For all sorts of reasons, multipliers like the CoL adjustment in this article don't work for New York. (And really, they don't work in general.) To be "equally well off," there are a lot more factors than living in an equally-sized apartment with an identical car ... after all, living in a place that doesn't suck counts for something. As does not needing that car. Or having an immense amount of stuff to do (much of which is free or close) that keeps you out of that apartment.
On a personal level as a NYC resident, I live in a nice apartment in a nice (though not ritzy) neighborhood for $600/month, my transportation costs are $100/month and everything else is just about the same as it would be elsewhere. Every time I think about moving somewhere else, I have a hard time figuring out how I could come close to my current level of expenses without sacrificing quality of life.
To be fair, "living in a place that doesn't suck" is largely why the cost of living is so different between places. It's the other side of the equation that makes people pay the extra money. Though I agree with you that calling it "equally well off" is giving it too much credit for what it measures.
Absolutely. While apartments are smaller and more expensive per square foot in NYC, the city itself calls you out. You spend time in a park; at a sidewalk cafe; on a friend's (or your own) roof-deck. I guestimate that I spend 50% more time outdoors living here in the city than I did living in a suburb down in NC. I also spend a lot less in transportation costs, and go to a lot more concerts.
While, according to this guy's statistics, NYC is the poorest.. well, that's not taking into account the culture, the convenience, and so forth.
(I'm in a share with a couple friends; My monthly bills - including rent [utilities included], phone, and transportation - are about $900. If you consider that a job that would pay $30k elsewhere will pay $40 or $50k here, and that if you're smart you can live on the cheap - you'll be able to retire a lot sooner if you plan on retiring out of the city, because the money that doesn't go far here goes very far elsewhere..)
I just read "The Corner", about life on the drug dealing corners in West Baltimore. (It was the basis for the show "The Wire".) When they quote a cost of living for "Baltimore", do they average over all parts, even the ones where no one wants to live unless you really are using all your cash for drugs and can't afford the hundred bucks a month it would cost you extra to live one block away from the drug dealers?? Because that average would seem to indicate an unfairly low cost of living then...
How have they accounted for purchasing residences in New York? Which, unlike almost everywhere else, has not seen a precipitous decline in property value?
CoLA figures for New York are B.S. They're all based on buying an identical basket of goods. New Yorkers don't buy the same goods. 54% of New Yorkers don't have cars, because we have good mass transit. New Yorkers live in smaller apartments and don't have gardens, because we usually opt for walkability and nearby culture and entertainment instead of square footage. If you want the square footage instead of the walkability, you move to the suburbs of New York... problem solved.
It is damn expensive to rent, but once you subtract out car payments, car insurance, car maintenance, and gas you can save $1000 a month easily that goes towards rent.
I think costs in New York can be crazy if you live a certain kind of lifestyle. But I think we're just used to living with less of certain things (mostly due to our space restrictions) that don't necessarily translate well across other cities (We rented a whole house in Cambridge when we were there for YC last summer for about what you'd spend on an apartment 1/3 the size in New York).
There are certain things that augment the high cost of living though:
* We don't drive cars and most of us take mass transit most of the time.
* We buy fewer possessions (no place to put them). A side benefit is that when you do buy something, you tend to buy better quality.
* When we do buy something, it usually involves recycling or selling what we had before.
* We don't see our living space as our own private paradise. We don't tend to duplicate resources the public already has. We have parks instead of lawns. We'll use taxis and zipcar when we need them instead of owning cars.
* We tend to live very close to where we work and could walk there if necessary.
* Restaurants face a large amount of competition. You can get excellent food with excellent ambiance for less money than I was used to paying for a comparable experience elsewhere.
* Lots of free or nearly free experiences. Art, museums, concerts, performances, groups, and lectures.
The way I feel about (or rationalize) New York City is that I get to live in a place that offers so much more for only a slight premium on what I'd pay to live in San Francisco.
The big down side is that you miss out on the tech community in SF, although others argue that this can be a net positive.
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[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 30.3 ms ] threadOn a personal level as a NYC resident, I live in a nice apartment in a nice (though not ritzy) neighborhood for $600/month, my transportation costs are $100/month and everything else is just about the same as it would be elsewhere. Every time I think about moving somewhere else, I have a hard time figuring out how I could come close to my current level of expenses without sacrificing quality of life.
While, according to this guy's statistics, NYC is the poorest.. well, that's not taking into account the culture, the convenience, and so forth.
(I'm in a share with a couple friends; My monthly bills - including rent [utilities included], phone, and transportation - are about $900. If you consider that a job that would pay $30k elsewhere will pay $40 or $50k here, and that if you're smart you can live on the cheap - you'll be able to retire a lot sooner if you plan on retiring out of the city, because the money that doesn't go far here goes very far elsewhere..)
It is damn expensive to rent, but once you subtract out car payments, car insurance, car maintenance, and gas you can save $1000 a month easily that goes towards rent.
Getting around NYC costs $89 a month.
$1000/month in car payments = $2000/month in pretax salary. That means a $60,000 salary in NY goes as far as an $84,000 salary - car costs.
I wasn't spending anywhere near that when I was making payments and now that the car is paid for, I'm spending even less.
Of course, my car isn't in NYC, but if NYC is causing cars to be expensive, that's on NYC, not cars.
There are certain things that augment the high cost of living though: * We don't drive cars and most of us take mass transit most of the time. * We buy fewer possessions (no place to put them). A side benefit is that when you do buy something, you tend to buy better quality. * When we do buy something, it usually involves recycling or selling what we had before. * We don't see our living space as our own private paradise. We don't tend to duplicate resources the public already has. We have parks instead of lawns. We'll use taxis and zipcar when we need them instead of owning cars. * We tend to live very close to where we work and could walk there if necessary. * Restaurants face a large amount of competition. You can get excellent food with excellent ambiance for less money than I was used to paying for a comparable experience elsewhere. * Lots of free or nearly free experiences. Art, museums, concerts, performances, groups, and lectures.
The way I feel about (or rationalize) New York City is that I get to live in a place that offers so much more for only a slight premium on what I'd pay to live in San Francisco.
The big down side is that you miss out on the tech community in SF, although others argue that this can be a net positive.