Sharing an apartment for a night is not like selling things on ebay or amazon. People use services like AirBnB, couchsurfing etc at the cost of their security. That's one hurdle these kind of business may face. Any thoughts?
Also, these kind of violations need to be taken seriously.
The news site seems to be driving a healthy bit of traffic to couchsurfing.com as well, the site is terribly slow right now. There is no such thing as bad publicity it seems.
So if the trial takes a year, reporters should be barred from disclosing his name until the conclusion?
It's a slippery slope when you start dictating which facts a newspaper can and cannot print.
The newspaper article is a pretty straightforward account of the facts that have been presented at a public trial. It is unfortunate that there are people who will automatically assume these accusations are 100% true without waiting for a verdict.
But newspapers shouldn't withhold facts or information just because other people might use them to jump to damaging conclusions.
I have no problems with his name being everywhere if he is convicted, but at this point it's his word against hers. I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that his life is basically ruined. If he IS innocent, then I find this just as frightening, if not more frightening, than the alleged acts.
the article says that there were three other people who stayed with him and he tried something similar, but couldn't since he was out numbered. This SOUNDS like he is "probably" guilty, but definitely doesn't mean that he definitely is.. and, like you said, if he is innocent, his life is ruined.
Its sad.. if its true, then the poor girls life is probably messed up now - if its not true, then the guys life is messed up... :-(
1. Sad that the society has come to "guilty unless proven innocent" instead of "innocent until proven guilty".
2. Another cunning headline. Why can't they say "Man accused of.." instead of "man allegedly..". Say anything. Just add 'allegedly' in front of the statement and you are safe.
Actually, that site works under English court reporting rules. He is named because he is the defendant in a criminal trial in progress.
The news site didn't 'make him a rapist' - the Crown Prosecution Service did so by having him charged. Until charged he cannot be named in a newspaper by law.
Yes, and yes. Guests can write positive/negative reviews about their hosts, and vice versa. Those reviews will show up on the user's profile. Statistics are also available to see how often a host has hosted travelers, whether they have been vouched for by very active members of the community, etc...
You can (and should) also verify your name and address with the system (it then shows on your profile that your name and address are verified) and people can vouch for each other.
When you look for a host, you would normally read their profile and look a their pictures to try and get an idea on the kind of person they may be. You check if they're verified and how many people vouched for them. Low numbers and not being verified may be enough reason to choose someone else, especially if traveling alone, though personally, everyone has to start somewhere, so if Im in a group, I don't care so much. People can meet couchsurfers for drinks or at events anyway as a way to "break in". Finally, I'd check the comments people left. Most people who read comments take negative comments pretty seriously, though obviously some people don't bother.
Over all, I think this works pretty well. The biggest danger would be to people who are using couchsurfing purely to get free accommodation, since they're unlikely to put as much effort into checking people out beforehand. Personally, I don't bother, unless I'm being hosted or they're hosting me - if its for a meeting or a drink, then I'll see what they're like when I meet them.
Obviously this system leaves plenty of room for problems.. Sadly its not too hard to misrepresent yourself. It seems extremely rare though, luckily.
Personally, I've never had ANY problems of any kind and ave not met any couchsurfers who have had any either. It does work - usually.
Yeah, you're right. We should also make dates illegal as date rape is quite common as well. Don't trust anybody. Just close your door and don't leave your home. Don't forget about security cameras, a loaded gun within reach etc.
You never know! People are evil. ;-)
Yeah, the difference is 100$+ a day. In other words it's whether you can afford it or not to travel. Most people can't afford travel until they get a real job which nowadays might be well in their thirties. On the other hand mostly young people travel around the world. So a site like this really makes the difference.
Such things are only a matter of degree. If you're staying in a hotel you're just trusting a different set of people with access to where you're sleeping.
People that have generally proven over time to be reliable and have received the appropriate licenses for operating a hotel. It's more than just a matter of degree.
This is an incredibly weak argument, because the actual hard data is here for everyone to see, and you are completely disregarding it in favour of an unconfirmed anecdote.
The CS community is pretty big, and according to the stats page (http://www.couchsurfing.org/statistics.html), there have been over 1.3 million positive traveling experiences. Your argument seems to be projecting one negative anecdote against that entire dataset. Criminality rates in pretty much any city are far beyond 1/1.3M, so do you also feel we should restrain from all social contact?
If anything, i actually see CS in general as a perfect example that generalized fears of insecurity are typically misplaced, and that while it's useful to take precautions, you are only really punishing yourself by not being more open to all the different cultures and perspectives available for free at your doorstep.
I don't know about AirBnB, but couchsurfing is NOT about savings - or it shouldn't be. Most hosts I know won;t host you if they feel you're only there to save money. Instead, its about a cultural exchange, about meeting new people and making new friends.
