Ask HN: Can employers own my work for a year after I stop working (internship)?

These noncompetes are pretty standard, although they usually relate only to competing software / similar industries you may work on.

I once had an issue with one being too broad and asked for clarification and reduction of scope, they were happy to comply. They're mostly boilerplate and most places won't care / do anything with them, its usually just cover your ass stuff should some employee decide to rip-off their code base and sell it.

A year does seem a bit steep, not sure how it works there but here in oceania its usually around 6 months and limited by industry/market.

I'd also ask for them to remove the part about having to confirm IP ownership on everything you work on, its quite honestly none of their damn business.

Thats not bad... 1 year. I've seen 2-3 even 5 year non-competes.

If they are paying to make their product better not learn how to make a competing product. This is pretty standard.

However California is a "Right To Work" state and they can't keep you from working for a competitor. However, the next company you work for would also be liable if your stole IP from company 1. Just FYI... Knowledge of the Subject Matter OK... Specific Knowledge and Details of Products and Procedures Not OK.

From a legal point of view, the commenters below address some of the issues which obtain under these circumstances. But as a non-employed intern you are not going to be able to engage in substantive negotiations with them about the terms of a non-compete/trade secrets clause. You are not a headhunted executive, your negotiation position is different. There is great asymmetry in power in your negotiation. All you can do is sign, if you want this position. If an issue comes up later--if they even remember you six months after you leave, 18 months from now--deal with it then. Or have your new employer deal with it.

Companies are bending over backwards to claim that interns are not employees when in most cases they very much are, except for the payment of wages. It will be interesting to see how the "work for hire" copyright doctrine applies when on the one hand the intern-employing company says, "these guys just hang around, the school sends them, they're not employees" and on the other, "we are entitled to the code, processes and procedures they came up with during their time here."

There was an article a few months ago posted in HN about why it's worth it to take the risk in signing boilerplate. There are very few exceptions--one current dispute is the Hoefler/Frere Jones partnership dispute; one side maintains that an employment agreement that was signed by one of the partners is dispositive of their relationship.

Ultimately, six or twelve strangers (they call them 'jurors') will be dragged in off the street and asked to give their group opinion on the facts.

Your internship is very unlikely to require the intervention of these strangers, so don't worry. Try to learn everything you can.

IANAL but this is not a non-compete. This is simply a request/requirement for you to proactively inform them of what you're working on after you leave for a year.

Like most contracts, the question you should be asking is what happens if you breach the contract?

Well, if you're stealing IP, then they can come after you.

But they already can.

So, like pseingati said - go, learn, enjoy. Don't worry about the contracts, just be a good person and don't steal IP. They're paying you to work for them, and they own the things you produce while working for them.

If they're NOT paying you, as an intern, well, go work for them, then go talk to an employment attorney, because I think they have to.

Stop thinking like a techie. Start thinking like a business-person. As a business-person, do you think this clause is fair?

This is a paid internship, right?

I would be wary. The law already protects them if you use their IP. This is just bad, controlling company culture.

Please name and shame, if the company is that big they have sent a lot of these contracts out.

This isn't a noncompete, which would almost certainly not hold up, it's a shitty sentence designed to make you think it's a noncompete.

The reason a noncompete wouldn't work is that they aren't giving you anything in return. Your wages are paid for the work you put in, if they want a noncompete they will have to provide valuable consideration for it (a payment when you leave, stock, etc) and in many states there are significant limits to how much they can limit you.

> Would I be justified in asking them to remove this requirement?

Absolutely. Just cross out the line in the contract, initial it, and ask them to initial it as well. The worst they can do is deny your request to modify the contract. But it would be a totally normal thing to try.

Your next employer will probably ask you something like "Are you under any non-compete or similar agreement?" You will either have to lie to them or convince them that reporting what you're workin on is not a violation of their security policies etc.

Issue #1 - It could be a problem for your next employer, especially if your former employer sends them a legal threat letter.

Issue #2 - If it's a personal project, don't publish it until after you've stopped working there for a year.

However, given that it's a large corporation, it's probably a boilerplate contract and you aren't going to get anywhere if you try to negotiate that point.