Startups are cash-poor, prone to bankruptcy, and full of insane deadlines requiring people to pull small miracles just to make payroll.
Would love to hear more about what makes them ideal freelance clients. As a former contractor/freelancer, I specifically made a point of staying far, far away from these kinds of clients.
If you're in it for the money, early stage startups are not the way to go as far as clients go. As I mentioned in the post I do it because I love startups and working on MVPs specifically. It also lets me get my mind off my own startup and see how others do things differently.
That's why joining an early-stage startup as an employee is often not attractive. But building MVPs for "startups" isn't necessarily unattractive. Obviously, you want to stay away from broke "seeking co-founder" types, but there are plenty of people out there capable and willing to invest $xx,xxx in their new businesses.
As an example, I believe Kevin Rose took his savings ($10,000 if I remember correctly) and paid a freelancer he found on Elance to build the first version of Digg.
The "seeking co-founder" types I was referring to are folks looking for a technical co-founder who they can partner with. They don't want a service provider, and many of them don't want to pay you cash, or can't pay you cash. Instead, they offer to compensate you with equity or revenue share.
I asked because I have partnered in part-time with a "seeking co-founder" folk few years ago ... I think I took it because I wasn't experienced neither.
It's not great. But turns out okay. It did become a passive income. (I know it's very rare to happen.)
I met with a "seeking technical cofounder" who's initial position was 'my idea is so amazing that they will be very lucky to get to be involved, they wet surprised when I said they will likely struggle to find one. What helped the most when I reframed it as 'the programmer has limited capacity and your asking them to work for free for you for a year'. He saw it didn't seem like such a good deal when put that way.
I've been doing this full-time for the last year. It's worked well for me in the SF area because it's a lot easier to get in the door for new companies/products than with established companies that already have dev teams. I also like working on brand new products and technologies and startups are great for that. :)
The main lesson I've learned working with startups is that consulting is always easier working for people that are spending other people's money. The guy who spent the last year saving $10K of his personal earnings to build his genius daily deals for big data social mobile app? He's going to try to squeeze you for everything he can get. The startup that raised a $1.5MM series A? Going to treat dealings like a business negotiation and probably be less emotional to deal with.
That being said, you still want to manage risk based on who you're dealing with. If I'm consulting for a company with $50MM in revenues and 200 employees, I'm not worried about them going under tomorrow, so I'll let them pay me monthly net-30. If I'm consulting for a 5 person startup that's operating on a seed round, I'll usually require weekly net-7 or net-15. I've started avoiding companies that seem sketchy or are operating off personal savings, but if I was going to work with those types of clients in the future, I'd do a prepaid retainer.
Of course, this varies on a case-by-case basis so YMMV.
The work is interesting. I've been consulting for a few startups doing MVP development and it was a lot of fun getting those first few decisions off the ground and doing a bunch of product as well as code work. It depends on the length/terms of the deal, of course. I wouldn't do it as a full-time career but it was great to fill a few months of creative time while I was working on my own projects and deciding what the hell to do next. I ended up joining one of the startups I was consulting for :)
As Thomas has mentioned, if you can budget an employee, you can budget a consultant. There certainly exist cash-poor startups who don't know where their next bowl of ramen is coming from, but there also exist startups with dozens or hundreds of employees.
there's a huge difference in what a startup is when it's 3-4 guys vs hundreds. The latter is not much different as working for any other company, and you can probably get paid in cash.
I am currently working full-time remotely on the MVP of an interesting start-up. I get paid relatively low fees and some equity (the discussions are on). I am doing this because I like being in 100% control of the development process and deeply involved with the creation of the product itself. It's a great learning opportunity that can come in handy when you get around to working on your own product someday.
Those equity discussions... why not finalize those asap? Your negotiation power dimishes as the product nears completion, as success is becoming more likely and as other people are coming in and contribute.
It's just that I don't intend to stay with this project after the MVP stage, and don't want further commitment. Insisting on equity will make things complicated.
I'm a full-time freelance programmer, and over the last 4 years I've done several projects for clients like these, though generally I do work for agencies/shops.
For reference, typical projects include a product matching software to link buyers at large chain stores with product (spectacular failure, by the way) and yet another professional certification automation site.
First and foremost, it's interesting, typically greenfield work where I don't have to come up to speed on old code.
Second, I'm am earlier in my career, and it has been a really good way of getting relevant, larger-scale projects into my CV.
Third, I can charge the same rate as I do with my agency clients and that makes them super happy because they aren't paying the agency but, at the same time, there are a lot of issues that I don't have when dealing directly with a typical agency client: generally, they feel more inclined/involved, get back to me quickly, have strong (usually well formed) opinions.
And while I can't really get a whole lot of money out of these clients, generally I get more than I would as a subcontractor on the project, which is quite a bit.