Well this was bound to happen sooner or later. Couchsurfing.com is just a way to come into contact with someone who may share a couch. They do some background checks with people vouching for others. But even then, there's no way to prevent something like this happening.
If you use the service, you're taking a risk and you'll have to be aware of that. It doesn't really seem smart as a woman alone to go sleep on a couch of some guy you met on the net.
I'm pretty active in the Dublin Group of couchsurfing and meet up with people regularly. Just last night a crowd of maybe 15 of us (most of us knew each other already, butt heres usually at least one new person there) went out in town. Its great fun and you meet great people.
I can't anymore, because my apartment is too small, but this time last year, I lived in a house with 4 other couchsurfers. We hosted people ALL THE TIME. I think over the 4 months that we hosted, we hosted 40 or so people. One weekend we hosted TWELVE people at once (there was an event on). Personally, I've NEVER had any problems and don't personally know anyone whos ever had problems. By now, I've met HUNDREDS of couchsurfers and have never heard of any personal bad experiences. Since we were all working too, often we weren't even at home. Often we gave people a key and let them come and go as they pleased and then hung out with them in the evenings. Not once did this cause problems. Never had anything stolen or broken, never had issues with privacy either (generally, people are quite considerate, if you want time alone).
Of course, I DONT have tens of thousands of dollars of tools and I don't have any firearms (besides airsoft guns) and I rarely have more than €100 in cash at home. I DO have computers though and laptops. I imagine the laptops would be the biggest target. But.. if I worry about something valuable, I lock it away.
Obviously there are risks and if you host someone or surf someone else's couch, you must be aware of the risks. Personally, I'm willing to take that risk - for me, the benefits are worth it. I've made tons of friends through couchsurfing and I find couchsurfers to be generally more open minded than others. I guess you have to be to share your home with strangers.
Couchsurfing is also not actually about free accommodation either. Its about a cultural exchange. About meeting people, making friends, learning something new. In this respect, I have found it to work exceptionally well.
Its sad when you hear of stories like this, though. It reminds you that there are bad people out there - and a site with as many members as couchsurfing is obviously going to have a few of these. I certainly hope theres not many, but I guess you never know for sure. I guess you need to be careful...
Naturally, because the media just could not control themselves to mention that this man is Moroccan, even though that has fairly little to do with what happened.
There are two possible angles to their motivation to mention this:
- this happened in Britain, but it involved two foreigners, it has nothing to do with 'us'
- Moroccans are all the same, here is the proof
It is interesting to note that some newspapers carefully elided this fact but published the rest of the story unchanged.
Whether or not he is muslim is cause for debate, nowhere does it say so. But hey, when you're inciting racial hatred facts are just so inconvenient.
The demographic of the accused is information I'd want to know.
While I'm sympathetic to the motives of those who want to suppress the race, nationality, or immigration status of the accused, this suppression itself inflames xenophobic sentiment in the long term ("we're victims of an anti-racist liberal media conspiracy!").
If some particularly strong riot-bait happened (e.g. the LAPD chase and beating of Rodney King), then I'd favor suppression if possible.
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[ 3.1 ms ] story [ 95.0 ms ] threadAlso, these kind of violations need to be taken seriously.
"An unidentified local man was accused of raping an unidentified female traveler" doesn't make for a very good article.
Not that that ever stopped any news organization from ruining some guys life by plastering his photo all over the net.
It's a slippery slope when you start dictating which facts a newspaper can and cannot print.
The newspaper article is a pretty straightforward account of the facts that have been presented at a public trial. It is unfortunate that there are people who will automatically assume these accusations are 100% true without waiting for a verdict.
But newspapers shouldn't withhold facts or information just because other people might use them to jump to damaging conclusions.
'trial by media' is not a very good thing imho.
It also tends to taint the judicial process because it gets harder to find people that have not been biased by information from the media.
Not cool.
I have no problems with his name being everywhere if he is convicted, but at this point it's his word against hers. I don't think it's too much of an exaggeration to say that his life is basically ruined. If he IS innocent, then I find this just as frightening, if not more frightening, than the alleged acts.
the article says that there were three other people who stayed with him and he tried something similar, but couldn't since he was out numbered. This SOUNDS like he is "probably" guilty, but definitely doesn't mean that he definitely is.. and, like you said, if he is innocent, his life is ruined.
Its sad.. if its true, then the poor girls life is probably messed up now - if its not true, then the guys life is messed up... :-(
2. Another cunning headline. Why can't they say "Man accused of.." instead of "man allegedly..". Say anything. Just add 'allegedly' in front of the statement and you are safe.
The news site didn't 'make him a rapist' - the Crown Prosecution Service did so by having him charged. Until charged he cannot be named in a newspaper by law.
For that matter, can surfers leave comments about their hosts?
