Ask HN: One month into dev job and I'm recruited for one with twice the salary
Things could be better (and better-managed), and I'm anxious to work full-time on a startup (currently doing 2 hours every morning on the side), but overall it's a good job and a good experience and I thought it'd be educational to be here at least until early next year. However, the other day I got a LinkedIn message from a recruiter for a local startup that's raised gads of cash and is already drawing a lot of revenue. He said I sounded like a good fit, and he really wanted to interview me (according to TechCrunch they're hiring three people a week). I make $75K + about $50K of RSU now, but he was offering up to $150K and other really nice benefits. And I'd probably be happier working for a startup than a larger company (but they have enough employees that I'd still get the mentorship I was looking for).
I responded and said it sounded great but it was a really bad time since I'd just started my current job. And he responded encouraging me to interview anyway and see where things led.
I am an at-will employee, so in theory I could skip out, but I'd feel like a giant douchebag if I did so. On the other hand, if everything pans out (I'm not being deceived by slimy recruiter tactics; they accept me; I like the company...) it's a really great opportunity. I'm happy to answer any other questions.
What would you recommend?
Thanks
[HN user for a long time; throwaway for obvious reasons]
40 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 112 ms ] threadI disagree. You don't owe your employer anything.
Why is that? Is life always better with more money?
If the OP is happy with the amount of money he is already making, why should he look for ever-higher salaries?
Getting a modest raise frequently happens, but doubling your salary in one career jump is pretty rare. Doubling a salary is too big of an increase to ignore for most people.
More money can buy you more security (unexpected medical bills...), free time (why not take 6 months off to travel?), and opportunity (I'm gona fund my own startup!) that OP might not be considering at the moment. With the future being uncertain, and all other things being equal between the jobs, it would be silly not to take the money.
Worst case, you shove it in a savings account/index fund and never think about it again.
Longer runway.
However, you should look out for yourself most of all. Does the extra income matter that much for you? Is it good for your career? What are the pros & cons of this new potential employer (commute, line of business, work environment, etc.)?
It's a difficult question, but one you have to come to terms with.
If they offer you the job, you've got three options. 1) take it and leave your current employer 2) keep your current job and pretend you never interviewed 3) (if you still are unsure about leaving) tell your current employer about the offer you've been made (you may not be allowed to give details, but you can give enough) and see if they counter offer.
Then, you can make an informed decision.
I think (and hope) you'll find your current employer very accommodating. If another start-up is offering you double the salary, your current employer should know they are getting a heck of a deal with you. They also likely know that 'deal' wouldn't last forever.
Or maybe they won't want to offer you more, and just expect you to stick with them for other reasons. Who knows, but you'll never find out unless you dip a foot in to test the temperature.
I hadn't done this before last year, and I have to admit, it does feel strange talking to a potential new employer while somebody else is currently employing you, but this is the new nature of the game. Your current employer (likely) doesn't expect you to stick around forever. Doesn't mean they don't care about you, they just know the reality.
> tell your current employer about the offer you've been made ... and see if they counter offer.
That seems like it would come off as worse than taking the new job. If I was OP's current company I'd see that as 'not only did you shop around first couple weeks here, but you're now rubbing it in our faces and expecting us to reward you.'
"Listen, I really like working here, I like that you guys do x,y,z, that I have the option to learn from/about/with.. whatever, but I've just had a great offer from Acme company, and I was going to take it, but wanted to talk to you guys about it before I accept."
That way the company understands why the person is leaving, that they haven't agreed to leave yet, it is in the employers hands to keep the employee if they want to.
We have a fairly small industry (and even if we didn't) you're going to be running into the same people again and again though your career. Neither side should be hurt in this. It's a business proposition. Friendships don't have to end, cooperation doesn't even have to end. MAKE SURE YOU ARE NOT LEAVING YOUR CURRENT EMPLOYER IN THE LURCH. Give them time for you to clean-up what you're working on and get it in a good state, etc. etc.
As long as you're professional (and the OP's original posts suggests he is professional and courteous), the current employer shouldn't take it as anything but.
And no matter what your approach, some bosses will take it one way, others another way! And that's OK, do what's right for you, don't make your choice based on whether you get a cold reception or not.
It's just business. Everyone knows that the quality employees almost always already have jobs - chances are good that your company also will poach candidates similarly.
Don't ever do this.