There are indeed bad projects in the space... I worked briefly on part of an optimizely clone where although I personally liked the principles and thought they had an interesting product, they were very unorganized and generally hard to work with... but that's true of any space and at least I don't have an agency pressuring me to do the project even thought I think it is bad situation.... which, in the end is the best reason: I can walk away from these things if they don't go well, having been paid well, but less than they would have spent on an employee or hired a firm.
Thinking about it maybe that bit of risk management indicates that it's not so much that these are "ideal" freelance clients, but rather than being a freelance is a better kind of relationship for both sides in terms of managing risk.
Well, my own startup is also making a little money, and I resort to a couple of life hacks to get extra income and reduce costs. I'll write another post about that soon.
Hmm what kind of fee do you charge and what are you spending that 40 hrs/month would not be enough? For me thats about 4k euros which is plenty to live on, go on vacation and save money.
I am in the exact same line of work as the author. I can't imagine working the way he describes.
It's great that he's made this lifestyle work for him, but I'm not convinced I'd like to be one of his clients. A technology company with a developer on staff one day per week? Coordinating a project is difficult enough when everybody is full-time. ("Sure thing, I'll tackle that bug in six days" is not a recipe for a functional sprint.)
My solution has been to charge hard at whatever milestone I've committed to, working as a de facto team member, and then taking the next month off. This works well with my lifestyle, since I try to take each project in a new city and I live cheaply.
What I would say to the author: you want fulfilling? Participate in the optimistic urgency of a new tech venture fully - then take your time off when you've finished. If you can't afford to spend that much time away from developing your startup, then how can you expect your clients to wait while you take time off from theirs?
I agree that the way I work is definitely not for everyone, and I only accept projects where I am confident that the client sees eye to eye with me. It wouldn't work if I was the only developer working on the project. There are several other, more junior developers on the team who work more hours than I do.
The client is very happy with the arrangement because it ends up costing much less than if I was on the team full-time and he is sure that every day I work is a day where things actually move forward significantly. He rather gets frustrated when freelancers charge several days of work and little progress seems to occur. There is at least a perception of lesser waste of time/money when work is concentrated over a small period of time, and I would argue that there is less actual waste.
I have kind of stumbled on to the same line, though I'm in the early stages of getting over the shock of it all as it was not something I was looking to do and considering where I am located (India), I never would have thought it would be possible.
I guess there is no one right way to do this. A lot depends on your own abilities, strengths and the terms in which you can get clients. If you have leverage and can deliver well, the timing is not an issue.
In any case, I'm glad there are more people doing the same :)
I've seen something like this before. If a freelancer doesn't work as much as employees, they can cherry-pick what they want to do. I've seen freelancers excellent at this cherry-picking. They can get a hell of a lot done because they choose the greenest of greenfield programming.
Observe what the author says:
• "It wouldn't work if I was the only developer working on the project."
• "There are several other, more junior developers on the team who work more hours than I do." Yes, works better if you have power to set the direction, more bargaining power than employees, and have your voice heard more (perhaps due to more experience, or aggressiveness, etc).
This isn't a condemnation; workplaces are inherently political, which means I play politics regardless of whether I admit it. (Also means I've needed to observe others' political games.)
I'm also thinking about doing some freelance work right now.
One thing I'm unsure about is if it's wise to do consulting in the same space my startup is in (fitness & health data aggregation and analysis), or if I should stick to unrelated technical work (java, elasticsearch, angularjs), to avoid potential trouble with non-compete agreements and such.
Client: 'What should we do now?'
You: We'll I've thought on this for ages, here's the answer but it's hard one knowledge from my startup, how much do I share?
I think startups are a viable option for many types of freelancers now.
I've been freelancing in mentoring start-ups for the last 6 months. Everyone told me startups have no money and that it's a fruitless pursuit but here i am talking to 1 new startup almost every single day.
I always give them the first session free (no time limit) and more than two-thirds come back for a paid session.
I've mentored around 60 startups in the last 3 months alone (all around the globe).
Most fun i've ever heard. Incredibly rewarding. In fact, i'm now working on building an actual mentoring platform.
I spend the rest of my time consulting small to medium size companies.
How do you find these clients? I ve done this kind of work arrangement, and like it, but replicating this kind of arrangement doesnt seem to be so easy, at least to me.
I've been doing this for the past 7 years, from big data to social sites, to single page apps to chat/video applications and more. I have to say its been the best way to learn about different technology and to solve new problems. Also the fast pace environment is something I like.
Depending on my workload sometimes I do that.If the client has more then enough work to keep me busy I wont hesitate to make room from them. As for how long, some have been short as a few months, others 4-6months+ the longest was around 2 years.
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[ 4.6 ms ] story [ 90.9 ms ] threadWould love to hear more about what makes them ideal freelance clients. As a former contractor/freelancer, I specifically made a point of staying far, far away from these kinds of clients.
As an example, I believe Kevin Rose took his savings ($10,000 if I remember correctly) and paid a freelancer he found on Elance to build the first version of Digg.
It's not great. But turns out okay. It did become a passive income. (I know it's very rare to happen.)
