good job! Have you look into Android apps? You will have a bigger audience. I am assuming you are using C# as they are Windows Store apps if so Java will be very similar for you to switch too.
You might be interested in PhoneGap (http://phonegap.com). You use HTML/CSS/Javascript to build the apps, and then Phonegap compiles them to work on multiple platforms, such as Android, iOS, Windows Phone, and more.
I think PhoneGap/Cordova (the open source base of PhoneGap) can be great for certain types of apps, and it definitely leverages your existing skillset. Here's a showcase: http://phonegap.com/app/
That said, I've never done a game with PhoneGap, and I'd worry about performance (for certain types of games)--I definitely worry about performance with javascript maps, which is closer to what we do). Just something to be aware of.
I'd definitely worry about performance in Phonegap, as to me it seems more useful for static, informational apps rather than games. I'd be interested in seeing a Phonegap game though, it would be interesting to see its acceptance in any major app market.
If you like Javascript and you'd like to start experimenting with 3D games, you should take a look at PlayCanvas[1]. WebGL-based online game tools. I think it's a little more complicated than Construct2 but you get to play with 3D graphics. :-)
What you're learning from doing so many different things will serve you well in the future. Out of all of these different apps, one will either catch your attention, or others and you'll have a chance. Keep moving!
Continue to cultivate and live live in a mindset of creativity and possibility, and be wary of doubt worshippers/haters who are busy doing nothing :).
When I was fifteen, I'm pretty sure my main accomplishment was hitting level 40 in Halo 2 matchmaking.
You will probably get lots of valid and actionable advice about branching out to new platforms, focusing on one or two apps, or trying something new -- but more than anything else, keep building things! You've clearly got a ridiculously high level of aptitude and passion.
When I was 15 my parents hated computers. However, I had hot girlfriends, where one of the best player of my basketball team and was having really too much fun.
I don't regret nothing, but I'd sure love being able to write code at that age - If that would make me a better programmer today, which means that I would have to continue writing code for another 17 years :-)
Kudos for learning to program at such a young age. It'll give you a leg up when you decide to get a job or start a company and need funding. However, I'd suggest taking some time and working on the quality and originality of the apps over the sheer number of apps that you can churn out in a year. A number of the apps seem almost identical. You want to get known for high quality apps and not as someone who just fills the app store with small apps.
Look for a summer internship. Clearly you're passionate about this, you should look for some real-world exposure to propel you to that next level of software engineering. Best of luck to you!
This is awesome! Great work dude, I wish I had such a productive sense at 15. While using javascript did you see any performance lag when playing on the actual device?
I just walked through some of their tutorials and it is still programming. It has a UI for a lot of it, but the concepts are probably more like what I consider traditional programming concepts than HTML/CSS (excluding JS).
Yeah, I expected a response like this. I really shouldn't have implied that this tool isn't a programming tool, but I think there's a difference between this tool and some C library.
OP said he made 30 apps this year. Which he did. Who cares how he made them.
If he had hired someone out to make them, people would be fawning over him, telling him he's a business tycoon.
I don't understand why you're so quick to try to shit on what he's doing, because you think you could do it in some arguably more "pure" manner, or whatever term you might use.
I wasn't shitting on the OP. That was never my intention, no matter how much you insist the contrary. And when did I suggest that I would do anything better or more pure? I'm simply responding to an implication that third-party code libraries and tools such as what the OP used are the same thing. I think they're not. Feel free to disagree all you like.
If you're just looking for an argument, look elsewhere.
I disagree. It is an attempt to put the OP down. The tool may not have people writing code, but they are programming. They have define algorithms through the use of data types, loops, conditionals, etc. What the OP did is noteworthy because he/she was able to create cool games with the limitations of the tools (and went as far as adding his own JS).
No software these days is run or built without the help of others. Why make such comment? It is not constructive nor does it aim to develop the conversation.
You can disagree all that you like. What you cannot do is ascribe intention to my posts.
At any rate, I think that you're so focused on the specific case of the OP that you've missed the point of my post. That's fine. I expected contention over my use of the word "programming", and apparently I should have been more pedantic.
This sentiment should instead be presented constructively. You should have asked what code he needed to write outside of the framework, rather than being ruled by your own exasperation.
You could have made a useful comment and been polite. Something you could likely consider every time you open your mouth, and I don't mean that in a mean way. Hacker News helped me better modulate what I say.
It was useful to me. I was curious what languages/framework the OP did and I had no idea what scirra was until this post.
> and been polite.
Seriously? I don't see any types of aggression in
tmikaeld's post.
> Something you could likely consider every time you open your mouth, and I don't mean that in a mean way. Hacker News helped me better modulate what I say.
This post just reeks of elitism. It's like immediately discrediting a comment simply because of one grammar/punctuation mistake.