Leave or don't. If I'm your manager, the moment you expect me to counteroffer I'm planning on getting rid of you.
No offense, but you just told me, "Hey, I'm shopping around."
No offense, but that means, as a manager, I'd better start shopping around, too.
And, you want to leave a company on your own schedule rather than the company's schedule.
- Never say no - always negotiate.
- If you don't ask, the answer is no.
The reaction you shared is not particularly business savvy. Business relationships (contrary to lots of shitty analogies out there) are not like a friendship/romance.
>Leave or don't. If I'm your manager, the moment you expect me to counteroffer I'm planning on getting rid of you.
Why? What possible rational reason is this your reaction?
> No offense, but you just told me, "Hey, I'm shopping around."
Yes, they did. You just received an extra piece of information to use as a manager. Maybe this requires a re-evaluation of the current situation?
> No offense, but that means, as a manager, I'd better start shopping around, too.
Maybe or maybe not. That is one of the possible outcomes. But, it is not the only one. This is called 'jumping to conclusions'. Always negotiate. If you don't even think to ask, "is there anything that would make this person stay" then the answer is no.
> And, you want to leave a company on your own schedule rather than the company's schedule.
Of course. What wouldn't they?
The counter may or may not be the full 2x. They may counter lower and try to keep some fuzzy items like "You know what it's like here, you enjoy your job", etc.
The counter may involve more responsibility. Why is company Y valuing you at double? Do they expect you to take on different responsibilities? That's definitely going to be a factor in the discussion.
I agree with your general premise that most things are a negotiable. However it also depends on the situation and how the employee and employer approach the situation. "I got another offer so you should match it." is not a good way to approach a negotiation unless you are a star employee.
Rational reason? As a manager, I have deadlines to make, planning to carry out and crises to solve. You just added yourself to to my upcoming crisis list and impacted all three of those areas--especially if you are a star performer.
Ask for a raise? Sure, we can talk about it. Unhappy? Let's figure out how to fix that.
However, people are creatures of inertia. Once you've broken that inertia to the point that you have another job offer, let's be honest, there's probably too much that requires fixing in order to make you stay and make you happy.
And, you are also not considering the impact of this on the other 10+ people I'm managing. I don't want them to necessarily start interviewing to possibly get a raise even if I'm the better employer/job. Yeah, they may find that out, but it's a distraction, the grass is greener, etc. Or there may be a temporary bump while some competitor's group staffs up, but then there will be a corresponding layoff (seen it)--oh, gee, thanks, now all my salaries are up even after your group cratered. I was a junior employee when that happened and the group rehired some of those people (whom we desperately needed)--at a 20% salary cut--that was a management failure for the history books-- but it was a good lesson to a junior employee about understanding your negotiating position downside.
All told, if a good employee presents me with a competitor's offer I'm 99% certain to say, "Sorry to see you go. I'll give you a good reference." I don't take it personally as I've left jobs for better salaries. That's the nature of the game nowadays.
Now, I will admit that a salary jump of 2x is unusual although I have been in that position. If that happens, the manager or the company have failed dramatically (in my instance it was both). Or, someone else really needs that employee (that was also the case for me). Either way, the employee should take the new job.
The good news is that you've only been on the job for a month, so if you do take the new job you won't look like a job hopper considering you won't even list this as a job.
As everyone said. Look out after yourself first and foremost. Don't burn any bridges with current employer either if you do decide to move on.
Good luck.
"I'd feel like a giant douchebag": Others have said that you don't need to feel that way about it. They're right. But if you're still going to feel that way, then don't do it. You've got to live with yourself, and the money isn't worth it at that price.
Rinse and repeat.
The winner wins an excellent developer.
The salary quoted by the recruiter is "up to". That figure was created when the recruiter asked the company how much they would potentially pay, max, and the CEO answered "well, up to $150k, if it's a really senior guy, like the inventor of jQuery or something". They won't give that sum to a junior guy like you. The recruiter quoted that amount just to lure you in.
Also, it's not an offer, it's a recruiter trying to get bodies into the door of that company. It's similar to you finding the same job ad on craigslist, except that the latter would have a better chance to get you hired, because there's no recruiter involved that has to be paid out.
I was in a similar situation, went to the interview, never heard from the company again, probably because I was too expensive (even though my demanded salary was less than the "up to" sum quoted by the recruiter.