The main lesson I've learned working with startups is that consulting is always easier working for people that are spending other people's money. The guy who spent the last year saving $10K of his personal earnings to build his genius daily deals for big data social mobile app? He's going to try to squeeze you for everything he can get. The startup that raised a $1.5MM series A? Going to treat dealings like a business negotiation and probably be less emotional to deal with.
That being said, you still want to manage risk based on who you're dealing with. If I'm consulting for a company with $50MM in revenues and 200 employees, I'm not worried about them going under tomorrow, so I'll let them pay me monthly net-30. If I'm consulting for a 5 person startup that's operating on a seed round, I'll usually require weekly net-7 or net-15. I've started avoiding companies that seem sketchy or are operating off personal savings, but if I was going to work with those types of clients in the future, I'd do a prepaid retainer.
Of course, this varies on a case-by-case basis so YMMV.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_30
They talked about requesting weekly billing which is paid upfront, eliminating collection issues.
[1](http://www.freelancersshow.com/the-freelancers-show-097-week...)
I've heard of deals where say I discount my rate by X in exchange for Y% equity. Would love some rule of thumb numbers of what X and Y are.
For reference, typical projects include a product matching software to link buyers at large chain stores with product (spectacular failure, by the way) and yet another professional certification automation site.
First and foremost, it's interesting, typically greenfield work where I don't have to come up to speed on old code.
Second, I'm am earlier in my career, and it has been a really good way of getting relevant, larger-scale projects into my CV.
Third, I can charge the same rate as I do with my agency clients and that makes them super happy because they aren't paying the agency but, at the same time, there are a lot of issues that I don't have when dealing directly with a typical agency client: generally, they feel more inclined/involved, get back to me quickly, have strong (usually well formed) opinions.
And while I can't really get a whole lot of money out of these clients, generally I get more than I would as a subcontractor on the project, which is quite a bit.
There are indeed bad projects in the space... I worked briefly on part of an optimizely clone where although I personally liked the principles and thought they had an interesting product, they were very unorganized and generally hard to work with... but that's true of any space and at least I don't have an agency pressuring me to do the project even thought I think it is bad situation.... which, in the end is the best reason: I can walk away from these things if they don't go well, having been paid well, but less than they would have spent on an employee or hired a firm.
Thinking about it maybe that bit of risk management indicates that it's not so much that these are "ideal" freelance clients, but rather than being a freelance is a better kind of relationship for both sides in terms of managing risk.
It's great that he's made this lifestyle work for him, but I'm not convinced I'd like to be one of his clients. A technology company with a developer on staff one day per week? Coordinating a project is difficult enough when everybody is full-time. ("Sure thing, I'll tackle that bug in six days" is not a recipe for a functional sprint.)
My solution has been to charge hard at whatever milestone I've committed to, working as a de facto team member, and then taking the next month off. This works well with my lifestyle, since I try to take each project in a new city and I live cheaply.
What I would say to the author: you want fulfilling? Participate in the optimistic urgency of a new tech venture fully - then take your time off when you've finished. If you can't afford to spend that much time away from developing your startup, then how can you expect your clients to wait while you take time off from theirs?
The client is very happy with the arrangement because it ends up costing much less than if I was on the team full-time and he is sure that every day I work is a day where things actually move forward significantly. He rather gets frustrated when freelancers charge several days of work and little progress seems to occur. There is at least a perception of lesser waste of time/money when work is concentrated over a small period of time, and I would argue that there is less actual waste.
I guess there is no one right way to do this. A lot depends on your own abilities, strengths and the terms in which you can get clients. If you have leverage and can deliver well, the timing is not an issue.
In any case, I'm glad there are more people doing the same :)
Observe what the author says:
• "It wouldn't work if I was the only developer working on the project."
• "There are several other, more junior developers on the team who work more hours than I do." Yes, works better if you have power to set the direction, more bargaining power than employees, and have your voice heard more (perhaps due to more experience, or aggressiveness, etc).
This isn't a condemnation; workplaces are inherently political, which means I play politics regardless of whether I admit it. (Also means I've needed to observe others' political games.)
One thing I'm unsure about is if it's wise to do consulting in the same space my startup is in (fitness & health data aggregation and analysis), or if I should stick to unrelated technical work (java, elasticsearch, angularjs), to avoid potential trouble with non-compete agreements and such.
Client: 'What should we do now?' You: We'll I've thought on this for ages, here's the answer but it's hard one knowledge from my startup, how much do I share?
I've been freelancing in mentoring start-ups for the last 6 months. Everyone told me startups have no money and that it's a fruitless pursuit but here i am talking to 1 new startup almost every single day.
I always give them the first session free (no time limit) and more than two-thirds come back for a paid session.
I've mentored around 60 startups in the last 3 months alone (all around the globe).
Most fun i've ever heard. Incredibly rewarding. In fact, i'm now working on building an actual mentoring platform.
I spend the rest of my time consulting small to medium size companies.