If you said that to a C programmer that would translate as: I would like to see you rewrite the C standard library in assembly then boot your own optimised C compiler.
Said C coder will be so incensed that they will suffer a stroke, then start speaking in LISP.
Better yet, now is the time to create your own reusable Illustrator and Photoshop components, and write games that build them in to enable users to customize and create their own content. Oh, and 3D Studio Max, too. Not 100% of the features and complexity, just the 50% that you need 95% of the time. The same way many games and other apps use built-inn text editors to enable users to write their own text, instead of saying "oh just use Word for that".
Wonderful. And - nostalgia advances. And how, at 15 I probably was a more productive programmer than now, where I barely manage to wrap up a few miniscule open source projects per year, if any. Back then I wrote what looks like major projects to me now - in month, alongside school, friends, holidays and everything ...
Any experiences or tips on how to get 15 again in terms of productivity? :)
I think it would be slightly unrealistic to 'get back to 15'. I'm 15, and I'm a developer; the main advantage I have right now is that I don't need to worry about rent, food, and other stuff, since I'm still with my parents. This gives me time to work on whatever project I want without any other worries.
I guess in your case, you would probably have to get some sort of job where they are a lot more lenient and give you time for side projects.
No chores, no kids, no girlfriend/wife. That's where time goes. I was crazy productive when I was 15 (and when I was 12). Now I'm 33 with a wife and kids I just don't have the time. But then again I work on problems that are two-three factors harder than this during the day, so it all evens out.
Keep up the good work kid, try lots of stuff out now, find something you like, then go deep. It only gets more fun :)
It's not about chores, kids, wives. I purposely avoided all those in order to "stay in my 20s even well into my 30s, ideally forever". Sad to report that simply doesn't work, even with zero money or chore worries whatsoever!
Well, you've got school, no? That eats up about as much time, if not more, than a job. ( 8 hours of school plus homework, right?)
On top of that, add chores (if you have any), family events, and other misc distractions I'm sure you don't have that much free time. I mean, don't sell yourself short. It's not like you just get to work on stuff 16 hours a day and nothing else.
Sadly, I'm 36, married with a < 2 year old son. Wife is social (so lots of distractions) and I'm an escapist (love to read) and lazy, so I'm seriously envious of you and the OP's dedication and success at such a young age.
The minecraft-themed jump game has potential. I would skin it with more minecraft looking assets and include monsters. Maybe a creeper that explodes and takes away all surrounding blocks when you jump nearby? Or a skeleton that shoots arrows and nudges the player to the side (making it harder to control)?
You may also vary the level by using the different biome textures from the original.
That's pretty cool. Somehow I wish there would have been app stores back then when I was 15 and making games. Not to earn money but to get people to play my games - which was pretty damn hard back in 1997.
Nowadays you can get 100 users pretty easily just by releasing the game. 100 users back then was something I dreamed about reaching some day :)
I remember the equivalent years ago. I would make (awful) games in turbo pascal, and submit them to BBSes. The sysops usually put them available for download.
This doesn't detract what the fact that you had the initiative and drive to complete 30 different games. But if I can offer some advice now, rather than when something real happens: Create your own characters rather than borrowing someone else's creations and building them into your games. Pac-Man, Mario, Minecraft, My Little Pony are all great characters, just unfortunately not yours to make a game with. Find a friend who can draw and have them create some unique characters for you, write a little story and you've got an indie game that's all your own.
Create your own characters rather than borrowing someone else's creations and building them into your games. Pac-Man, Mario, Minecraft, My Little Pony are all great characters, just unfortunately not yours to make a game with.
Speaking as a game developer, this is remarkably bad advice for a young gamedev to follow. It doesn't matter whether or not they're "his". It matters that he continues creating. That's the most important thing. He's not making money off of other people's work. He's building a skillset that will serve him for a lifetime. Wasting time fitting society's arbitrary moral standard is time not spent becoming a better gamedev.
Even if he's served with a DCMA takedown notice for some of his apps, it doesn't matter even slightly, because the app isn't the end goal. Talent is. And the way to foster talent is to not stop working.
I'd encourage him to pursue art if he wants to, as it's also a skill which will serve him the rest of his life -- the creators of Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, and World of Goo were all artist-programmers, which seems more than a coincidence -- but it's not a requirement to be a gamedev.
Note for readers: I edited my original comment just before Blahah's reply was written, and my edit makes it seem like they didn't read my comment. But in fact they had read an earlier version of it. So I figure I should mention that to avoid confusion...
Anyway, it doesn't matter if his apps are taken down, because growing his skillset is the most important thing, not the apps themselves. No one will fine him or take him to jail, so as long as he's aware that maybe the app might get pulled, then using other people's characters is the best possible thing a young gamedev can do. And plus there's a good chance no one will care.