When you look for a host, you would normally read their profile and look a their pictures to try and get an idea on the kind of person they may be. You check if they're verified and how many people vouched for them. Low numbers and not being verified may be enough reason to choose someone else, especially if traveling alone, though personally, everyone has to start somewhere, so if Im in a group, I don't care so much. People can meet couchsurfers for drinks or at events anyway as a way to "break in". Finally, I'd check the comments people left. Most people who read comments take negative comments pretty seriously, though obviously some people don't bother.
Over all, I think this works pretty well. The biggest danger would be to people who are using couchsurfing purely to get free accommodation, since they're unlikely to put as much effort into checking people out beforehand. Personally, I don't bother, unless I'm being hosted or they're hosting me - if its for a meeting or a drink, then I'll see what they're like when I meet them.
Obviously this system leaves plenty of room for problems.. Sadly its not too hard to misrepresent yourself. It seems extremely rare though, luckily.
Personally, I've never had ANY problems of any kind and ave not met any couchsurfers who have had any either. It does work - usually.
Honestly, I'm surprised we haven't seen this story earlier, or maybe stories about getting robbed, etc.
While I would love a society where trust is perhaps more freely given and received, we don't live in that kind of world.
A friend of mine was going to use AirBnB for an upcoming trip and I wondered out loud if your personal security was worth the savings.
I'd love to have faith in humanity, but current conditions don't necessarily warrant that at all.
Does your renter's or homeowner's insurance cover rental activity?
And nobody said a thing about making anything illegal. Straw man much?
The CS community is pretty big, and according to the stats page (http://www.couchsurfing.org/statistics.html), there have been over 1.3 million positive traveling experiences. Your argument seems to be projecting one negative anecdote against that entire dataset. Criminality rates in pretty much any city are far beyond 1/1.3M, so do you also feel we should restrain from all social contact?
If anything, i actually see CS in general as a perfect example that generalized fears of insecurity are typically misplaced, and that while it's useful to take precautions, you are only really punishing yourself by not being more open to all the different cultures and perspectives available for free at your doorstep.
If you use the service, you're taking a risk and you'll have to be aware of that. It doesn't really seem smart as a woman alone to go sleep on a couch of some guy you met on the net.
If it works for some people, great, but I thought the idea of CouchSurfing.com was insane the first time I heard of it.
I can't anymore, because my apartment is too small, but this time last year, I lived in a house with 4 other couchsurfers. We hosted people ALL THE TIME. I think over the 4 months that we hosted, we hosted 40 or so people. One weekend we hosted TWELVE people at once (there was an event on). Personally, I've NEVER had any problems and don't personally know anyone whos ever had problems. By now, I've met HUNDREDS of couchsurfers and have never heard of any personal bad experiences. Since we were all working too, often we weren't even at home. Often we gave people a key and let them come and go as they pleased and then hung out with them in the evenings. Not once did this cause problems. Never had anything stolen or broken, never had issues with privacy either (generally, people are quite considerate, if you want time alone).
Of course, I DONT have tens of thousands of dollars of tools and I don't have any firearms (besides airsoft guns) and I rarely have more than €100 in cash at home. I DO have computers though and laptops. I imagine the laptops would be the biggest target. But.. if I worry about something valuable, I lock it away.
Obviously there are risks and if you host someone or surf someone else's couch, you must be aware of the risks. Personally, I'm willing to take that risk - for me, the benefits are worth it. I've made tons of friends through couchsurfing and I find couchsurfers to be generally more open minded than others. I guess you have to be to share your home with strangers.
Couchsurfing is also not actually about free accommodation either. Its about a cultural exchange. About meeting people, making friends, learning something new. In this respect, I have found it to work exceptionally well.
Its sad when you hear of stories like this, though. It reminds you that there are bad people out there - and a site with as many members as couchsurfing is obviously going to have a few of these. I certainly hope theres not many, but I guess you never know for sure. I guess you need to be careful...
There are two possible angles to their motivation to mention this:
- this happened in Britain, but it involved two foreigners, it has nothing to do with 'us'
- Moroccans are all the same, here is the proof
It is interesting to note that some newspapers carefully elided this fact but published the rest of the story unchanged.
Whether or not he is muslim is cause for debate, nowhere does it say so. But hey, when you're inciting racial hatred facts are just so inconvenient.
While I'm sympathetic to the motives of those who want to suppress the race, nationality, or immigration status of the accused, this suppression itself inflames xenophobic sentiment in the long term ("we're victims of an anti-racist liberal media conspiracy!").
If some particularly strong riot-bait happened (e.g. the LAPD chase and beating of Rodney King), then I'd favor suppression if possible.
In the case of police brutality, especially when grounded in racism all the details should be as public as they can be made.
Also, some safety tips: http://www.couchsurfing.org/news.html?id=200