Ask HN: How did you really learn a foreign language?

I learned so much in four months at that school that I was ahead of most Junior spanish majors when I got back. (I was also highly motivated to learn the language, and lived with a Spanish family. It's definitely possible to go to any language school and not learn a lot if you don't make the effort.)

I went back there a couple years later and did another semester... but at this point I have full command of the grammar, and just need to work on vocabulary. For that, all you need is some spanish speakers to talk to.

Having studied a number of languages, I've come to believe that being forced to speak and write at the outer limit of your ability is the most effective way to learn a foreign language (listening and reading will come effortlessly as a side effect). However this is somewhat expensive, emotionally tiring (adults aren't used to the experience of constant failure and correction), and it can be hard to find someone who will really pounce on every mistake.

I've found intensive immersion programs with small classes to be a good second-best, especially at the beginner level where progress is very rapid and you have a chance to internalize proper phonetics and grammar.

A possibly useful image: you have about ten thousand wrong sentences you have to get out of you before you are speaking the language well, so you need to find someone who will help you get them out of your system as efficiently as possible.

The best way is complete immersion with real Spanish speakers. It also requires good social skills to connect with those people in a way that actually changes the way you speak and think to sound more natural in that language. People don't follow text-book rules in their own language.

The coursework system of language instruction is broken, because it measures your ability to pass a course, and this has little connection to really knowing a language.

I don't know what part of the country you're in (or even if you're in the US), but if you can find a way to start buying Spanish newspapers and watching Spanish television, you'll be in much better shape than if you just tried structured education.

I then forgot about French until I was in my early 20s. I met my wife. She's French. I figured I'd better make an effort to speak French.

Having someone to talk to meant I could make all sorts of errors and get corrected. But she was the wrong person to tell me about French grammar. I tried taking classes in a local college but they were awful. Eventually I paid a Swiss woman to teach me French grammar. Very quickly I realized that the rules of French drilled into me at school were lurking in my head and that all that rote learning was very, very useful. I took lessons for about 6 months for two hours once a week.

Now I speak French fluently.

http://learninfreedom.org/languagebooks.html

has some detailed suggestions. Read as much as you can in Spanish, and listen to as much Spanish as you can at every opportunity, and you will improve in Spanish.

I majored in Chinese in university, back when following my advice above was hard for that language in my town, and then lived overseas in Taiwan, Hong Kong, and China. Listening to the radio helped a LOT when I first arrived in country.

also, this might sound weird, but I sometimes forced myself to "think" in the language I was learning.. this was a good practice as it made me more articulate by mapping words to mental images

It's common here for middle-class young people to take English courses for several years. I took one for six years, then one more year of a conversation course. That, along with watching movies and TV (and reading and listening to music, and...) took me far enough.

Then, a couple of years back, I went to California to live there for a whole year and I must say that made a whole lot of difference.

http://www.amazon.com/Language-Acquisition-Made-Practical-Le...

Language Acquisition Made Practical by Brewster & Brewster

It's from the 70s and way out of print. It's written by these two Christian missionaries who went to many countries where no one could speak their language, and they developed a framework for 'barefoot language learning'. It's excellent way to design your own course. It boils down to find a language partner, and then follow the methods in this book.

I became frustrated with the way a lot of language courses are structured. They are so damn boring and suck the fun of discovery out of the language learning process. From the reading I have done on language acquisition, language classes should more closely mimic how children learn a language naturally. LAMP gets you closer to this model.

Also, this book is an excellent tool: http://www.lexicarry.com/

There's nothing but a bunch of pictures in the book, describing different nouns, verbs, and adjectives...all with NO English. You can use this with a conversation partner to learn many many useful words in a more organic way than memorizing a list of vocabulary with their english translation counterparts.

Also, basically what everyone has said thus far. You need to live in the culture, and more than anything, make friends who will speak the language with you.

The best way to learn is to have no choice but to speak the language. Then don't be afraid to fail. I learned Indonesian by speaking to taxi drivers and any other locals I came in contact with. Same process I used with Javanese.

The trick is to start with a basic vocabulary and set of phrases. Then treat the phrases as templates and swap words in and out. You'll be wrong a lot, but the native speaker might phrase it correctly and repeat it back... just repeat what they said and smile. Repeat this process until you're fluent. :)

Total immersion is the fastest and best way to learn a language. Arguably, it's the only way you will ever be fluent.

If you want to learn Spanish but can't move to a Spanish speaking country, see if you can find a local Spanish-speaking family to "foster" you - offer to pay them rent to live with them for awhile, on the condition that they only speak Spanish to/around you.

Once I knew the basics, I was able to learn a bit more from friends and neighbors, especially children. Eventually I ended up dating and marrying a local. Even though she spoke fluent English, we would try to use the local language for anything not too detailed. This increased my vocabulary and comprehension.

Once I was able to use and understand words, a book that described some of the theory and formalities of the grammar really helped improve my ability to express myself. I went from "cargo cult speaking" to actually knowing why I was using the structures I used.

I still don't know as much as I'd like, and for more complicated statements, I have to use English.

For your situation, I wouldn't expect to get too much out of a "101" course, but if you really want to learn, you'll have many opportunities, especially with Spanish. Try to talk to the staff at Mexican restaurants, and write down any words or phrases you don't know, to look up later.

There is no substitute for hours speaking (and listening). That will give you plenty of opportunities to learn new words, new idioms used by different people, provide plenty of opportunities for people to politely correct you, and most importantly, improve your confidence in your abilities.

I don't know what American schools do wrong, but Europeans have little trouble teaching kids to have a working knowledge of foreign languages in the same number of years.

The brute force approach would be to live in a place where the language you're trying to learn is native. English is my 3rd language but I didn't get really fluent in it until moving to the US.

In the meantime, read all the books you can so you don't start from zero when you get there (although it will feel like you are starting from zero the first few days).

That said, I believe there's no better way to learn a language than to live in the country and not speak English.

I was a diplomat brat and at various points in my life I could speak Bahasa Malay, Italian, and Hokien (does anyone even know what that is). However they all fell into disuse when I moved. But the reason I became fluent was because I was immersed in the people, all the kids, TV, everything.

I know many American teachers in Thailand who live in American neighborhoods and eat where foreigners eat. As a result they never learn any Thai.

Curiously, once I was able to read Guitar Player in the bus without a dictionary by my side, I also became able to understand spoken English. I don't know why, really. I suppose I had gathered enough data from reading the magazine to be able to extract meaning from context not only when reading, but when listening to spoken English too.

The wierd thing is that I can remember foreign names with NO trouble. French names, Japanese (Masayoshi Son), etc.

Destiños. A UIUC/public television teaching show with a running story.

http://www.learner.org/resources/series75.html

Find music in the language, with lyrics, that you like. When learning German and French, I listened to pop music that friends recommended. A lot of language learning is not specifically semantic; train your ears (and brain) to the sound of the language. Sung lyrics can also emphasize aspects of pronunciation and colloquial use in a way other sources may not.

Find engaging activities that use the language. Much more motivating. And allow yourself to be entertained by the process. Don't focus just on the end goal of being fluent; enjoy the learning process and each moment of use.

Any opportunity to be surrounded by the language, and especially when you are forced to use it, will greatly increase your fluency. Not being too concerned about making mistakes and just speaking as much as you can is also important. Immersion and free usage after a base of grammar/vocab study is what works for me.