First, no being an artist isn't a requirement to be a gamedev. That's why I said find a friend who is.
Second, If, as you say, the app isn't the end goal, then don't release it and this issue doesn't even come up.
Third, you said "Wasting time fitting society's arbitrary moral standard is time not spent becoming a better gamedev."
As a parent, that is exactly why I would encourage him to create his own characters. It's not at all an arbitrary moral standard. Is theft an arbitrary moral standard? Plagiarism? If you don't have permission to use the characters, don't use them. These games are available on the official MS site right next to the official ones. Why go down the path of having to potentially have your account suspended, or whatever the punishment is if MS decides your apps are infringing.
Finally, What do you tell the kid the first time they have a successful project and someone rips it off? Don't get upset, you did it when you started, so it's ok? It doesn't matter that he's just getting his start, stealing these characters is just like stealing the source code an releasing it as your own. Are we condoning that as well? In my opinion, it's just as important to learn integrity as it is to build the app.
Finding someone else makes it much harder to start working. Stealing assets is the tried and true method of getting something to show off, and get going quite quickly.
There are enough issues with writing your own games, you have just made it that much harder.
Of course there are also lots of free assets out there for use, but designers are more hesitant than developers to give stuff out for free.
Seriously? Go look at the games, we're talking about a single image of a character in most cases. And showing something off doesn't have to be putting it up on Microsoft.com for the world to download. The kid is 15, my point is find the friend you have that is taking art class and get them to sketch something for you. I bet money that if this kid is into games, one of his gamer friends can sketch a game character for him pro-bono. We're not talking about developers and designers - these are high school kids making one-off test-the-water apps.
You know what this leads to? Kids never getting anything accomplished. By keeping the scope simple and building with established assets, he was able to actually release something.
I encourage my kids to yoink assets for their projects. Once you've succeeded a bit, and feel comfortable with one piece of the puzzle, by all means, work on the next and make custom characters and graphics. It is non-trivial skill and experience, and come later.
Just the fact that you are 15, reading hackernews and making apps and NOT spending your time kicking some middle-aged man at Halo is AMAZING. Kudos to you. I wish I was more like you when I was your age.
When I was a kid we could only afford a cheap computer (VZ-300, Australia computer), with a z80, while all my mates had c64s. So they were busy swapping games with each other, I had to program my own, first in basic, from magazines (thanks APC), and then in z80 assembly. I still love developing today, things may have been different if we were not poor.
Nice use of Maplestory assets - I did the same sorta thing in the summer of my 7th grade year for a "intro to game design" class.
Can't find the game anymore, but I had edited the chirppy sprite (http://i.imgur.com/ccSY4RE.png) to be holding and firing a bow.
I ended up getting a A- on my final for using assets that weren't mine. That's pretty small compared to the sort of things you could run into when you're actually putting this stuff on an app store.
I'd recommend toying around with a sprite editor and getting familiar with pixel art techniques like dithering. You might even enjoy it as much as coding!
151 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 196 ms ] threadWhat I would recommend is that instead of distributing your time and energy to this many apps, you should stick to one concept and channel all your time into it. I like the games, but they could use some improvement in concept and overall quality, which shouldn't be hard for you if you spend enough time on each and every one. Focusing on one app would allow you to spend enough time, and would help you succeed further in the Windows App Market :)
That said, I've never done a game with PhoneGap, and I'd worry about performance (for certain types of games)--I definitely worry about performance with javascript maps, which is closer to what we do). Just something to be aware of.
[1] http://playcanvas.com/
What you're learning from doing so many different things will serve you well in the future. Out of all of these different apps, one will either catch your attention, or others and you'll have a chance. Keep moving!
Continue to cultivate and live live in a mindset of creativity and possibility, and be wary of doubt worshippers/haters who are busy doing nothing :).
Wish you the best.
When I was fifteen, I'm pretty sure my main accomplishment was hitting level 40 in Halo 2 matchmaking.
You will probably get lots of valid and actionable advice about branching out to new platforms, focusing on one or two apps, or trying something new -- but more than anything else, keep building things! You've clearly got a ridiculously high level of aptitude and passion.
I don't regret nothing, but I'd sure love being able to write code at that age - If that would make me a better programmer today, which means that I would have to continue writing code for another 17 years :-)
Congrats to the kid.
It's made without any programming using this app: https://www.scirra.com/
... still more games than i have done though :-P
I mean, the tool's tagline is "Create Games. Effortlessly."
This isn't an attempt to put the OP down, but let's keep things in perspective.
OP said he made 30 apps this year. Which he did. Who cares how he made them.
If he had hired someone out to make them, people would be fawning over him, telling him he's a business tycoon.
I don't understand why you're so quick to try to shit on what he's doing, because you think you could do it in some arguably more "pure" manner, or whatever term you might use.
If you're just looking for an argument, look elsewhere.
No software these days is run or built without the help of others. Why make such comment? It is not constructive nor does it aim to develop the conversation.
At any rate, I think that you're so focused on the specific case of the OP that you've missed the point of my post. That's fine. I expected contention over my use of the word "programming", and apparently I should have been more pedantic.
You could have made a useful comment and been polite. Something you could likely consider every time you open your mouth, and I don't mean that in a mean way. Hacker News helped me better modulate what I say.
It was useful to me. I was curious what languages/framework the OP did and I had no idea what scirra was until this post.
> and been polite.
Seriously? I don't see any types of aggression in tmikaeld's post.
> Something you could likely consider every time you open your mouth, and I don't mean that in a mean way. Hacker News helped me better modulate what I say.
This post just reeks of elitism. It's like immediately discrediting a comment simply because of one grammar/punctuation mistake.
Said C coder will be so incensed that they will suffer a stroke, then start speaking in LISP.
Any experiences or tips on how to get 15 again in terms of productivity? :)
I guess in your case, you would probably have to get some sort of job where they are a lot more lenient and give you time for side projects.
Keep up the good work kid, try lots of stuff out now, find something you like, then go deep. It only gets more fun :)
On top of that, add chores (if you have any), family events, and other misc distractions I'm sure you don't have that much free time. I mean, don't sell yourself short. It's not like you just get to work on stuff 16 hours a day and nothing else.
Sadly, I'm 36, married with a < 2 year old son. Wife is social (so lots of distractions) and I'm an escapist (love to read) and lazy, so I'm seriously envious of you and the OP's dedication and success at such a young age.
Nowadays you can get 100 users pretty easily just by releasing the game. 100 users back then was something I dreamed about reaching some day :)
I doubt anyone ever did.
My conclusion is I would encourage them to be more like this kid, but not actually force my will in the end.
Speaking as a game developer, this is remarkably bad advice for a young gamedev to follow. It doesn't matter whether or not they're "his". It matters that he continues creating. That's the most important thing. He's not making money off of other people's work. He's building a skillset that will serve him for a lifetime. Wasting time fitting society's arbitrary moral standard is time not spent becoming a better gamedev.
Even if he's served with a DCMA takedown notice for some of his apps, it doesn't matter even slightly, because the app isn't the end goal. Talent is. And the way to foster talent is to not stop working.
I'd encourage him to pursue art if he wants to, as it's also a skill which will serve him the rest of his life -- the creators of Minecraft, Super Meat Boy, and World of Goo were all artist-programmers, which seems more than a coincidence -- but it's not a requirement to be a gamedev.
Anyway, it doesn't matter if his apps are taken down, because growing his skillset is the most important thing, not the apps themselves. No one will fine him or take him to jail, so as long as he's aware that maybe the app might get pulled, then using other people's characters is the best possible thing a young gamedev can do. And plus there's a good chance no one will care.
Second, If, as you say, the app isn't the end goal, then don't release it and this issue doesn't even come up.
Third, you said "Wasting time fitting society's arbitrary moral standard is time not spent becoming a better gamedev."
As a parent, that is exactly why I would encourage him to create his own characters. It's not at all an arbitrary moral standard. Is theft an arbitrary moral standard? Plagiarism? If you don't have permission to use the characters, don't use them. These games are available on the official MS site right next to the official ones. Why go down the path of having to potentially have your account suspended, or whatever the punishment is if MS decides your apps are infringing.
Finally, What do you tell the kid the first time they have a successful project and someone rips it off? Don't get upset, you did it when you started, so it's ok? It doesn't matter that he's just getting his start, stealing these characters is just like stealing the source code an releasing it as your own. Are we condoning that as well? In my opinion, it's just as important to learn integrity as it is to build the app.
There are enough issues with writing your own games, you have just made it that much harder.
Of course there are also lots of free assets out there for use, but designers are more hesitant than developers to give stuff out for free.
Also: http://www.glitchthegame.com/public-domain-game-art/
I encourage my kids to yoink assets for their projects. Once you've succeeded a bit, and feel comfortable with one piece of the puzzle, by all means, work on the next and make custom characters and graphics. It is non-trivial skill and experience, and come later.
Can't find the game anymore, but I had edited the chirppy sprite (http://i.imgur.com/ccSY4RE.png) to be holding and firing a bow.
I ended up getting a A- on my final for using assets that weren't mine. That's pretty small compared to the sort of things you could run into when you're actually putting this stuff on an app store.
I'd recommend toying around with a sprite editor and getting familiar with pixel art techniques like dithering. You might even enjoy it as much as coding!